Transgenderism and Christianity

5,615 Views | 121 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Ag_of_08
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BusterAg said:

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swimmerbabe11 said:

I'm not sure how one can be a Christian husband and father and transition to the fairer sex.
How is a Christian husband and father distinct from a Christian wife and mother?
There is a great deal of research and information about the importance of a father's role in parenting. Much of it is not religious in nature.

Young men need a man around to understand how to lead and still treat others with respect.

Young women need the male affirmation of a loving father to promote security and self-esteem. If they don't get it from their fathers, they find it in other places that are usually less beneficial.

Lots of studies indicating that many of the problems we face in our society today stems from absentee fathers.
Thanks, but I'm looking for distinctions. Christianity promotes the ideal, right? What role does a husband play that makes him distinct from a wife? Why can't the woman be the husband and vice/versa? Why can't the woman be the father instead of the mother?
Zobel
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AG
Honest question - do you have kids?

Biologically speaking there are, uh, "things" women do that men can't.
swimmerbabe11
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I would add sacrifice to lead...and comfort for women.
BusterAg
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AG
Create Account said:



Thanks, but I'm looking for distinctions. Christianity promotes the ideal, right? What role does a husband play that makes him distinct from a wife? Why can't the woman be the husband and vice/versa? Why can't the woman be the father instead of the mother?
Because, no matter how much people want to deny it, the brain of a male is biologically different than the brain of a female, and we process emotions differently.

As for directly what role to play, it is mostly affirmation. Make your daughter feel safe, valuable, important. How to do that is going to be different from person to person. But, a father figure can do this in a way that no one else can. The fact that a maturing female girl will seek out the affirmation and admiration of a male is just that, a fact, proven by science. There is a lot more to this than just cultural acceptance: there are millennia of hardwired tendencies, gallons of hormones and tons of subconscious processing that goes into it.

Believing that a male father figure can be easily replaced by something else, or is not important in the healthy emotional development of girls, is simply wishful thinking, and contrary to reams of psychological and sociological study on this topic.

Again, kids can be resilient, and parents are never, ever perfect, but, if you really want to prioritize your relationship with Christ first, your role as a father needs to take precedence over your desires to have other people consider you to be a girl.
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k2aggie07 said:

Honest question - do you have kids?

Biologically speaking there are, uh, "things" women do that men can't.
I have children. Biologically speaking, women give birth and nurse. Men provide sperm.

Christian marriage and parenting roles speaking...
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BusterAg said:

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Thanks, but I'm looking for distinctions. Christianity promotes the ideal, right? What role does a husband play that makes him distinct from a wife? Why can't the woman be the husband and vice/versa? Why can't the woman be the father instead of the mother?
Because, no matter how much people want to deny it, the brain of a male is biologically different than the brain of a female, and we process emotions differently.

As for directly what role to play, it is mostly affirmation. Make your daughter feel safe, valuable, important. How to do that is going to be different from person to person. But, a father figure can do this in a way that no one else can. The fact that a maturing female girl will seek out the affirmation and admiration of a male is just that, a fact, proven by science. There is a lot more to this than just cultural acceptance: there are millennia of hardwired tendencies, gallons of hormones and tons of subconscious processing that goes into it.

Believing that a male father figure can be easily replaced by something else, or is not important in the healthy emotional development of girls, is simply wishful thinking, and contrary to reams of psychological and sociological study on this topic.

Again, kids can be resilient, and parents are never, ever perfect, but, if you really want to prioritize your relationship with Christ first, your role as a father needs to take precedence over your desires to have other people consider you to be a girl.
I agree. You (or someone else) says that gender roles have become very fluid in our culture. Do you think this has hurt the maturity of females, given it is harder to distinguish what makes a male a male (i.e. what makes a father a father, and not a mother)?
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swimmerbabe11 said:

I would add sacrifice to lead...and comfort for women.
Sacrifice would need further distinction since both do that. True about comfort for women though. No kid runs to Dad when they bump their head. Happened just last night. My wife's hug is mysteriously better than mine and stopped our toddler's crying.
BusterAg
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AG
Create Account said:


I agree. You (or someone else) says that gender roles have become very fluid in our culture. Do you think this has hurt the maturity of females, given it is harder to distinguish what makes a male a male (i.e. what makes a father a father, and not a mother)?
There is a difference between what we are talking about as gender stereo types, and gender as part of family roles.

The man does not have to be the bread winner to be a good father. Nothing wrong with being the stay-at-home dad of a powerful executive woman. This makes the family dynamic a little different, but it does not have to change the parental roles.

Even in the above home with the CEO mom, if the man does not provide the role of the affirming father, the daughter is likely to find that male affirmation somewhere else. For some reason, it just seems to be an emotional necessity most of the time. It's where we are as a species.

You could argue that your happiness is more important than your obligations as a father. Fine, perfectly acceptable to weigh these two. Not Christ-like, though.
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I guess my question is, what does RetiredAg's friend need to do to no longer be a man? Assuming his affirmation remains the same, when does it cease being "fatherly" affirmation? Obviously I said earlier he should strive to be more manly, not less. What does that look like? What can he do to be more of a man, and not a woman?
BusterAg
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AG
Create Account said:

swimmerbabe11 said:

I would add sacrifice to lead...and comfort for women.
Sacrifice would need further distinction since both do that. True about comfort for women though. No kid runs to Dad when they bump their head. Happened just last night. My wife's hug is mysteriously better than mine and stopped our toddler's crying.
I think that sacrifice as seen here can be better understood as self-less leadership. Making the hard decisions that will produce the best outcome for the family in total, often to the detriment of yourself and your selfish ambitions.

I know it is a generalization, but self-actualization is often more important in men than in women. That often leads to assertiveness and leadership. However, balancing that with the needs of the family as a whole is being a good father.
Sapper Redux
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swimmerbabe11 said:

Depends on how you want them to be equal.
In blessings, in worths, in free will, in rights, they are equal, they complete each other. They are not however, interchangeable.


You seem to assume the male must be in charge because they are male.
BusterAg
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AG
Create Account said:

I guess my question is, what does RetiredAg's friend need to do to no longer be a man? Assuming his affirmation remains the same, when does it cease being "fatherly" affirmation? Obviously I said earlier he should strive to be more manly, not less. What does that look like? What can he do to be more of a man, and not a woman?
Again, a lot of this is in the sub-conscious processing and emotional development, with a whole host of Oedipus issues, etc. I'm not sure we know the answer to your question, precisely, though, as this phenomenon of fathers changing genders and remaining as part of the family is quite new.

If you believe that Freud was on the right track (which he often was), simply being a man that other women (who like men) might find sexually attractive in some way is probably enough. Masculine is masculine, and boys and girls know it when they see it. Simply be a man, and love and affirm your daughters. That's it.

I can't imagine that changing your name to a girls name, and asking to be called "her" wouldn't confuse this process quite a bit.
BusterAg
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AG
Dr. Watson said:

swimmerbabe11 said:

Depends on how you want them to be equal.
In blessings, in worths, in free will, in rights, they are equal, they complete each other. They are not however, interchangeable.


You seem to assume the male must be in charge because they are male.
I have met no husband that was more "in charge" of the family than the wife fancied. In my experience, it is the wife that sets the family dynamic, and not the other way around. If a man is really unhappy with the dynamic, his defense is typically to disengage, not fight back.
swimmerbabe11
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What does in charge mean? In Charge of what? As Buster said, a dad can still lead the household as a stay at home dad with a high powered exec as wife.

Leadership looks different in every home, every business, every walk of life. "In Charge" gets delegated often according to who has what strengths.
kurt vonnegut
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AG
swimmerbabe11 said:

A Christian husband is an icon of Christ. Meant to lead the family, guide, and love and sacrifice himself. Adam literally gave a rub to Eve. Christ literally died for the Church. This is the vocation of the husband, to protect, to care, to defend and die for his wife and household. The wife is the Icon of the Church. Her job is to respect, love, care for and provide a loving shelter for the husband. Adam gives his rib, his body to Eve...and Eve give Adam's body a peaceful home and returns life to Adam through childbearing.

Quote:

Depends on how you want them to be equal. In blessings, in worths, in free will, in rights, they are equal, they complete each other. They are not however, interchangeable.

The biological categorization of male and female seem to me to be very straightforward. The classification of what is a 'man' and what is a 'woman' or terms like 'masculine' and 'feminine' as a cultural or societal definition obviously seems to me to be a lot harder and likely influenced by your own individual biases.

I think that your posts above, to some extent, try to force an overlay of what a man is supposed to be uniformly to all males and what a woman is supposed to be uniformly on to all females. I think that it is impossible to put every person into one of two perfectly rigid boxes. The biology and range of experiences that contribute to our individual identities is all over the map.

While men and women may not be interchangeable, it is also true that women are not interchangeable with other women and men are not interchangeable with other men. We are all individual. Does a society that forces individuals to fit into one box or the other maximize the happiness, efficacy, or usefulness of its members?
Rusty Aha
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AG
This kind of reminds me of a "transaging" article I read from a little over a year ago. A husband and father of 7 decided he was actually a little girl that's six years old. Some might say he was derelict in fulfilling his duties to his wife and children, but it's actually somewhat beautiful. He.....err, she found a "mommy" and "daddy" to support him, she can now be BFFs with his former small children, and she is pretty much guaranteed to be the toughest girl in all lof K-5.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/transaging-father-leaves-wife-7-children-to-live-as-6-year-old-girl

PacifistAg
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AG
Staff,
Any chance we can lock this thread now? It's achieved it's purpose, and I'd prefer to avoid having it cluttered up with inflammatory trolls and insults, especially given the fact that we know there is at least one trans poster that has posted here.
Ag_of_08
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AG
I don't care tbh. There's at least two threads a week on the politics board ranting about trans people, that drag up outliers to try and make us look like degenerates, and get much uglier than this. The usual suspects haven't all even turned up yet.

If it's open this evening I'll try to type a reply to your ?. I got tied up with the scope last night
 
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