FYI, it was John Piper that gave this answer.

plot twist!

schmendeler said:

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plot twist!

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LOL I was curious if not knowing the name would lead to different responses. Of course, there's really no way of knowing how some would have responded had they known the name, but based on past discussions, it seems like people posted as I would have expected.

Back to comment on sex/contraception. Church teaching is pretty simple:

1) Sex is a wonderful and powerful gift from God. It is not to be taken lightly, it has powerful consequences.
2) Outcome of Sex is Life (Children)!
3) Don't have sex before marriage, get married, stay married (no divorce) and raise your children.
4) Avoid temptation- yes women are beautiful, don't look at porn. Admire beauty properly- like mother, daughter , sister.

The lie of the world is the opposite. Sex is fun (which is the truth, that sets up all the other lies. The Devil always tells you just enough truth to suck you in), there are no consequences with sex. Sex is too powerful of urge and cannnot be constained so immediately act on your urge (don't try and use self control). It is ok to look at porn, to lust after one another, to sleep around. Our role models show us the pursuit of pleasure- money, power, drugs and sex! If by chance you make a mistake with sex, just go to dr. and get a shot. And if it is a baby just kill it and eliminate the problem.

EnjoyYour Life and Just do it. ME, ME, ME - it is all about ME!

So, I have been away for a bit, back from vacation. Several thoughts on this thread:

1) If you are wondering whether or not God was responsible for something negative in your life, I submit that it was not God. If you look at the OT, there was never any question whatsoever whether or not God had a hand in the discipline he administered.** Were you swallowed by a whale? Hand writing on the wall? Dream of getting your feet crushed? There is no point in administering discipline unless the message is crystal clear. When God talks, he talks loudly, and he lets you know who is doing the talking.

2) For a pastor to waffle on this sucks big donkey dingus, I don't care who it was. Bad things happen. Miscarriages suck. The right answer to this is far from "this is within God's purview." The right answer is that God loves us and wants us to be happy, but he does not protect us from every instance of pain or evil that we will encounter. If someone else asked me whether or not something bad that had happened to them was God's punishment, I would ask them whether or not God had appeared to them and told them as much. Absent some supernatural signal that you really screwed up and were paying the price, I would not blame God. I think scripture supports that position.

3) People are quick to judge God and his justice during the OT, and slow to judge us as a race during the time of the OT. When you have tribes that are literally wiping each other out, taking the young girls (and maybe boys) for sport and fun, and killing everyone else, the world is a bit different. Float out all of the platitudes you want about innocent children, but realize that as a race, we were utterly vile once upon a time, and certain groups of us were more vile than others.

**Job is an interesting case, and I put this here preemptively. Nothing bad that happened to Job was due to the hand of God. The fact that God did not intercede to protect Job from evil was the entire point of the fable.

Quote:

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There is no point in administering discipline unless the message is crystal clear. When God talks, he talks loudly, and he lets you know who is doing the talking.

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Disagree- Would say God talks to us in a multitude of ways (one size does not fit all with God): directly,prayer, dreams, bible, through others, music, art and nature. Sometimes God whispers (famous passage with Elijah 1 King 19:12) and sometimes he is loud and clear (knocks us off our horse- St. Paul).

Quote:

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For a pastor to waffle on this sucks big donkey dingus, I don't care who it was. Bad things happen. Miscarriages suck. The right answer to this is far from "this is within God's purview." The right answer is that God loves us and wants us to be happy, but he does not protect us from every instance of pain or evil that we will encounter. If someone else asked me whether or not something bad that had happened to them was God's punishment, I would ask them whether or not God had appeared to them and told them as much. Absent some supernatural signal that you really screwed up and were paying the price, I would not blame God. I think scripture supports that position.

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I disagree just slightly with your point (agree with much of it). Don't think we can say it was not God who caused the miscarriage. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't? From the big picture God gives us life and calls us home (when it is our time). At the same time we also participate with God, so our actions also come into play. (Example- become an alcoholic- you may not live as long).

See book of Habbakuk, how God uses the evil Babylonians to exact justice on Jews. Consequences of actions. Note: if the Jews had been united they might of been able to fend off the atttack but their internal squabbling (sin weakened them).

Do agree God wants us to be happy, and thus he will use many things to push us to him: good things- blessings, family, friends, birth of loved ones, bad things- hardships, death, loss of job. And also our good and bad actions (sin) to guide us toward him. God lets us hit rock bottom so we will change our ways.

I think that it wasn't a helpful statement unless he, like Nathan, had the prophetic gift and he knew that such was the case. Otherwise, not helpful.

Yes
No
Maybe
Depends
Could be

>Thoughts?

It should be cooler in November