Maestro:

There are times in life when one's training is inadequate. This is a true statement.

I am reminded of the statements of my plastic surgeon friend. He stated, "I am trained in surgery but later focused upon cosmetics. It means I don't just focus upon head and neck, but general surgical techniques."

And there are times of confusion. As stated, my personal dialectic balances reason and faith, as two pedals on a bicycle, each propelling me forward as they tug against the other.

neither of you give christianity a bad name so don't worry about that. just keep fighting over your positions and status in LDS. you'll work it out eventually. one of you has to be above the other in the LDS scheme of things. it will probably come down to who knows more about endowment ceremonies or architecture.

Nice joke maestro, but revivalist's opinion of my christianity does little to impact me.

And G. Ag's affrontive nature is amazingly naive but perplexing. Whether G. Ag sits on councils is not what I'm about. I seek no authority, as with that comes responsibility. G. Ag can bother his parishioners as it were. I'll gladly let him have power and authority.

I think I'll go Tech Diving instead.

Your a tech diver too?

El Sid -The parable was not about the other workers or servants. I suppose you could liken them to those worthy of a telestial kindom inheitance but that is not the focus of the parable. We know that those who do not make themselves worthy of a celestial inheritance will, after paying the last farthing for refusing to repent and accept the restored gospel, will be ministering angels to those who are worthy of a more exceeding weight of glory.

Derrida -Like I said, you have no current temple recommend.

checkmate, genesis.

there is no Orthodox LDS. there is only LDS.

I would like to be. I noted your cool avatar. I want to do the Truk dive and wonder what the tech mix diving is like. (In other words, I haven't been deeper than 100). I don't believe I could do the narrow cave diving but drift diving is fun.

Have you ever been to the Red Sea?

Genesis you have no temple recommend like I said. You are an apostate because I said so. G. Ag is a fraud and an apostate, proclaim it from the rooftops.

Gee how persuasive is that?

[This message has been edited by Derrida (edited 1/10/2008 11:20a).]

derrida, do you have a temple recommend or not? I believe genesis does.

I don't believe he does. I believe he's a fraud.

And the question is offensive, as one who has been involved in the interview process. Anybody who is involved in the interview process doesn't make these sort of declarations. We hold this information to be sacred.

In Utah, certain morons believe their recommends represent credit references, which it doesn't.

By asking me the obvious, you're making an offensive assumption. And it's intellectually improper to dignify such an assumption.

Here's why, my views are a bit heterodox but that heterodox. My perspective challenges Genesis's orthodox perspective and the natural reaction is to challenge the "worthiness" of anybody who holds a different perspective. "Well heck, no good non-sinner could believe that, he must be an apostate."

That line of reasoning is so offensive it would rip the bar coding off my recommend. His narrow-mindedness makes me wish I weren't a member, but that means the bad guys such as Genesis win. And I don't want the frauds, the wannabes to win.

I suspect, he feels guilty because he doesn't hold one and believes most others are unworthy as well. My challenge is to be more patient with the ignorant, hatemongers of my clan. Genesis does NOT hold a recommend.

[This message has been edited by Derrida (edited 1/10/2008 11:30a).]

Texas velvet maestro --Not exactly. The revelation given to Joseph Smith does a wonderful job of describing the status of some Latter-day Saints.

D&C 121: 34-40
34 "Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson—
36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the p r i c k s, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen."

That captures it beautifully!

I think genesis does have a temple recommend.

and derrida, I'm afraid that you're a lot like the EXXON employee who works in a cubicle on the outskirts of the company and whines about global warming and saving the flowers. you're drawing a paycheck, but you'll never be promoted.

[This message has been edited by Texas velvet maestro (edited 1/10/2008 11:34a).]

Texas Velvet maestro -You are correct. I do and attend the Dallas Temple frequently.

Derrida, I am positive does not. He will not answer. He obfuscates. I doubt he is even active enough, assuming he is still a member, to even have a Church calling.

PS -that was a good insight that you offered on Derrida's status.

[This message has been edited by Genesisag (edited 1/10/2008 11:38a).]

you guys sure fight alot for being in the same church.

what does memorizing the endowment ceremony have anything to do with understanding its principles? it seems similar to memorizing scriptures must mean one understands them.

Maestro, I don't even understand where you're coming from at the current time.

Genesis: We'll see. If you attend a session during midday, how many fellow attendees will you see typically within the Dallas Temple?

And what sized temple is it?

Well Genesis a pure horse's patouche?

And Maestro, I'm an independent business operator and consultant, so I don't get your drift. There are those within our ranks that fight for intellectual right of free thought, against the dingdongs like wannabes such as Genesis.

derrida, I'm coming from place where people like me hate to see thoughtful people like you caught up in a ham fisted corporate system that only holds disdain for people like you. honestly, I respect you and only wish you the best.

Back to the real discussion....

ibmagg, for what purpose did Jesus tell the parable of the workers in the field? What was the point of the parable?

sorry, sid, to distract.
your questions are awesome and the answers you've recieved so far are telling. keep up the good work.

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for what purpose did Jesus tell the parable of the workers in the field? What was the point of the parable?

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[This message has been edited by Texas velvet maestro (edited 1/10/2008 1:06p).]

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I would like to be. I noted your cool avatar. I want to do the Truk dive and wonder what the tech mix diving is like. (In other words, I haven't been deeper than 100). I don't believe I could do the narrow cave diving but drift diving is fun.

Have you ever been to the Red Sea?

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Truk and the Red Sea are very high on my list. Haven't been to either place. Done lots of caves in Mexico, and some tropical islands, but Truk and the Red Sea are calling. Loudly. The huge majority of my diving has been in the Pacific Northwest.

Mix is awesome. You have no idea how narked you are at 100 feet on air until you've been there on mix. Danged helium is expensive though, and comes out of solution a LOT more quickly than nitrogen, so the training is worthwhile if you're gonna go there.

Technical diving, however, is kinda like owning a machine gun. There's no point in having it unless you have a specific need for it... otherwise, it's just dangerous.

Tech:

Sounds great. I've done reading on the world deep diving records and it sounds whacked out to do the helium mixes. Mostly I just go tropical with the family staying safe and seeing lots of interesting marine life.

Several friends and clients have told me that Truk is where it's at, and the Red Sea is also awesome.