**** /the social dilemma_ - Netflix ****

7,146 Views | 73 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by YouBet
imjustsayin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
This is a (so far) fascinating and somewhat disturbing docu-drama on the effects (intended or un-intended, depending on who you ask, I guess) of the big tech companies on driving societal behaviors and the apparent damage it is doing to the civil society.

To be clear, I've only started this but the trailer was highly compelling and the first 30 minutes are just as riveting, in my opinion. (Got tired, I'm old, will finish tonight)

I've long thought that we as a society need to be much more disciplined than we are on the use of technology as a form of social life and allowing it to affect us.

I don't want this string to turn into a hot debate, but hopefully it will yield some interesting discussion and perhaps more importantly, some awareness of the potential dangers of over-using technology as an "input" into our daily lives.

The cast is made up of former highly influential tech company leaders from google, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter, and so much more... it's definitely worth exploring.
Pepper Brooks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My wife and I have been talking about getting off social media for a while now and we pulled the trigger after watching this. There is a ton of truth in it and being terrified after watching it is the correct response IMO.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I found it riveting. I've ghostwritten one book about Big Data and how it's being abused, and I'm writing another one now. No matter what way you lean on issues, it's a must watch to see the drug they've got us all addicted to. Is particularly an eye opener as a parent. Lots of choices and conversations to come on how to handle it.

I loved how much they showed the people getting interviewed continuing to check their phones and type and text even as they condemn it all. The addiction viewed from an outside perspective is staggering.
redd38
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I actually don't have a big problem with the issues that were raised in the documentary. I have other problems with social media, primarily the globalised nature of it (I see posts from all over the world instead of just my circle) and fakeness of it (people present a idealized version of themselves). So people, especially young people, compare their actual life to idealized version of people's lives from all over the world. It's not healthy.
The Milkman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
We've been looking forward to watching this, glad to hear its as good as I'd hoped.

I have never taken issue with big data or the idea that my habits and activity are being tracked. I'm not overly protective about privacy or anything like that, but I think social media is very damaging to society as others have said. The obsession and addiction, the constant ego stroking, the need for attention and creation of influencers etc is what I wish could be wiped from earth
Pepper Brooks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The impact to young people and how to raise kids around social media is probably the most concerning and discussed topic in our household since watching this.

I grew up with parents who gave out a lot of freedom until we abused/showed we didn't deserve it and always thought I'd take that approach with my kids. I'm worried the potential harm to said kids may outweigh my desire to let them figure it out and provide corrections they they get out of their depth. My initial reaction is to ban social media for our kids and restrict smart phone ownership until they leave the house. I worry that my kids will rebel if we take this approach and that they won't know how to exist in the world they walk out into after they leave the nest.

We're have a few years before this topic comes up with our kids but I'd love to hear ideas about how to raise kids in the age of Facebook/IG/twitter.
imjustsayin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
My sister in law took the approach with their middle school aged kids of no phone until middle school and even then, only a "dumb" flip phone... which they hated. But it killed the argument of "I need a phone to call for emergencies, etc". The daughter, now a freshman got her first "smart" phone.

I don't know what restrictions they have on it as far as it's use but I'm sure they have plenty on it.

I have another friend whose kid has a smart phone but every time they open up an app (as id'd by the parents) it sends a code to the parents and the parents have to authorize the apps use by sending the kid the code.

The part that is daunting to me aside from the content is how to be an IT expert to outsmart the kid from doing stupid stuff. Wife and I were just talking about this last night.... it may not completely stop the child from making stupid phone decisions, but it would at least put some barriers that would have to be overcome before they could get into deep waters.

No easy answers or recipes I'm afraid. Just diligent and very aware parents... parents who understand their role is a parent, not a "buddy".
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Diary of a Wimpy Kid solves the problem of how to handle your kids wanting a smartphone.

My Dad Earl
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I thought it was a fascinating documentary as well. I've never taken issue with these companies tracking my habits and advertising accordingly. As one person said in the documentary, that has been the target of the advertising industry for decades (although not to the level we see today).

I am much more concerned about the addictive features these companies are putting on their programs. I even saw this play out in my own life when I would go home and instead of being present with my wife and kids, I would open my phone and start scrolling whatever app had my interest. I've since deleted all social media off my phone. Even today, we'll be "watching" a game or show on TV, and people I'm with are on their phones the whole time and not paying attention. It's really concerning.
Psychag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I work in a high school and one of my roles is as a counselor. The Anxiety and Depression these kids experience is no joke, as they are constantly being evaluated and judged by others. Cyber bullying through Social Media is scary and real. Not to mention they're constantly measuring their lives to the unrealistic perfections / expectations being portrayed on social media. I'm grateful I was not evaluated for all to see 24/7 365.
Complete Idiot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Is this documentary age appropriate for kids ages 10 and up? Would like to watch it as a family.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Complete Idiot said:

Is this documentary age appropriate for kids ages 10 and up? Would like to watch it as a family.
I would say yes. My kids are 8 and did not watch it, but I felt they could have with proper guidance. The youngest sibling in the drama component of the show is around 11 and she's struggling with depression when someone mocks one of her photos on what is supposed to be IG.

Perhaps watch it yourself first to make sure it fits your parenting parameters. It's about 1 hour 40 minutes.
AggieChemist
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I deleted Facebook last week because I felt it was feeding all of the worst parts of me. The addiction and dopamine chasing is real. Then I watched this last night and it just reinforced that I had made the right decision.
Complete Idiot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
That was actually my plan but was being lazy and hoping I could save my time.

We have had screen bedtime and total use limits on their devices in the past, when the pandemic hit I lifted the usage, not bedtime (but made it a bit later), limits because I felt bad for them being isolated and thought it would help. As one might expect, they've all really increased their usage, to the extent I'd consider my two daughters almost addicted to using their devices. But of the three kids I'd say two have handled it fine, with the worst of those two being "too much use", and I'm about to turn the limits back on - way overdue, parenting fail. But, I am concerned about my middle kid, daughter aged 11, who I discovered has gotten into some inappropriate stuff on an app called Discord. I also noticed she has seemed withdrawn and changed for much of the lockdown period, although it has improved with in person school and soccer having started up in the past month.

I'm hoping the documentary scares everyone in the family a bit, I'm guilty of screen addiction as well.
Pepper Brooks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Have you interacted with current/former students who were not on social media? If so, were they ostracized or did they seem more balanced than their tic tocing counterparts?
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AggieChemist said:

I deleted Facebook last week because I felt it was feeding all of the worst parts of me. The addiction and dopamine chasing is real. Then I watched this last night and it just reinforced that I had made the right decision.
After watching it , my wife and I were typing different search terms into our desktop computers in the office and seeing how varied the results came up on Google. It was staggering.
imjustsayin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think this needs to be aired in all high school classrooms. This is crazy!!
Complete Idiot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Well, the documentary confirmed things I've been thinking for a long time. I just didn't know enough to understand how things got to where they are, I blamed human nature more than I should have and overt manipulation by software less. As a 48 year old I am lucky to have lived my formative years before the internet, certainly before social media, so it gives me a better perspective than those that only know the recent reality - like my children. The division in societies, the extremism in societies, the lack of discourse - all of which have hugely increased over the past 20 years - was not AT ALL predicted by me. Back in the 90's and early 2000's I in fact would have predicted the opposite. I assumed that as more people were put in contact with each other - people from different cultures, countries, socioeconomic backgrounds, etc - it would bring people together because myths and rumors about some people with a certain background would erode as you actually got to know those people. I also thought that widespread access to facts for all people would also improve society, we'd all have the same facts at our disposal and because most people are good people we'd have more ability to converse and reach good decisions for our current lives and the future. I've been proven very wrong, and this documentary shows how it has occurred - but in recent years I've seen it first hand. The feeding of curated "facts", just reaffirming and amping up some belief you thought you had, does not lead to growth and does not lean to more people in the middle/grey area of any topic or discussion. It forces people to the edges of the extreme. And that's no more obvious than in political discourse, as seen on the Politics forum on Texags or really anywhere Politics are discussed. Very, very few people willing to discuss the grey areas of complex topics, to be able to at least understand to some degree the arguments on both sides of that topic. When I find someone who does have a moderate approach and says things like "I do appreciate the other view point on this topic, in facts points X and Y are persuasive, but here are points 1 through 10 that leads me to think this way...." I get gleeful, even if their final conclusion may be different than mine. Because they can have a conversation, they have considered both sides, and maybe I can learn from that person. But the documentary shows its not just big topics like politics or policy, but personal topics like approval and self worth. I haven't had a good feeling about the future for a while and the documentary did not help, despite the measured optimism of some of the participants.
Complete Idiot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Please share and like my post.
Psychag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I rarely interact with former students. I just know this is a very real concern that I have noticed especially over the last 5-10 years.
KidDoc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm advising many families of patients to watch this in my pediatric practice. Addiction to social media is rampant and destructive. It is not empirically evil or bad but exposing children to this level of sharing is destructive. I do think it has had a significant impact in mood disorders, suicides, sleep issues, and general lack of intelligent discourse.

As an adult I use it sparingly and mostly for fun and seeing pictures or people having fun. I generally ignore the "news" and political junk in FB.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
double aught
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
KidDoc said:



As an adult I use it sparingly and mostly for fun and seeing pictures or people having fun. I generally ignore the "news" and political junk in FB.
I'm this way too. I feel like I use social media responsibly. But I wonder if it still has a negative effect on me. I worry for my daughters as they get older.

Haven't seen the show yet though.
lazuras_dc
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

also thought that widespread access to facts for all people would also improve society, we'd all have the same facts at our disposal and because most people are good people ...


Who knew that having all of human knowledge at our fingertips would make us DUMBER

Yes this documentary basically reinforced my existing opinions. I had already taken IG and FB off my phone as part of my New Years resolution and only really check FB at work (go figure). But it's been replaced by a Texags addiction. Not sure what's worse.
Fat Bib Fortuna
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The thing I find most troubling without going off the deep end is that as much as it's the technology, it's really us doing it to ourselves, and I can't help but think if newspapers or radio or TV had had this technology 200, 100, 50, 25 years ago, wouldn't they have done the exact same thing?

Concocted whatever they could to control as much of our attention as possible because that translated into advertising dollars?

If that's the case then this feels like just the beginning.
imjustsayin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
To me, the most important thing this does is inform society of the dangers of misuse and the tools used against them to impact their decisions. Being wise to that will help you to stop scrolling when you feel it pulling on you.

I've long said these technologies are tools, and can be used for good or bad... but as one of the persons interviewed said, a tool, if not used sits lifeless. But this is programmed to demand your attention and manipulate you into feeding it more attention.

The addiction risk here is very real and Knowing it's risk will help many parents and kids alike to recognize they are being manipulated and reject it.

I for one hope this gets viewed by EVERYONE. We all need to know how we are being played.

I agree that some level of connected life and tracking me has not bothered me as an individual. But I can DEFINITELY, see the damage it's doing on society and sadly young people whose social lives and "value" exist almost exclusively through technology. And I can see how civil discourse, which is critical to co-existence, has been eroded at an exponential pace.
imjustsayin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
For those stumbling in and not knowing what this is about.

Complete Idiot
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Watched this as a family last night, as mentioned before I had relaxed screen time limits when the pandemic started and after 6 months of being "the cool dad" it had taken a toll - my kids changed their activities and became a bit addicted. Most concerns about our middle kid, daughter aged 11. In fact, during dinner we said "hey we are going to watch a movie as a family, it's about social media and some of the downsides of it and phone addiction" and the middle kid had a reaction straight out of the movie - said thats dumb, she didn't want to, everyone is online in her generation we just don't understand, etc. I said no, we are all going to watch it it's not optional - shoves her plates, spills her drink, a little fit. Really galvanized our decision to watch and to start putting limits back on usage.

Well, we all watched it, after a few minutes she started paying attention, and afterwards she said "that wasn't bad it was pretty good, not what I thought it was going to be, I'm sorry I lost my temper" - gave me a hug. SHe's generally not an apologizer or a hugger but is a good kid. Some of it got through and when we've been asking her a lot of questions about what she uses and with who she does talk pretty openly about what she is doing, not really hiding anything, which is a positive. Our concerns have been specifically around use of an app called Discord, which is used to interact to people in text or voice chat and for her mostly when playing ROblox. But as with any community, there are lots of weird people and lots of hidden dangers for an 11 year old, topics she should not be exposed to. She's also an artist and into watching Anime and some of that content is for 11 year olds either. Tough balance between trusting her and protecting her.

The 14 year old got it but didn't seem bothered in the least, the just turned 10 year old said some of it was hard to follow - it is aimed at adults really, in his defense.

That was a parenting aside, back to the documentary - I hope all who question some of our technology, how we are using it, maybe question their own usage or that of their kids, do watch the movie and get something from it. It made an impact on me.
Funky Winkerbean
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AggieChemist said:

I deleted Facebook last week because I felt it was feeding all of the worst parts of me. The addiction and dopamine chasing is real. Then I watched this last night and it just reinforced that I had made the right decision.


Sunday is my last day for these same reasons. Social media is a cancer.
It is so easy to be wrong—and to persist in being wrong—when the costs of being wrong are paid by others.
Thomas Sowell
The Milkman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The point that really struck the strongest with me that I had never considered before was that everything we think about AI is a fear that they would overcome our strengths. Take our jobs etc. But this is AI overcoming our weaknesses, and sending us into addiction. It is so true and really made me take a step back.
Marauder Blue 6
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Complete Idiot said:

And that's no more obvious than in political discourse, as seen on the Politics forum on Texags or really anywhere Politics are discussed. Very, very few people willing to discuss the grey areas of complex topics, to be able to at least understand to some degree the arguments on both sides of that topic. When I find someone who does have a moderate approach and says things like "I do appreciate the other view point on this topic, in facts points X and Y are persuasive, but here are points 1 through 10 that leads me to think this way...." I get gleeful, even if their final conclusion may be different than mine. Because they can have a conversation, they have considered both sides, and maybe I can learn from that person.


I can't help but wonder where we'd be today if social media were never a part of politics. The extremism is it has fed on all sides is history-altering, and not in a good way. Of course, we'd still have cable news.
West Point Aggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Giving up SM is the best thing I did about 7 years ago...I guess texags is about it...
Post removed:
by user
cp2011
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
MuckRaker96 said:

AggieChemist said:

I deleted Facebook last week because I felt it was feeding all of the worst parts of me. The addiction and dopamine chasing is real. Then I watched this last night and it just reinforced that I had made the right decision.
After watching it , my wife and I were typing different search terms into our desktop computers in the office and seeing how varied the results came up on Google. It was staggering.
If you really want to see whose worldview you're being subjected to try a google image search for "white couple" and count the number of images that return what you asked for before showing you what they thought you meant
G Martin 87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
The Milkman said:

The point that really struck the strongest with me that I had never considered before was that everything we think about AI is a fear that they would overcome our strengths. Take our jobs etc. But this is AI overcoming our weaknesses, and sending us into addiction. It is so true and really made me take a step back.
I thought The Social Dilemma didn't go far enough in demonstrating the significance of AI in intentionally building increasingly effective addiction strategies. The truth is that AI has learned how to get humans hooked. The developers don't control it anymore. This TED talk hammers that point, and it's from 2017.

Last Page
Page 1 of 3
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.