Westworld 3 - 2020

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TCTTS
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AG

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/westworld-season-finale-dolores-season-4-1234597532/


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-season-3-finale-explained-jonathan-nolan-lisa-joy-season-four-beyond-1293162/


https://deadline.com/2020/05/westworld-season-3-finale-jonathan-nolan-interview-man-in-black-dolores-bernard-spoilers-1202925660/
TCTTS
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A lot of good tidbits between these three interviews. Here are some of the highlights, though I recommend reading each interview in its entirety (they're all pretty short)...

- Westworld will completely reinvent itself yet again for season four, as has been the goal every season. Where season four goes has been mapped out from the beginning.

- Dolores Prime is 100% dead. That said, it is strongly hinted that Evan Rachel Wood will be back.

- From the sound of it, Ed Harris as the host version of the Man In Black will have a sizable role in season four.

- On the remaining cast a whole, we should "anticipate seeing some or many of these faces in very different circumstances, and very different relationships" in season four.

- Nolan & co are interested in the idea of the Sublime being a true "alternate universe." We'll see characters we "know and love" there via Bernard's journey.

- There has never been a specific number of seasons planned, only specific "chapters" planned, but they don't yet know how many seasons that equates to. Nolan & co don't want to say goodbye to this cast and crew, but they also don't want the show to wear out its welcome. It sounds like planning for the end game will also go hand-in-hand with the writing of season four. All that said, my guess is that the show ends after five seasons, not six.
TCTTS
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Based on all of this, if I had to give my way-too-early-and-almost-assuredly-wrong prediction for season four, it would be that it takes place on two timelines...

1) The Real World, but with a decent enough time jump that allows the world to be and feel quite different from the real world of season three. Aaron Paul has said he's coming back for season four, and since his character is obviously human, they can't jump too far into the future. But I think we'll jump ahead enough as to allow this timeline to feel like a different genre of sorts. Maybe post-apocalyptic?

2) The Sublime, which has likely evolved significantly. This is where I see the most potential, and the most opportunity for something truly unique; like an alternate history of sorts where the world evolved with hosts instead of humans. Like, half Westworld season one (in terms of look/vibe) and half whatever these writers can dream up - some kind of weird sci-fi something or other mixed with the Old West.

Again, I'm probably way off, but the clues provided from those interviews are pretty interesting.
TCTTS
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I've been listening to the season three soundtrack today, and I have to say, this one of my favorite scores - TV or movie - of the past five years or so. The "Rehoboam" track - that eerie theme that plays every time we see the divergence circle - is just so instantly memorable. That, and I'm glad to finally have Djawadi's "Doomed" cover as well. The whole soundtrack just has this awesome, Blade Runner-esque vibe, but is different enough to be its own thing as well. I also just realized they never used Djawadi's cover of "Sweet Child O' Mine" in the show itself, which is odd. It was such a big part of the trailer that I thought for sure they'd use it in the show, like they have all the other covers.
TCTTS
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Brian Earl Spilner
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That little Rehoboam theme was awesome, my favorite part of this season's soundtrack.
Jim01
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I might have to revisit it some time, but after the initial viewing I thought this was easily the worst of the 3 seasons. It just didn't connect with me in any way, shape, or form. The dialog was outright bad at times and I didn't care about any of the mysteries.

It wasn't horrible. In between episodes I would occasionally read stuff on here about connections like "Isn't it cool how the patterns of this shot match this etc." and would talk myself back into it, but then Sunday would come and I would just consistently be underwhelmed and find myself not engaged.
Hullabaloonatic
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What a disaster. It's like John Nolan was so caught up in trying to make a complex and DEEP show that he forgot to make it a good show.

The amount of overwrought symbology at the expense of basic plot sense was hilarious. How this is getting ANOTHER season is insane to me.
cbr
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Just a reminder in case anyome isnt aware - cia and darpa engaged in a top secret data mining project to document behavior and users of video games, including world of warcraft - which was also being used for supposedly secret communications by lots of groups, some of which were very nefarious.

This show is not that far out in front of reality.
MBAR
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cbr said:

Just a reminder in case anyome isnt aware - cia and darpa engaged in a top secret data mining project to document behavior and users of video games, including world of warcraft - which was also being used for supposedly secret communications by lots of groups, some of which were very nefarious.

This show is not that far out in front of reality.
Bro what do you think Google and Facebook are doing. lol. Dataminng behavior is the #1 thing the internet is for ATTM.
BigDawg87
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cbr said:

Just a reminder in case anyome isnt aware - cia and darpa engaged in a top secret data mining project to document behavior and users of video games, including world of warcraft - which was also being used for supposedly secret communications by lots of groups, some of which were very nefarious.

This show is not that far out in front of reality.
Let's do this LEEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOY JEEEEEENKIIIIIIIIIIINS!
NASAg03
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I think you're right with the post-apocalyotic future world. Solomon and Rehoboam gradually controlled society over many decades, only for it to fall apart in months. The entire structure of society has collapsed.

I'm envisioning Mad Max with MIB, which would be badass.

As for Sublime, I'm thinking no more Wild West (that's too much like Mad Max). It's gotta be something totally different. Maybe the shire. Maybe medieval world. Something also totally different. Gotta be heavenly. Can't imagine what that's like.

But imagine when MIB goes bounty hunting in the Sublime. Chaos to their perfect world, especially if the Sublime hosts don't realize MIB turned into a host.
Mike Shaw - Class of '03
amercer
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Having the actual human MIB for a mad max future would have been so much better though. I don't really care about the robot one.
NASAg03
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Interesting design choice for Ikea...



https://www.inspiremore.com/ikea-growroom-feeds-entire-neighborhood/
Mike Shaw - Class of '03
NASAg03
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amercer said:

Having the actual human MIB for a mad max future would have been so much better though. I don't really care about the robot one.


But he's the same person, only updated like terminator. And they waited to kill him until he learned from his childhood and everything else. Also crazy that they took all that other data from him in Westworld and merged it with real world data from his time in rehab.
Mike Shaw - Class of '03
amercer
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Sure, we can go with that I guess.

I'm a little bummed about how little I care about the next season. Maybe in 2 years my enthusiasm will return.
TV Casualty
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I'm not a fan of what they did with William.

I guess we will have to wait to see if Robo-William has the same continuity issues that Charlores had. Could be interesting if he starts fixating on Emily and his Wife again.
Trucker 96
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Put me in the camp that thinks this show hit a wall and that this season was a shell of what it once was. I actually had to watch the final episode over 3 different sittings because I fell asleep in the first two attempts
Teddy Perkins
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Concise review.
oragator
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Season 3 has a a 78 on RT and around an 8.5 on IMDB if you average the episodes. It's not the greatest thing ever put on TV,, but it's not nearly as bad as this thread is trending. Kinda feels like a mob is forming.
People are entitled to their opinions, but I might have to stay away from this thread until we get close to the new season and it's more anticipation again than critique. It's hard to enjoy something when you come here and see people almost looking for reasons to put it down.

So will see you in 2 years or so .
TCTTS
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I try to critique intelligently, with objectiveness, and always say something positive as well. For the most part, it feels like others here are doing the same. It's the "LOL disaster!" posts that I can't stand, that quickly turn a thread insufferable. Hopefully we can refrain from going down that road any further...
Trucker 96
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Positive - Aaron Paul's hair plugs have come in nicely
Jim01
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Really because all episode I kept having this image in my head.

Hullabaloonatic
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TCTTS said:

I try to critique intelligently, with objectiveness, and always say something positive as well. For the most part, it feels like others here are doing the same. It's the "LOL disaster!" posts that I can't stand, that quickly turn a thread insufferable. Hopefully we can refrain from going down that road any further...
Haha not so subtle shot. Hey, I tried to like it. I even refrained from forming any judgment until I saw the finale. It's not like I've been dumping on this show every week.

You wan't some positives? The visuals were stunning....that's about it. I'm not tying to be glib, but a show with this budget and cast shouldn't struggle as much as it did to make any sort of cohesive sense. I have no idea what the character motivations were, there's 0 emotional stakes (as anyone who dies is somehow resurrected/cloned/simulated), and the dialogue was really really wanting.

"LOL disaster" may be too harsh so how about this instead: $ for $, the show was extremely disappointing and failed to live up to the entertainment bar that HBO Sunday matinees usually meet.
TCTTS
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That's all fair! And I agree with basically everything you said. I love this kind of back and forth, and can more easily respect opinions, no matter the opinion, when context is provided. All I ask is that people explain their opinions, even minimally. Otherwise, the drive-by "trash" and "disaster" posts do nothing but drive people like oragator away.
Trucker 96
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Jim01 said:

Really because all episode I kept having this image in my head.


LOL. Me too, but I was trying to be nice
Trucker 96
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Quote:

I have no idea what the character motivations were, there's 0 emotional stakes (as anyone who dies is somehow resurrected/cloned/simulated), and the dialogue was really really wanting.
Agree 1000% on all counts
bobinator
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I think perhaps the biggest flaw this season from a writing standpoint was not having us more deeply involved with any human characters.

It would have been good to maybe have some characters, or at least A character, that the system worked FOR, rather than against. To create some conflict over why resetting the whole system could be a bad idea. Maybe most people really were happy with their lives, and maybe the lives of people that the system keeps down are better than the lives of people now.

We didn't really get any of that at all. So there were no stakes at all for them sending everyone's data out to them or for COMPLETELY WIPING OUT THE AI THAT KEEPS ALL OF SOCIETY INTACT.

The closest thing we came to caring about any human other than Caleb is when Marshawn Lynch got shot which is a WILD thing to say about a television show.
TCTTS
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That's a great point. Yeah, I needed more of a how-this-is-truly-affecting-society angle/character, outside of characters simply talking about it, and seeing random extras rioting in the background.
Thomas Ford 91
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1) I have decades owned the London Philharmonic version of Dark Side of the Moon, so I got a Pink Floyd boner 3 notes in.

2) Suppose you're a motel housekeeper. You knock, no response. Open the door. There's a large black man sitting on the bed and a bleeding white man in the tub. What do you do? The answer explains how this could have lasted a very long time.

3) Why do we believe the William that walks into Dubai Delos is the real William?

4) Agree with the podcast, is the bar so low that we put our trust in the guy that doesn't rape the sex robots?
TCTTS
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Thomas Ford 91 said:

1) I have decades owned the London Philharmonic version of Dark Side of the Moon, so I got a Pink Floyd boner 3 notes in.

2) Suppose you're a motel housekeeper. You knock, no response. Open the door. There's a large black man sitting on the bed and a bleeding white man in the tub. What do you do? The answer explains how this could have lasted a very long time.
This response literally made me laugh out loud. Though, in all seriousness, based on vague hints by Nolan & co, along with reddit speculation, it sounds like something terrible goes down - like a nuclear bomb potentially, or something along those line - that might keep people from that area or from ever entering that room again. I hadn't thought of that.

3) Why do we believe the William that walks into Dubai Delos is the real William?
Nolan & co confirmed that was the real William and that the real William is, indeed, dead.

4) Agree with the podcast, is the bar so low that we put our trust in the guy that doesn't rape the sex robots?
This might sound terrible, but I've honestly never quite understood the idea of Dolores being so upset with park guests for beating/raping her or hosts in general. I of course understand the trauma she experienced and empathize with her as a character in that regard. But no one responsible for her existence/maintenance, save for Ford, had any idea she was sentient or could even retain trauma. And guests aren't going to think twice if management isn't either. Like, are we also supposed to anticipate that the sock we jerked off into in high school is now traumatized by that experience? Should I be wary that the punching bag I once hit at the gym wants to exact revenge on me? Otherwise, I don't get the blaming-of-guests for riding the rides, so to speak. A) that's what she was designed for, and B) no one knew the hosts were "alive." If there was even an inkling of host sentience, Westworld would have gone out of business in a heartbeat, and all kinds of host activist groups would have risen up. In other words, even outside of serving as a lame plot device, I don't understand Caleb's actions on a practical level either. At the time, given the general understanding of host tech, it would be like someone saying, "Hey, guys, we shouldn't have sex with the sex dolls that were created for us to have sex with. Shame on you." What? If anything, the option to have sex with perfectly life-like, but non-sentient hosts would likely all but eliminate human sex trafficking, human rape, etc, and would be considered a societal plus, not a negative.[/tangent]
ExpressAg11
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I couldn't agree more about your response to #4. All those guests didn't know that the hosts had emotions and realized what was going on. It would be like carjacking someone on Grand Theft Auto, then suddenly finding out that that person somehow had human emotions and you ruined their life.
TCTTS
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Ha, exactly.
amercer
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Funny personal perspective. I like to bond with my 8 year old son over video games. I finally beat BOTW last week #coronagoals .

He's an 8 year old boy though, so a lot of his game time is spent just blowing **** up. Zelda is the most realistic game we play (he can buy himself call of duty 27 when he's old enough), but when he decides to **** with NPCs, it definitely triggers a "knock it off" from me.

I think one of the points of the show in the first season is that the inhumanity shown to robots that are so well designed that you forget they are robots, dulls your senses to inhumanity against real humans.

So like I posted a couple pages back, it's pretty dumb that the Delores/Caleb backstory is "hey you didn't rape me so I picked you to save humanity". But raping robots still isn't cool.
 
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