Its interesting because now that I read that Leia hugging Rey in the trailer is taken from TFA also, albeit an alternate shot of her hugging Rey at the end of the movie. The ring is the same and Rey's hair is the same, etc.

Did a new trailer just drop and I not find out here first....

Huh?

No.

Sine poena nulla lex.

WB did recently confirm that they'll be back in 2020, but yeah, all good points. Crazy how not only so many studios are dropping out, but how many tried and true Comic-Con franchises are naturally ending as well.

Sine poena nulla lex.

This...

https://uproxx.com/hitfix/new-star-wars-movies-resistance-first-order/

One of the things I'm most looking forward to in The Mandalorian is seeing how the outer edges of the galaxy were actually affected (or how little they were affected) by the fall of the Empire.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I will say that one of my major complaints, which I'm sure most people don't agree with, is I would have like to see the New Republic actually functioning, in some capacity, before it was destroyed. Maybe one single Senate scene would've been good.

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It was there, but cut. I suspect that's some of the footage we'll see repurposed in TROS.

Do we know all of that from the actual movies? I need to rewatch, because while I agree, I'm positive that I am making a lot of assumptions based on discussion / seeing people discuss other media.

And I get that the First Order is the remnants of the Empire, slowly built up power, etc. But they seemingly have MORE money/resources than the Empire ever did, yet they're somehow smaller and aren't enough of a threat to warrant legit military action from the Republic? My biggest complaint, same as the article, is that there's just no context. We have no idea how big/small they are. It felt like for sure they were all but decimated at the end of TFA, but no, they're seemingly stronger than ever in TLJ and somehow on the attack again as that movie starts.

Also, it makes no sense whatsoever why the Republic wouldn't just, you know, use their military to fight The First Order, which is clearly a massive threat. Why does Leia have to form this non-sanctioned off-shoot to fight them all on her own?

the scale seems much smaller in Episodes 7-8. Doesn't help that TLJ showed only a handful of ships chasing down the resistance without calling in reinforcements to cut off routes rather than waiting for them to run out of gas. It would be like a police chase with a few cruisers intent on waiting for the suspect to run out of gas rather than take a few steps to get them.
Also at the end, what remains of the resistance fits inside the falcon.
dammit you made me criticize TLJ again and I wasn't planning on it.

I hope JJ reintroduces the large scale while focusing in the inner resistance group and Kylo and his Rens.

Not that I think that they will continue with this since it was so hated, but I think part of the whole Canto Bright sub plot was that most of the Galaxy didn't really care about the FO or the Resistance. Both forces could be pretty small compared to the ones in the OT. The FO has more reach because it's taped into the criminal syndicates much as the Empire did, where as the Resistance is very isolated from every other faction in the Galaxy.

Does it have to be large scale? I see it more like an India Jones plot where, yes, the world is a stake, but only a small number of people from each side recognize it.

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, but they should have started out the sequel trilogy with something along these lines...

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I do wonder if the idea of a corrupt Republic was considered where our heroes from Return of the Jedi were now embroiled in a system that was eating itself, eventually having to leave and fight against it showing us that history will always repeat.

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... and THEN introduced the First Order not only to us, but the CHARACTERS as well. The big mistake TFA makes (among many) is that the First Order is already a known entity in that movie. It would have been SO MUCH better if the FO had been building up in secret over the past 30 years, and then, IN TFA, is when EVERYONE is surprised by their existence.

That way, we would have gotten all the context we need as to the state of the affairs in the Republic, why Leia had to form this off-shoot, etc., while also giving immediate context to the FO as well, once they enter the fray.

Personally, I don't care what the scale is as long as there's context. In the sequel trilogy, there's just no context whatsoever, and that's what's so maddening.

amercer said:

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Does it have to be large scale? I see it more like an India Jones plot where, yes, the world is a stake, but only a small number of people from each side recognize it.

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We have historical context of the nazi's to lean on for India Jones (which should be a bollywood movie if not already).

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I do wonder if the idea of a corrupt Republic was considered where our heroes from Return of the Jedi were now embroiled in a system that was eating itself, eventually having to leave and fight against it showing us that history will always repeat

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All this has happened before, and all this will happen again?

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But they seemingly have MORE money/resources than the Empire ever did, yet they're somehow smaller and aren't enough of a threat to warrant legit military action from the Republic?

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Where are you getting this idea, though? The Empire controlled the entire galaxy. The FO doesn't control anything, yet.

Their first big victory was the destruction of Hosnian Prime, and right after that, their focus has been to wipe out the Resistance.

The real heavy lifting of the FO gathering resources and taking control of the galaxy will (I assume) be done between movies, with the Resistance, the Republic, and the Republic fleet out of the picture.

Basically, to me they seemed like they were hugely under-equipped and outnumbered to start a full-scale war with the Republic, hence them not being considered a true threat. They would have been promptly defeated. The surprise attack was their only chance.

Think of it like the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor, except they used nukes that nobody knew they had. All of America's military superiority is instantly vaporized.

I actually agree, but ironically, you're pitching something way more along the lines of the prequels, which so many of you despise.

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All of America's military superiority is instantly vaporized.

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The Japanese military, in terms of equipment and experience, was far greater than what the US possessed on 7 December 1941. What we did have, and showed over the next 4 years, was a potential that no other nation could match. Once we killed the majority of Japanese experience at places like Midway and Guadalcanal, then it was only a matter of time before our manufacturing potential became reality, and the Japs were toast.

Flashdiaz said:

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amercer said:

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Does it have to be large scale? I see it more like an India Jones plot where, yes, the world is a stake, but only a small number of people from each side recognize it.

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We have historical context of the nazi's to lean on for India Jones (which should be a bollywood movie if not already).

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Perhaps that's what they were going for in temple of doom....

Yes we know about the Nazis, but at least in Raiders they make it pretty clear that most of the bad guys don't really know what the stakes are. I could see that in this movie. Sure the universe is full of good guys and bad guys, but it's only a small number that really care/comprehend what the stakes are

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I do wonder if the idea of a corrupt Republic was considered where our heroes from Return of the Jedi were now embroiled in a system that was eating itself, eventually having to leave and fight against it showing us that history will always repeat.

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You thought people hated the "rehashed" plot in The Force Awakens...that's exactly what happened in the prequels.

Looking back, I wonder if Disney should have tried something other than having Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers be the enemy.

So we basically think it's something like this?

- There's an army of the republic, but in classic Star Wars bureaucratic tradition they aren't doing anything about The First Order, who are amassing strength at the edge of the Galaxy, taking prisoners to turn into Stormtroopers, and also building a secret weapon.

- Leia, like her mother, gets upset that they aren't doing anything and decides to lead a rag tag band of people who can see the true threat of the First Order

- The First Order decides they're powerful enough to make a move and wipes out the entire republic and its military (the attack is super effective!) in one strike

- The Resistance attacks the First Order, wipes out their super secret weapon, and in response the First Order goes after The Resistance

- Now at this point, the First Order COULD just stop chasing the resistance and start taking over the galaxy or settling down to its favorite past-time with some hot and heavy trade negotiations, but they're (now led by Kylo Ren) obsessed with wiping out the Resistance first?

- So maybe TROS begins with a galaxy in chaos (are we even still using republic credits? did they bring those back? is it SithCoin now or what are we doing?), maybe Hux has control over most of the First Order and they're going around taking over systems while Ren is hunting down Rey? (Because at this point there really isn't a 'resistance' there's just 'a handful of people on this ship with Rey.')

That about the gist of it? Do we need any more than that?

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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But they seemingly have MORE money/resources than the Empire ever did, yet they're somehow smaller and aren't enough of a threat to warrant legit military action from the Republic?

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Where are you getting this idea, though? The Empire controlled the entire galaxy. The FO doesn't control anything, yet.

Their first big victory was the destruction of Hosnian Prime, and right after that, their focus has been to wipe out the Resistance.

The real heavy lifting of the FO gathering resources and taking control of the galaxy will (I assume) be done between movies, with the Resistance, the Republic, and the Republic fleet out of the picture.

Basically, to me they seemed like they were hugely under-equipped and outnumbered to start a full-scale war with the Republic, hence them not being considered a true threat. They would have been promptly defeated. The surprise attack was their only chance.

Think of it like the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor, except they used nukes that nobody knew they had. All of America's military superiority is instantly vaporized.

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I'm basing it strictly on appearances. I know they don't actually have more money or control than the Empire, but you have to admit that it's somewhat contradictory and confusing that the First Order is supposed to be some kind of underdog rising from the ashes, when, instead of a Death Star, they have an entire planet - a Super Death Death, if you will - along with way bigger/better ships than the Empire ever had, seemingly un-depleatable resources, etc. They don't come across as underdogs our outnumbered in any way, shape, or form. For all intents and purposes, they SEEM more powerful than the Empire ever was, even though we know that's not the reality.

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Basically, to me they seemed like they were hugely under-equipped and outnumbered to start a full-scale war with the Republic, hence them not being considered a true threat. They would have been promptly defeated.

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I don't doubt this is the reality, but honestly, watching TFA, I didn't get this impression at all. In What about the FO in TFA gave you the impression that they were under-equipped and outnumbered? Again, it felt like the exact opposite to me. The movie does a terrible job of providing that context.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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I actually agree, but ironically, you're pitching something way more along the lines of the prequels, which so many of you despise.

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Not really, though. They could have done this in two scenes, tops...

1) Early in the movie (like the third scene or so), have Leia in a heated debate at some kind of hearing, and not that giant Senate chamber from the prequels with all the floaty pods, but more like a traditional hearing where she's in front of a governing/authoritative committee, trying to convince the Republic of intel she's gathered that the Empire is rising from the ashes. There are rumors, reports, blurry photographic evidence, etc., but the committee just isn't hearing it. Leia tells the Republic that they've grown stale, prideful, and ignorant, and is convinced that something is afoot, but the Republic implies that Leia is paranoid, a relic from a war-torn era, and they ultimately rule that they'll wait 'til there's more proof, etc. This scene is five minutes, if that, and not only tells us EVERYTHING we need to know, but also serves as compelling drama via a heated debate.

2) Once the First Order DOES strike publicly, and make themselves known, Leia is vindicated, and hastily forms a "Resistance" to try and strike back. We don't need to see the Resistance form, but at the end of this scene - the scene where she learns that the FO has revealed themselves - she simply makes a call or tells her colleagues it's time to "gather the troops," in so many words.

TFA could have opened roughly the same way - with Poe ambushed by the FO on Jakku and interrogated - then he manages to escape via Finn, same as before, make it back to the Republic, and it's Poe's encounter with the FO that causes Leia to call for this hearing with the Republic. The FO had only been rumor up to that point, now one of Leia's own had a direct encounter, but it's still not enough for the committee.

Move the First Order's testing of their Starkiller weapon up to the end of act one, in which they cripple the Republic, and then it's up to Leia and co to strike back.

And just like that, everything is solved, the stakes and context are SO MUCH clearer, and then we're off and running with so much more purpose. There's a lot more I'd change, of course, but Rey's story could stay exactly the same, as could much of the rest of the movie under this scenario.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Also, want to point out that so much of the "context" provided in the OT came from either ROTJ, or the hundreds of books, comics, and other EU resources that were released in the subsequent 16 years.

ANH just threw you into the middle of the story just like JJ did.

But then, of course, came the prequels. A LOT of our context came from there.

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I just flat out disagree with you on this one. As the article states, it was apparent from literally the first frame of A New Hope what the context/dynamic of the galaxy was. The big scary bad guys are in control and a small band of good-guy Rebels are on the run. And that dynamic was only solidified throughout the movie, without hardly having to explain a thing. I didn't need to more OT movies and the prequels to give me any more context that A New Hope provided so effectively.