Bump

AggieChemist said:

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maca1028 said:

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There's a fair amount of blame on both sides. This show was very good but I took a lot of what was portrayed with a grain of salt. This wasn't a documentary it was a dramatization based off of books by Noesner and Thibodeau with some Hollywood flair.
If those people weren't being held hostage then they had ample opportunity to tell Koresh to go pound sand, grab their kids, and walk out the door.
On the other hand the ATF had no business raiding that place, the FBI made it worse with their "scare tactic" mentality of trying to flush them out, and Reno should've never allowed tear gas to be pumped in there with innocent children.

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Your scenario assumes that the people WANTED to leave and Koresh held them there.

The people were true believers. They were following their Messiah.

He was a messed up dude, but in America, we are supposed to have the freedom to follow a messed up dude that believes he is the Messiah without being gassed and burned alive.

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I completely agree with your last statement, my scenerio is based off of what I would've done. The entire incident could've been avoided. ATF should've never raided the place, the davidians could've walked out at any time, and it could've ended without the burning the place down. Like I said, there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides and 24 innocent children died because of it.

Part 1 of 12 segment interviews with David Thibodeau;


This particular channel has a ton of extended interviews with survivors and others.

Just watched the first episode, not remembering a whole lot about how everything went down. Pleasantly surprised it doesn't feel like a TV movie-of-the-week that I was expecting. Taylor Kitsch really nails the David Koresh role of being charismatic (but not over the top), sincere, and manipulative at the same time. Also like how they tied in Ruby Ridge since it sets the stage and some of the same agents were involved. Will definitely keep going...

AggieChemist said:

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maca1028 said:

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There's a fair amount of blame on both sides. This show was very good but I took a lot of what was portrayed with a grain of salt. This wasn't a documentary it was a dramatization based off of books by Noesner and Thibodeau with some Hollywood flair.
If those people weren't being held hostage then they had ample opportunity to tell Koresh to go pound sand, grab their kids, and walk out the door.
On the other hand the ATF had no business raiding that place, the FBI made it worse with their "scare tactic" mentality of trying to flush them out, and Reno should've never allowed tear gas to be pumped in there with innocent children.

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Your scenario assumes that the people WANTED to leave and Koresh held them there.

The people were true believers. They were following their Messiah.

He was a messed up dude, but in America, we are supposed to have the freedom to follow a messed up dude that believes he is the Messiah without being gassed and burned alive.

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I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch. In fact, I typically mock them. But I find it really strange that the audio of them setting fire this was never released. You would think this would be all over the place, as the ATF/FBI would want that to be out in the open.

However, this show was over the top on the side of the BD. I don't believe that either.

Just CV binged this last night. Very good. Shannon was excellent.

aTmAg said:

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I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch. In fact, I typically mock them. But I find it really strange that the audio of them setting fire this was never released. You would think this would be all over the place, as the ATF/FBI would want that to be out in the open.

However, this show was over the top on the side of the BD. I don't believe that either.

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I was friends with atf agents. I didnt know any bd. But i promise you, The show was over the top on the side of the atf and fbi.

People should have been executed for what happened there.

cbr said:

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aTmAg said:

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I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch. In fact, I typically mock them. But I find it really strange that the audio of them setting fire this was never released. You would think this would be all over the place, as the ATF/FBI would want that to be out in the open.

However, this show was over the top on the side of the BD. I don't believe that either.

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But i promise you, The show was over the top on the side of the atf and fbi.

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Wait, was there another Waco series that I missed?

Finished it the other day. Well done for sure, though it was kind of like watching Titanic!

Agree they should not have glossed over the sins of the BDs. No reason to make them out as the "good guys" while faulting the ATF/FBI.

This shows the problems of the arrogance if the 3 letter agencies and disregard for the Constitution and The People. Great show even with bias of both sides in situations.

Just got through episode 3. Good so far.

Many questions though!

Obviously, there is conflicting testimony on who started raid #1, but is it accurate of how it was depicted where the ATF shot the dogs that approached them and then they opened fire on Koresh and the building and even shooting Koresh in the side/gut area? I didn't realize Koresh was injured or even shot during the long standoff.

And, was there seriously a camera man that the ATF hired to film this thing and then the camera was destroyed?

I honestly don't remember that happening, but admittedly never followed the story that close.

Rascal said:

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is it accurate of how it was depicted where the ATF shot the dogs that approached them

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yes. they were alaskan malamutes just as depicted in the show. they had farm animals as well that were reportedly slaughtered during the 51 day standoff as part of the psychological operation against them. that may be an embellishment.

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and then they opened fire on Koresh and the building and even shooting Koresh in the side/gut area? I didn't realize Koresh was injured or even shot during the long standoff.

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who fired first is something that will never be settled, thanks to all the evidence being conveniently destroyed. but the shootout wasn't depicted exactly the way it happened IRL. the ATF ran out of ammo and were allowed to retreat, the show makes it look like a truce was called. he was gut shot during the initial raid though and when he suddenly stopped making videos and posting communications, the public thought he had succumbed to his wounds.

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And, was there seriously a camera man that the ATF hired to film this thing and then the camera was destroyed?

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yes. there is an academy award winning documentary that features alot of the original footage. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120472/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3

the film that went missing was from the tarrant county medical examiners office. the fbi was not allowing any independent investigation of the matter and the local doctor (indian guy named peerwani) tried like hell to get the tapes back but they were conveniently lost.

Thanks for sharing all that.

Why was the raid #1 video footage stored in a medical examiner office?

Rascal said:

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Thanks for sharing all that.

Why was the raid #1 video footage stored in a medical examiner office?

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it wasnt. first one was part of what everbody has seen now from the initial raid. ATF video embarassing themselves.

that wasnt the video in question.

the second video was taken from the texas authorities trying to do their own investigation.

that is the video with all the incrimiating evidence against the FBI.

we still havent seen that video and there is no evidence of any wrongdoing cause the place conventiently burned to the ground

Just finished the series and halfway through the documentary you shared.

Wow! On many levels. Fascinating to see the political divide even back then during the congressional hearings. And Chuck Schumer was a POS then as he is now.