*** BLADE RUNNER 2049 *** (Spoiler Thread)

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TCTTS
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AG
I figure if any movie needs a spoiler thread, it's this one. Otherwise every post from here on out in the other thread would need to be redacted.

First things first... this was probably one of the top five best-looking movies I have ever seen. Just staggeringly, jaw-droopingly beautiful in every way, and if Deakins doesn't finally win the Oscar for Best Cinematography this year, it will be a travesty. The second this movie is available on 4K Blu-ray I will basically have it on 24/7 as one hell of a gorgeous screensaver (and I don't mean that as a dig in any way). I seriously cannot wait to just bathe in its cinematography for years to come.

As for the movie itself, for the most part, I loved it. And while I thought Villeneuve had managed to out-Nolan Nolan about two-thirds of the way through - seriously, I was in awe of just about every aspect of this film through that point - the final act was the weakest part of the movie by far for me, and further cemented Nolan as NOLAN for the time being, because no one sticks the landing as consistently as profoundly as he does.

Still, Villeneuve is now neck-and-neck with him in terms of event filmmaking.

Just so many cool ideas, characters, and set pieces in this film. I thought Sylvia Hoeks as Luv, in particular, was phenomenal, and I can't remember the last time I had this many "I can't wait to watch that again" moments/visuals overall. Just amazing stuff all around, and I probably need to sit with the very few things I didn't like for the time being. Such as...


COMPLAINTS / PLOT HOLES

- How/why did K take his flying cop car to Vegas after he was basically put on watch for his baseline being way off? I know the whole point plot-wise was to give Luv a way to track him, but something about that rang hollow / way too convenient and/or stupid.

- Why didn't Luv and co kill K in Deckard's penthouse? Or, rather, why didn't the filmmakers have K escape their clutches alive so the plot didn't force them to leave him alive? That whole sequence just felt super convenient and like too much of a tired trope.

- The movie really lost steam for me when it was revealed toward the end that nope, K , in fact, really was a replicant after all. I like what it set-up in terms of Deckard and his daughter, and I kind of enjoyed the plot twisty aspect of it all, but narratively it just didn't quite gel for me. It almost felt like a cheap fake out in the end that merely propped up K as a daughter delivery device for Deckard, rather than following through with a hero's journey-esque character arc for him. I was really, really into the notion of a replicant learning that he was, in fact, "real" and the first of his kind. That was such a cool idea that felt completely undone by the gut punch toward the end. And look, I admit that even when I thought K was "the one" I was kind of cringing at the idea of him eventually revealing to Deckard that he was his son. And I'm not saying his should have been the typical hero's journey type arc, it was just a narratively arresting way to essentially switch the focus over to Deckard in the end. Which makes sense on the surface, but something about the actual execution simply felt a bit off to me.

- For the love of God, can we PLEASE stop bringing back young, CGI versions of iconic characters? Never mind the tech still not being quite there to fully pull it off, but here, especially, it was just so needless and gimmicky with Rachel. The bit added nothing and changed nothing and only served to further stain the third act for me.


QUESTIONS

- What was up with the whole blackout event mentioned as happening years prior? I think I get the first of it, but I had to go to the bathroom at one point and must have missed the initial mention of it.

- And just to be clear, it was Tyrell who engineered Rachel to be able to give birth, right? That's what I thought I heard Wallace allude to as being Tyrell's last "gift" or something. Just want to make sure.

- Finally, what was Deckard's daughter's backstory again? Or at least what she believed to be her backstory? I couldn't understand parts of what she was telling K when he first met her.


FINALLY, AN ADMISSION

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this as it's so obvious now, but all these years I always thought that replicants were part machine. And that the eye test was just to avoid having to cut them open or whatever to check for sure. Yes, I realize that Tyrell's motto was literally, "More human than human," but I guess I always took that to mean in the replicants' mannerism, appearance, etc. Not that they were actual, albeit manufactured, flesh-and-blood super humans with legit organs, blood, and bones and what not. It makes total sense now, and again, I can't believe I missed that, but it took the bone analyzation scene toward the beginning for me to finally get it.
Sex Panther
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I don't have a lot to add which hasn't already been said.

Overall I loved it, and echo everyone's sentiments... so visually beautiful. I was just blown away by the cinematography. Jaw dropping in every way.

I put Villenueve at the very top now. Even over Nolan. Probably no other name I will be more excited about moving forward.... Gosling was great, and even though most of the time I want to punch him in his face, Leto was terrific in his role. (But if I hear that dumb 30 Seconds to Mars song on ESPN one more time I will go back to hating him)

It was a little long, which only bothered me because I had been drinking and had to piss twice.


To the spoiler questions, I have no idea why they didn't kill Gosling in Vegas. That made no sense whatsoever.

And I was cracking up when CGI Rachel walked out for the very reason you stated... We keep getting all of Harrison Ford's old love interests. God help us if the Indiana Jones team starts to get some ideas...

Also, regarding the Gosling reversal/reveal of being an actual Replicant... It seems like they're definitely going to do another one, so maybe we get more answers and a further arc in Blade Runner 2056 or whatever's next.


Also, I'm right there with you regarding I thought Replicants were more machine than human.
TCTTS
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Ha, I somehow didn't even make the Ford connection, re: bringing back all his old love interests via CGI. Yeah, that sh*t has to stop.

Overall, the more I've thought about it, the more I'm warming up to K's overall arc. I'm still a bit disappointed by it, but I do like the idea that he came to the realization that for him, it's his actions that ultimately made him human. Whatever the exact line was about sacrificing oneself for a cause that was ultimately the most human thing one could do. That was a pretty cool angle.

Man, I really need to see this movie again, and soon.
Sex Panther
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By the way, the scene where Joi "synced" with the hooker was one of the coolest special effects I've seen in recent memory.
TCTTS
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Yeah, that was amazing. The way they meshed their faces, in particular, was insanely cool.
GiveEmHellBill
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Quote:

- What was up with the whole blackout event mentioned as happening years prior? I think I get the first of it, but I had to go to the bathroom at one point and must have missed the initial mention of it.
This is what I got from that:

A short time after the events of the first movie, there was a full-on replicant rebellion. The humans final solution was to "go dark" for awhile (I can't remember if the file clerk said it was a few days or weeks). Literally everything mechanical was shut off and the world went back to pre-electricity days.

This apparently did the job, except for all those Nexus 8 models who managed to escape. It was never explained how, but they seemed to be able to survive the shutdown while all the other replicant units didn't.
GiveEmHellBill
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Sex Panther said:

By the way, the scene where Joi "synced" with the hooker was one of the coolest special effects I've seen in recent memory.
I was in awe during that entire scene.

Another sequence that I just feel was so brilliantly shot was the scene with Ford and Leto in that yellow-lit watery room. There was a light source above the two actors that was in constant rotation around them. Ford would be lit from the front, then the light would slowly move over and behind him, encasing his face in deep shadow while his silhouette seemed to glow. Then, over to Leto and the same thing would happen. All this was happening while Leto was giving his wonderful monologues. It was so beautiful to watch.

This movie HAS to be seen on the best screen you can see it on and with the best possible sound.

Speaking of sound, I swear they ramped up the volume in some of those "flying through the scenery" sequences. The soundtrack/ambient sound would have these huge "BWAAAAHHHHHMMMMSSSS" and I swear the entire theater rattled every time. It was loud.
Simplebay
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i loved the final water scene too. It was simpler, but sooooooOoooo well done on that dam/whatever.

again though... it was a liiiiiiitlle long, or drug a bit. but also i really had to piss too which didnt help.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

INALLY, AN ADMISSION

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this as it's so obvious now, but all these years I always thought that replicants were part machine. And that the eye test was just to avoid having to cut them open or whatever to check for sure. Yes, I realize that Tyrell's motto was literally, "More human than human," but I guess I always took that to mean in the replicants' mannerism, appearance, etc. Not that they were actual, albeit manufactured, flesh-and-blood super humans with legit organs, blood, and bones and what not. It makes total sense now, and again, I can't believe I missed that, but it took the bone analyzation scene toward the beginning for me to finally get it.
Go back and watch the original. When Deckard blasts a hole in Pris' (Darryl Hannah) gut, that is all blood and innards that we see. They were not machines. They were engineered, yes, but they were completely biological, albeit with enhancements beyond what real humans would ever have.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Ok, I just returned from seeing this movie.

This was among the most visually spectacular movies I have ever seen. It was the original movie that is probably most responsible for my choice of architecture over computer science as a major at A&M (didn't last long, as architecture was pretty quickly evident to me that I was not going to be happy, so I ended up in business analysis, close enough to computer science I suppose). None of those interests have ever left me. I've always been someone with an artistic interest, and Blade Runner remains quite simply one of the top 2-3 impacting movies ever made for design. 2049 continues that although I never thought that design was its focus. I think the original focused on all of that stuff because, frankly, nothing like that had ever been done. By now, we've had numerous movies emulate what Ridley Scott did in Blade Runner. And for that, I am actually grateful.

There was a far more interesting plot in 2049. Early on I did have to remind myself of one of the original's biggest plot points, in that there were very few real animals left in the world. And I actually loved that twist, I suppose that's what it would be, of making the audience think that Gosling was the special one when in fact he was just another replicant. Up to the point when they revealed it, I was thinking K was indeed the world's first natural born replicant. I guess I should have known before that, when Deckard was talking about doing all they could to alter records, etc, and how they made a point of showing us those identical DNA records with one being male and the other female, and the female had died.

I didn't really like bringing back that Rachel-like character. Didn't seem to serve any real purpose, other than to give Deckard the opportunity to point out where they messed up and to have the gal blow her away.

Loved that they made San Diego a trash zone. Nothing against San Diego, just seemed funny.

Who was the hologram girl? She sure looked like the gal from Rogue One, but I don't recall recognizing her name in the cast list. I thought her character was actually among the most compelling of the entire movie. I was sympathetic with her - a freaking hologram! - and I was mesmerized with the translucence of her character. Plus that sex scene was amazing.

The movie probably could have shaved a few minutes off its run-time. I don't know how I was able to keep myself planted in my seat despite having a giant Coke to slurp on. The sound was awesome as well.

I'm going to have to see this a few more times to really soak it up, but upon just this initial viewing, I'll say it is a top 5 all-time best science fiction movie.
zgood10
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AG
Absolutely amazing experience
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Brian Earl Spilner
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Sooo.... Is Deckard a replicant?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quick thoughts -

Visually orgasmic. Audio/soundtrack amazing as well. Give Deakins a statue.

More thoughts when I get home.

Edit: ignore the thumbs down. Should be a thumbs up.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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What ended up being the significance of 6/10/21?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Also, was K really the genetic clone of the daughter? I feel like I should know but maybe it just went over my head.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

What ended up being the significance of 6/10/21?
Thought it was the birthdate of the daughter, although they made you think it was K's birthdate. But it's entirely possible I missed something.
Log
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Posted this on another thread, but I think it was just long enough to answer most of our questions, while leaving enough open to keep us wondering (unlike the mess of the 7-8 cuts of the first movie). I wasn't disappointed in the 3rd act. There is plenty of material left to round out the trilogy (yeah, I'm going there), with Deckard's sex trophy, Wallace, Joe, and Joi, who I think exists in material form somewhere for Joe to find. Yeah, Joe/K ain't dead. As well as the surviving Nexus 8 replicants coming war for their freedom against humans.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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ATM1876 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Sooo.... Is Deckard a replicant?
Absolutely, he said the whole reason he was in hiding is because "we" were being hunted. Also, it's kind of implied that he was specially created by Tyrell since he didn't expire like the other Nexus 6 replicants. He was either a one-off like Rachael to see if they could reproduce (Wallace hints that they may not have met by chance, although that may have been just a ploy to manipulate him) or an early Nexus 8 model that had a natural lifespan.
I still believe Deckard was human. We were being hunted is true, but remember the original ended with Deckard and Rachel on the run (and Gaff leaving the unicorn origami at Deckard's door step).
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Brian Earl Spilner
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But then how/why was he given her memory?
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GiveEmHellBill
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Okay, when Edward James Olmos had his cameo, all I could think was "why is Commander Adama dressed as Colonel Sanders?"

Brian Earl Spilner
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I guess I could buy that. They seemed to make the point that he was special, that he was the only one with a real memory, but I guess the whole point was that he never was.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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ATM1876 said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

ATM1876 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Sooo.... Is Deckard a replicant?
Absolutely, he said the whole reason he was in hiding is because "we" were being hunted. Also, it's kind of implied that he was specially created by Tyrell since he didn't expire like the other Nexus 6 replicants. He was either a one-off like Rachael to see if they could reproduce (Wallace hints that they may not have met by chance, although that may have been just a ploy to manipulate him) or an early Nexus 8 model that had a natural lifespan.
I still believe Deckard was human. We were being hunted is true, but remember the original ended with Deckard and Rachel on the run (and Gaff leaving the unicorn origami at Deckard's door step).
Gaff leaving the unicorn makes Deckard question his own humanity because he had a dream about a unicorn. If Gaff knew about his dream then it suggests that was a memory that was implanted.
Admittedly, the different cuts of the movie have changed the messages/meanings in this movie. The unicorn dream was not n the original theatrical version, although the unicorn origami was. I will continue to consider Deckard a human based on the original release and the book that it was based on. And perhaps famously, Harrison Ford believes the character to be human, while Ridley Scott does not, hence the Final Cut.
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Bunk Moreland
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ATM1876 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

But then how/why was he given her memory?
That's her job, she creates memories for replicants. When he went to question her she said that it was illegal to create memories for replicants that were real, but she was clearly doing it anyway.

My memory is a little hazy here and will get cleared up on a rewatch, but when he was talking with the group of replicant freedom fighters he realized that he wasn't Rachael's son. I think they asked him something along the lines of if he thought he was the one and then told him that they all once did as well, which makes me think they had some of her memories as well.


This was the worst part. They shamelessly played the entire film as if he was the son, then the one eyed lady basically says "Ohhh. You thought it was you?! Poor sap. No it wasn't you"

I took that as basically her telling K and the audience at the same time. There was zero twist about that. It came off as cheap and hacky to me. They didn't leave enough tea leaves to believe any other way as the film went on.

Bunk Moreland
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I still think it was visually incredible and well made but had some big time flaws, and needed to be cut down to 2h10m. It could have been cut down that much and not missed a beat imo.

And I also agree the 3rd act was a major mess. That's the first thing me and my buddy said as we walked out.

That all being said... I want to live in an empty casino where I can go into a lounge and watch AI Elvis sing Love Me Tender. Oh and unlimited bourbon. Sign me up
VitruvianAg
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"Blade Runner" has been one of the best movies I've seen.

"Blade Runner 2049" is far better in every regard.

I though Sean Young would turn out to be a great actress (actor if you like), but that didn't turn out to be so.

As an architect and urban designer I wasn't blown away by the architecture but I did recognize the locations in Spain and Mexico. Spain was in Roquetas de Mar. Mexico was anywhere in south eastern suburban D.F.
All of the architecture in the movie was just to Brutal for my taste, I lost interest in the style 30 years ago,

Terry Giliam movies are architectural more interesting, IMO.
 
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