The Vietnam War

6,782 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by ja86
DG-Ag
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Just curious if anyone else is watching this Ken Burns doc running on PBS? I'm on episode 5 right now. Really enjoying it. What a quagmire that was. Great film footage and lots of interesting LBJ tapes. Amazing the level of doubt most everyone in the administration had about our ability to win, yet the complete different public comments they would make about how "well it was going."

The emphasis on body count being the metric for judging success was also interesting. Our focus on "winning hearts and minds" as an objective which totally failed also very enlightening. The people we were there to help - the South Vietnamese - didn't want us there. I was a young kid while all this was going on so never fully understood at the time. This doc has me wanting to read/view more about it.

Overall think it's been pretty well done.

Any other recommendations about documentaries on Vietnam? I'd like to compare and contrast.
Presley OBannons Sword
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Quote:

The people we were there to help - the South Vietnamese - didn't want us there
1) that is a gross generalization
2) we weren't really there to help the south vietnamese
Presley OBannons Sword
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if you are really interested in the topic I can give you several book recommendations.
DG-Ag
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Presley OBannons Sword said:

Quote:

The people we were there to help - the South Vietnamese - didn't want us there
1) that is a gross generalization
2) we weren't really there to help the south vietnamese
Yeah, just repeating what the doc said for the most part.
DG-Ag
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AG
Presley OBannons Sword said:

if you are really interested in the topic I can give you several book recommendations.
Would love some recommendations. As I said above I'd like to compare and contrast. Thanks.
amercer
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The thread on the history board is your best bet.

I've watched the first 3 episodes, and it's incredible. But the events of the war are fresh enough that I'm sure lots of people would argue with it. A politics board thread on it would probably get ugly.
Jimmy McNulty
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I'd also love some book recs
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Is this streaming anywhere? PBS.org?
Bodie Broadus
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My favorite Vietnam book is "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts" by David Hackworth.
Bodie Broadus
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Also Vietnam in HD is a great documentary. I think it should still be on Netflix.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Really enjoying it. My knowledge of VN pretty much was after we sent regular troops and escalated. the history and back story and politics within VN were fascinating.
DG-Ag
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

Is this streaming anywhere? PBS.org?
I know I watched Ep 1 there because we didn't have the DVR set. I may be wrong but I think all the episodes are there.
RightWingConspirator
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I'm watching it as well. I saw part 3 last night "Crossing the River Styx". I love Burns' work in the Civil War and Vietnam has always interested me as well. No way was I going to miss it.
DG-Ag
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World War II is pretty good as well.

I want to watch his doc on National Parks at some point.
PooDoo
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Tarrant County Commissioner, Andy Nguyen, said he was disappointed with the accuracy of the documentary. Didnt tell the real story of the war.

Here's a bit of his story from a Trump rally.

Presley OBannons Sword
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Oahu_Gigem said:

My favorite Vietnam book is "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts" by David Hackworth.
while I would never recommend someone NOT read Hackworth, that's more of a leadership book.


anyone interested in reading the history of the Vietnam war should go with:

Street Without Joy by Bernard Fall - the history of the French in Vietnam. read this with the mindset that Americans had access to this book BEFORE THE WAR. it will make you angry.

Embers of War by Frederik Logevall - basically the story of the French in Vietnam and the transition to the Americans

Vietnam: A History by Stanley Karnow - good overall picture of post WWII Vietnam through the fall of Saigon. Emphasis on America's involvement.

The Best and Brightest by David Halberstam- who all the main players were, what they did, and how they all each contributed to getting us into the mess

A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan - very thorough story of early American involvement through the early seventies. Shows an interesting transition in the main character (John Paul Vann) from skeptic to true believer. a personal favorite.

In Retrospect by Robert McNamara - McNamara's ass-covering memoir that sort of takes some blame, while excuse making

Dereliction of Duty by H.R. McMaster - pretty much a response to In Retrospect, putting the blame back on the LBJ White House and staff


I wrote those in no particular order, but they're actually in a pretty decent order that you COULD read them. maybe start with Karnow.

other interesting Vietnam books:

Hell in a Very Small Place by Bernard Fall - the story of Dien Bien Phu.

The Last Valley by Martin Windrow - the book's focus is on Dien Bien Phu, but it's a very thorough explanation of the beginnings of the Viet Minh and the French in Vietnam

Four Hours in My Lai by Michael Bilton - the story of one of America's darkest days in the war. not for the faint of heart. brutal book.


I'm also in the process of reading through the Lyndon Johnson series by Robert Caro, because all the rest of my reading has lead me to it with the opinion that this flawed president is about 95% to blame for things getting as bad as they did.





Presley OBannons Sword
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amercer said:

The thread on the history board is your best bet.

I've watched the first 3 episodes, and it's incredible. But the events of the war are fresh enough that I'm sure lots of people would argue with it. A politics board thread on it would probably get ugly.
threads on the politics board mainly consist of the majority of the board just reciting the played out "they wouldn't let us win, we should have bombed them back to the stone age" mantra, which is a ridiculous oversimplification.
Bodie Broadus
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Indeed it is, but found myself fascinated with the turn around for that outfit. I think I read it when I was 18 and really made a lasting impression on me.
Presley OBannons Sword
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No ****ing slack.
Leggo My Elko
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AG
I've watched every episode so far and think it's pretty amazing.

As far as another book on Vietnam I'd really really recommend Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes.
It is fiction, but certainly some what autobiographical. Karl Marlantes in actually in the current Ken Burns doc. He is the one with the line, "I don't think the military turns men in killers, it's just finishing school".
BJM1781
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Hearts and Minds is a very interesting documentary that was actually filmed and released during the era (1974).
DG-Ag
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AG
Thank you so much for putting this list together!
Presley OBannons Sword
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TexjbA&M said:

I've watched every episode so far and think it's pretty amazing.

As far as another book on Vietnam I'd really really recommend Matterhorn by Karl Marlantes.
It is fiction, but certainly some what autobiographical. Karl Marlantes in actually in the current Ken Burns doc. He is the one with the line, "I don't think the military turns men in killers, it's just finishing school".
good recommendation. if we're recommending fiction, Fields of Fire by James Webb is actually my favorite book of all time
Presley OBannons Sword
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DG-Ag said:

Thank you so much for putting this list together!
no problem. it's my favorite topic, so if someone expresses an interest in learning about, I am pretty happy to go on a nice rant.
Jimmy McNulty
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AG
Please do!
Southlake
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Chickenhawk
Leggo My Elko
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Quote:

good recommendation. if we're recommending fiction, Fields of Fire by James Webb is actually my favorite book of all time
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely look into it. Do you think it would be a good listen? I like audiobooks, some war fictions are great listens others lean more to being read.
Presley OBannons Sword
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TexjbA&M said:

Quote:

good recommendation. if we're recommending fiction, Fields of Fire by James Webb is actually my favorite book of all time
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely look into it. Do you think it would be a good listen? I like audiobooks, some war fictions are great listens others lean more to being read.

Yes, I've listened to the audible as well, and it's very good except for the narrator's mispronunciation of "corpsman".
Urban Ag
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The recorded phone calls between LBJ and the Republican Senate Minority Leader (can't remember his name) and then between LBJ and Nixon, during the 1968 campaign, while brief, were absolutely fascinating to listen to
Presley OBannons Sword
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Urban Ag said:

The recorded phone calls between LBJ and the Republican Senate Minority Leader (can't remember his name) and then between LBJ and Nixon, during the 1968 campaign, while brief, were absolutely fascinating to listen to
LBJ and Nixon, interestingly, had a pretty good relationship. Probably because they were both crooks.
DG-Ag
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AG
Presley OBannons Sword said:

Urban Ag said:

The recorded phone calls between LBJ and the Republican Senate Minority Leader (can't remember his name) and then between LBJ and Nixon, during the 1968 campaign, while brief, were absolutely fascinating to listen to
LBJ and Nixon, interestingly, had a pretty good relationship. Probably because they were both crooks.
I don't know I'd ever heard about Nixon's people working with Saigon before he took office to get them to walk away from the Paris talks. And then Nixon lying about it to LBJ in that taped phone call.
Anti-taxxer
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There's an Aggie on Ep 7 - James Willbanks. He's interviewed about the protests at the DNC.
DG-Ag
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smango05 said:

There's an Aggie on Ep 7 - James Willbanks. He's interviewed about the protests at the DNC.
He makes appearances several times on earlier episodes. Ep 7 was the first time they put "Texas A&M" under his name on screen.
maverick2076
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I'd add "We Were Soldiers, Once...and Young" to your reading list.
Presley OBannons Sword
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maverick2076 said:

I'd add "We Were Soldiers, Once...and Young" to your reading list.
decent enough book, but you wont get much education about the Vietnam War from these types of tactical level stories. just my opinion.
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