****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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wangus12
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JJxvi said:

Kozmozag said:

Starks won big.
The title of GRRMs final book was originally planned to be "A Time for Wolves" so...presumably yeah the plan was always for a big Stark comeback.
Yeah I always loved that title.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Pretty cool to look at. The logistics behind a show this massive is pretty mind-boggling.
NASAg03
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Too much of a happy, expected ending. Even Vegas got the prediction right about Bran being king. I thought he was the raven? Although it might have been a surprise, people weren't surprised, and that's the problem. Wasn't realistic at all with hiwv the other seasons went.

I'd prefer a sad ending, or crazy expected twist, than this. when has this show had any happy endings?
jboog
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I just can't get over that no one even brought up the fact that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen in the end.
MuckRaker96
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Did Tyrion's wedding to Sansa ever get officially annulled? Cuz otherwise the Imp is King in the North

Was hoping Sweet Robin would put the moves on Sansa at the Great Council.
Brian Earl Spilner
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The "spoilers without context" pic of 4 garbage cans was inaccurate...

MuckRaker96
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SAtxag16 said:

I just can't get over that no one even brought up the fact that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen in the end.
Being a Targaryen isn't worth much to the people who just experienced a Targaryen ruthlessly murder tens of thousands of innocent people.

Robert Baratheon was the last legit king, if anything Gendry should have been pushed forward as king.
Agnzona
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Was Kit Harrington just playing sully John all season or did he not really want to be there either?
"It's what I do...I drink and I know things."
bobinator
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I don't think Jon being a Targaryan would have mattered much at the end, but it still would have been nice for them to at least address it.

It was supposed to be like the biggest secret in the show, a secret that Ned Stark DIED without giving up, a secret that is one of main reasons Dany went full Hitler and then like... it doesn't even get brought up at the end.
Sarduakar
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The REAL winner here


Hoster Tully


One Son. Lord Of Riverrun
One Grandson Lord of the Vale
One Granddaughter Queen in the North
One Grandson King of the Six Kingdoms.
jboog
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MuckRaker96 said:

SAtxag16 said:

I just can't get over that no one even brought up the fact that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen in the end.
Being a Targaryen isn't worth much to the people who just experienced a Targaryen ruthlessly murder tens of thousands of innocent people.

Robert Baratheon was the last legit king, if anything Gendry should have been pushed forward as king.
But if it doesn't matter, what was the whole point of the big reveal at all? Was his lineage really just used as a plot device to further drive Dany toward being the Mad Queen? Because that's ridiculous
LoudestWHOOP!
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Are they still walking?
Boiling Denim
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NASAg03 said:

Even Vegas got the prediction right about Bran being king.
The odds were based off of known leaks since the beginning of the season. Full spoilers were posted on reddit freefolk and once it became apparent that they were true the outcome of Bran being king was solidified around Episode 3/4
bobinator
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Once the army of the dead was defeated I always felt this show was going to have a happy ending to some degree.

I did think for several seasons that there was an outside chance that the show was going to end with the army of the dead just killing everyone, but once that wasn't going to happen there was no other logical way for it to end with any sort of finality and not be a happy ending to at least some degree.
MuckRaker96
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SAtxag16 said:

MuckRaker96 said:

SAtxag16 said:

I just can't get over that no one even brought up the fact that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen in the end.
Being a Targaryen isn't worth much to the people who just experienced a Targaryen ruthlessly murder tens of thousands of innocent people.

Robert Baratheon was the last legit king, if anything Gendry should have been pushed forward as king.
But if it doesn't matter, what was the whole point of the big reveal at all? Was his lineage really just used as a plot device to further drive Dany toward being the Mad Queen? Because that's ridiculous
I think the reveal was to give Jon the chance to decide who he was going to be. He could have declared himself King after killing Dani or even before, but he chose to be Eddard Stark's son, honoring his vows until he reached the point where he knew that he had to break them and do what had to be done, playing off Ned's words to Bran, "A man is only brave when he is afraid." Jon hated the thought of killing Dany, but he feared what she would do to the rest of the world.
jboog
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bobinator said:

I don't think Jon being a Targaryan would have mattered much at the end, but it still would have been nice for them to at least address it.

It was supposed to be like the biggest secret in the show, a secret that Ned Stark DIED without giving up, a secret that is one of main reasons Dany went full Hitler and then like... it doesn't even get brought up at the end.
Well yes, it wouldn't have really played to come out and say "I'm Aegon Targaryen, the true heir to the Iron Throne", after she burned the city to the ground and he killed her. But they could have written that differently.

From the time we found out who he really was, I wanted there to be a true struggle between them for the throne, we never really got that other than a handful of awkward conversations where he just told her he didn't want it.

If it had become more public information before they sacked King's Landing, there could have been a real power struggle, and Jon could have killed her then he would be next in line, then he could have either taken the throne (unlikely) or turned it down and given it up and chosen to go North.

I just think that would have been a more powerful, fitting ending for the story and his character.
annie88
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I've been watching the little scenes after the show on HBO to go and it is very interesting. They had a 40 minute behind the scenes on the long night episode. Just amazing what they do to produce the show. Look forward to next Sunday night as they're going to have a very in-depth look at it.
Render
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I wonder why network shows always fizzle out after a few seasons. Seems like there's a huge audience for mediocrity in this thread.
ac04
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i don't think i'll ever get past drogon melting the iron throne. probably the dumbest part of any tv show i've ever watched.
annie88
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Some of the best leaders in history have been the reluctant ones not the ones that want the power.
CoolAggie
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bobinator said:

My overall feeling on last night is that it was like a great punt out of your own endzone. After everything else that happened this and last season that was about as good of an ending as we could have hoped for.
I like this analogy as well. I would add that they were punting out of their own endzone after having first and goal at the 10 at the end of season 6. All they had to do was to to punch into the endzone for the touchdown and spike the ball. Instead, they got too cute with the playcalling (granted, because they had no more new plays in the playbook) and just about effed it up.
The Dog Lord
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CostanzaWallet said:

I can't believe some people are so hung up on the Night's Watch. Jon got to castle black, there were no other night's watch men there, the freefolk are waiting for him, he leaves with the freefolk, and shuts the gate behind him. Homeboy ain't coming back, he's living out his days north of the wall. They even showed a blade of grass, indicating that the snow will melt and the freefolk will be enjoying some choice lands.

He may even find himself a new red headed wildling woman to make babies with.

There are dudes in black cloaks there, and someone had to close the gate. There IS a Nights Watch still.

BUT I do think it was clear that Jon is not coming back.
Agnzona
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ac04 said:

i don't think i'll ever get past drogon melting the iron throne. probably the dumbest part of any tv show i've ever watched.


Dany could have ordered him to melt it. Than Jon comes in intending to kill her. He sees it and reconsiders, they embrace and proclaim their love. Then she starts talking about the ensuing wars and he realizes he still has to kill her.

That took 10 seconds of thought, gets to the exact same place and is 1000x better than what D&D came up with.
"It's what I do...I drink and I know things."
bobinator
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Drogon melting the throne was another classic D&D moment. They had the visual they wanted, which to be fair was awesome, but their backwards work to get there left quite a bit to be desired.

I think I called like 100 pages ago that the iron throne was going to be melted, but yeah, in the moment it was like

"Oh this dragon that kind of soullessly killed a few hundred thousand people last episode suddenly is sad about how the quest for power erodes the human sense of morality."
PDEMDHC
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

The "spoilers without context" pic of 4 garbage cans was inaccurate...




Replace two of the dumpsters with a water bottle and Christopher Columbus.
Body By Fisher
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agsquirrel97 said:

The finale sucked, but it has almost been 7 full days since aTmAg went away.

PS. If it was a 7 day ban you might want to find something else to do this evening, because this place might look like King's Landing post Dany around 4PM this afternoon.
I think cbr and zjs more than made up for him this past week.
Zombie Jon Snow
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TLDR i know ......

imho..... a 7 episode season with just a bit more development of Dany's turn and it plays out much better.

I was really trying to work within the framework of the end point of each character here - so trying to stay true to the story assuming this was the intention via GRRM and it just needed a few things to sell it better.

I think I only add 30 minutes of runtime and a few other changes within scenes that existed.

So here is my attempt:



Ep1 - "Winterfell" 60 mins
no changes as is

Ep2 - "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" 60 mins
no changes as is

Ep3 - "The Long Night" 80 mins same runtime
1. Fix the lighting so we can see better - add torches, more fire, etc.
2. And fix Arya's attack to make sense. NK reaches Bran but Jon battles through to the godswood coming in behind the WWs who turn to form a barrier to the NK. He fights a few killing 2-3 but doesn't have enough to defeat them all and he is also about to be killed. This allowed Ary's (unseen) approach from behind and she climbs the tree and the kill happens much the same way except she drops from the tree - NK grabs her, drops knife, etc.

Ep4 - "The Last of the Starks" trimmed to 60 mins (20 mins cut from the end)
1. Fix the Bronn interaction - he shows up but can't kill them, they offer him double anyway cuz Tyrion promised that, bro hugs. Bronn disappears on good terms.
*Otherwise the episode proceeds as we saw with the party, battle planning, etc.up until Dany et al arrive at Dragonstone.
2. Dany flying ahead doing recon spots the iron fleet and warns her ships. Then she decides to attack the ships. But as they are diving they reveal the scorpions that were hidden beneath tarps and unleash a volley of 30+ scorpions from CLOSE range. They dodge duck dip dive and dodge but Rhaegal is still hit and mortally wounded while Dany and Drogon escape with only a minor wound. But Dany calls off the attack. The iron fleet proceeds to attack the Targ fleet as they are trying to flee. And as they sail thru the wreckage after you seem them scoop up Missandei who cannot swim and is holding onto something in fear so as not to drown.

*End of episode with dramatic Rhaegal death and Missandei captured.

Ep5 - a NEW episode titled "Betrayals" 60 mins with 20 mins from Ep 4, 20 new minutes, and 20 minutes from previous Ep 5.

* these things were previously at the end of Ep. 4
  • start with Dany wanting to attack immediately. Advisors tell her to wait for armies. she is pissed.
  • Varys and Tyrion discussion and his treasonous thoughts
  • Jamie gets word in WF and heads off to KL. but his motivation is unclear (?TBD)
  • The meeting outside KL, Missandei is killed, more anger...Daenerys storms off

*new stuff about 20 mins
1. (2 min) It goes a few days (we are told, or some montage) and Dany grows tired of waiting for her armies. Her anger is seething we see in her demeanor. Refuses to talk to anyone.
2. (5 mins) Dany leaves on Drogon and flies recon seeing her armies approaching and scouting the KL defenses from high above. But she also spots someone else, a lone rider moving fast down the Kingsroad.
3. (5 mins) Upon her return she sends a small group with Grey Worm on a mission - they capture Jaime en route and Dany wants to execute him for response to Missandei but Tyrion convinces her he could be useful in negotiating Cerei/KL surrender.
4. (2 mins) Privately Dany is alone and not eating. Her thoughts on losing another Dragon and Missandei are expressed. We also see her having dreams of betrayals although fictional they are real to her and she thinks they foretell of what is coming. Her anger grows but she is more isolated than ever.
5. (5 min) Still frustrated and waiting Dany has Tyrion attempt another meeting with Qyburn - Davos sneaks him in and they meet in private beneath the RK. Tyrion offers Jaime in exchange for their surrender. Qyburn says no dice. Tyrion begs Qyburn for his brothers sake and says Cersei still loves him she is just mad but they can be exiled.

* remainder of episode is taken from first 20 minutes or so of Ep. 5 (The Bells)
  • We see Varys beg jon to do the right thing, he refuses says she is their queen
  • We see Varys writing letters and maybe even the poison thing but it fails
  • Dany learns of Varys plot from Tyrion
  • Varys is executed
  • Dany expresses betrayal of Jon and Tyrions mistake on Jaime's intentions
  • Tyrion visits Jaime and let's him escape


Ep6 - "The Bells" 70ish minutes (trimming the 20 mins moved to the episode above and adding maybe 10 mins).

1. (2 mins) We see Dany find out about Tyrion letting Jaime escape via Grey Worm. She leaves in a fury.

Battle proceeds as we saw she torches the ships, etc. and KL gates. They attack and overwhelm them and are on the verge of them surrendering as we saw.

2. (1 min) But when the bells ring Dany is seething and just then she sees Cersei and Jaime in the parapet window of the RK. Cersei is smirking. *Dany is much closer to the RK in this version and can see them clearly.
3. (2 mins) Cersei and Jaime suddenly part and Qyburn behind them fires a last Scorpion weapon from the top of the Red Keep tower. Dany yells "DRACARYS" and Drogon disintegrates the shaft of the spear in flight with the tip clattering below him harmlessly. Qyburn start reloading the weapon.....

(mostly what we saw but a different order) Dany now takes off attacking the RK tower first and all of it as Jamie and Cersei and Qyburn and the Mountain head down the stairs and it is collapsing around them. This is what triggers Grey Worm to resume the attack as well. The Hound let's Jaime and Cersei past. Cleganebowl happens as we saw it.

4. (2 mins) Jon makes it to the RK and enters in time to see Jamie and Cersei go down the tunnels. He follows cautiously and gets there in time to see the collapse that kills Jamie and Cersei. He escapes back out the way he came.
5. (2 mins) Jon runs out of the Red Keep and signals to Dany that it is over now. She lands with Drogon but is still seething. She sees Tyrion there too now - Jon tells him Cersei and Jamie are dead and where they are and he heads into the RK. Dany snears at Tyrion visibly still angry.

At this point Dany is gone - and we've seen more than enough to convince us of that. She takes off on Drogon and proceeds to torch KL like we saw.

end of the episode the city is in ruins still

Ep7 - "The Iron Throne"
80 mins mostly the same but one plot change but no added time really

Mostly as we saw it. She still gives her militaristic battle speech and talks of attacking more places, etc. Tyrion still furious because the battle was won and she did not have to torch the city. He resigns and tosses down the pin of the Hand. She promotes Grey Worm as military commander. Jon visits Tyrion. Everyone implores jon to kill her. Jon begs Dany to have mercy and let Tyrion go. Jon kills her as before but is not captured. He disappears. They know he killed her because he was the last one allowed entry. Maybe even have Grey Worm find out Jon was there and he goes to see what Drogon is angry about and sees her dead before Dragon takes off.

Now the rest plays out with the council and Bran etc. But Jon is not a captive. Tyrion is made hand to Bran, etc... the small council has discussions about the whereabouts of Drogon and also Jon. Nobody knows. The Unsullied and Dothraki decide to leave. Last scene is Jon showing up alone at the wall and greeted by Tormund and Ghost reunion. He and the wildlings leave for the north on their own. Jon didn't want to rule anything and he is not a Stark and he is the last Targ but he wants none of it. And it removes any Night's Watch and Castle Black stuff.


I don't know - while Dany's justification and turn are better laid out here then you have the issue of whether it is enough to justify Jon killing her. she would have to be obviously borderline insane i suppose.


OldShadeOfBlue
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MuckRaker96 said:

SAtxag16 said:

I just can't get over that no one even brought up the fact that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen in the end.
Being a Targaryen isn't worth much to the people who just experienced a Targaryen ruthlessly murder tens of thousands of innocent people.

Robert Baratheon was the last legit king, if anything Gendry should have been pushed forward as king.
Bran to Sam and Jon Episode 1: Jon should be king but I don't care
Sansa to Tyrion Episode 4: Jon should be king
Tyrion to Jon 20 minutes into season finale: I was wrong, Varys was right, you should be king
Tyrion to council 40 minutes into season finale: Bran should be king
Bran 41 minutes in: I came down here to be king
Sansa 42 minutes in: I don't care about any of this, I should be Queen of the North
Bran 43 minutes in: I don't want to be king but okay


Brian Earl Spilner
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So I recently rewatched the Matrix trilogy, and found some interesting parallels with the final season of GoT. Stay with me on this.

"The One" is a subroutine that is on an endless loop. The last part of the sub was to go into the door on the left in the Architect's room, at which point the loop starts again, which lasts roughly 100 years. (The purpose of that loop was to purge the code of all the people who had rejected the Matrix in the past 100 years and would otherwise cause a system crash.)

The Oracle & the prophecy were both bull**** to get The One to go on the intended loop, and the powers of The One were just part of his programming, given in order for him to have a Messiah complex.

Neo took the door on the right and finally broke that loop.

How does it relate to GoT?

The Oracle = Bran. The PTWP prophecy is bull**** and he knows it. He puts Jon (and others) on their paths that will ultimately lead to him on the throne / "breaking the wheel".

Him telling him about his heritage was just "part of the plan..." *Joker voice*

As for the endless loop -- pretty much sounds like winter / The Long Night. Every time they "defeated" the WW, they just kept coming back. It was an endless cycle.
OldShadeOfBlue
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ac04 said:

i don't think i'll ever get past drogon melting the iron throne. probably the dumbest part of any tv show i've ever watched.
I get it. But in the moment it felt awkward. Kinda similar to everything else this season. Like, when I'm watching it, it just feels off and then I have to go back later and talk myself into understanding why something happened in order to feel better about it. I shouldn't have to do that.
swc93
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Could have been worse...Drogon could have spoke.
bthomas98
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BowSowy said:

Cepe said:

A few of my thoughts:

1) I'm good with Bran being king. It's called Game of Thrones and he played the game better than anyone.

2) I don't think D&D knew Bran was the one until later in the series and thought "oh ****" and had to figure out how to make it happen.

3) I think they tried to have a huge plot twist at the end with Bran but executed it poorly.

4) I think they got lost in over-directing the final season (11 straight weeks of filming every night for the Long Night!!) and lost track of the actual story line when they had to edit it together.
How? His character was laughably useless almost the entire series. He didn't scheme, he didn't build relationships. He didn't play anything in the show


Haha. He won the Survivor jury vote by being near the actual game players but not pissing off any of the jury
BenFiasco14
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swc93 said:

Could have been worse...Drogon could have spoke.
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
OldShadeOfBlue
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jeffdjohnson said:

Good episode. Season 8 is getting overly picked apart. For me the spectacle outweighs many of the rushed or poor story telling elements. "Blame" GRRM if anyone. The show runners had the skill to craft the best television show of all time when they had books as reference. They didn't lose their skill. They lost their source. Frankly, if GRRM himself can't write a satisfying ending, then Seasons 7/8 were not going to live up to what preceded it. Even still some of the best scenes in the entire series happened in Season 8. Arya and the Night King. The John and Dany kiss of death. Yeah it wasn't as good as Seasons 1-6 but it was still a damn good show.
Why would you blame GRRM for the show?? The dude writes 800 page novels like every 5 years. It had already been 5 years since the last book was published before D&D chose to do this thing. If anything fault D&D for not waiting until the material was done.
bonfarr
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CostanzaWallet said:

I can't believe some people are so hung up on the Night's Watch. Jon got to castle black, there were no other night's watch men there, the freefolk are waiting for him, he leaves with the freefolk, and shuts the gate behind him. Homeboy ain't coming back, he's living out his days north of the wall. They even showed a blade of grass, indicating that the snow will melt and the freefolk will be enjoying some choice lands.

He may even find himself a new red headed wildling woman to make babies with.

So who shut the gate behind him them if there were no e left? There were 2 men of the Night's Watch that escorted him from KL to Castle Black.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
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