I agree, it was an OK episode but not particularly memorable. I did enjoy the scenes with the Doctor lecturing as a college professor. Since this is supposedly Capaldi's last season I expect the episodes will pick up speed pretty quickly. At least I hope so.

Best season opener since season 5.

I loved the season premier. There's much better chemistry between The Doctor and Bill than there was with him and Clara. Oh, how I couldn't stand Clara, at least w/ Capaldi. I'm hoping Moffat doesn't just phone it in this last season. I feel the writing for Capaldi has already been sub-par to this point, which is a shame because I love Capaldi. But, finally getting rid of Clara should help tremendously.

Heard a rumor that they are bringing back the First Doctor (will be played by David Bradley) for the Christmas special. That has led to speculation that the Christmas special will circle back to the 50th anniversary special when all 13 Doctors joined together to save Gallifrey. This would mean that when we saw Capaldi's eyebrows in that scene, that is shortly before he regenerates.

I liked this second episode until the last 10 minutes.

What a crock of a resolution.

**** those robots. **** the Doctor and his sanctimonious bull*****

I hated it because the doctor dared to lecture the colonists about having to live with the robots after:
1. The robots were committing murder
and more importantly
2. After he had just killed one
AND
3. Wiped the memory of an entire sentient species, and then proceeded to lecture the colonists about having to deal with them. He did not bother to try to reason with them, especially as they were a sentient species. He just treated them like things, wiped their memories, and called it a day.

Not everyone gets to hit the reset button, Doctor.

**** him.

Liked the episode. Thought it was good. Really love the chemistry between the Doctor and Bill.

Oh I blame Moffat for my dislike of Clara. She was fine with Smith, at least early on. But just never clicked with Capaldi. The Danny Pink storyline was what really ruined her for me.

Moffat.

I liked the Amy saga for the most part.

NEVER liked Clara other than as eye candy.

Hated the character. Hated the personality. Hated how she was always all-knowing and smug.

She was a plot convenience AND contrivance.

aTmLoKi said:

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Moffat.

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In Moffat's defense, he has written some absolutely amazing episodes.

RetiredAg said:

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aTmLoKi said:

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Moffat.

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In Moffat's defense, he has written some absolutely amazing episodes.

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He is very hit or miss for me and it is either great or terrible, not much in between.

More miss than hit lately for me.

powerbelly51 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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aTmLoKi said:

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Moffat.

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In Moffat's defense, he has written some absolutely amazing episodes.

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He is very hit or miss for me.

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But that is the case through out the rebirth of the show. The Davies era also had its share of clunkers and IMO more out right horrible episodes. Some seem to excuse these due to having a smaller budget in which to work. I never minded cheesy effects with Doctor Who as long as the story was good.

As for Clara, she was bossy and assertive from the get go even Oswin and Victorian Clara. I think they wanted to explore a companion acting like The Doctor which did not quite work because that has not been the role of companions throughout the history of the show. As for her uncanny insight during the Capaldi era, could that not be explained in that she retained at least subconsciously all the Claras who repaired the Doctor's time stream In the Name of the Doctor?

powerbelly51 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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aTmLoKi said:

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Moffat.

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In Moffat's defense, he has written some absolutely amazing episodes.

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He is very hit or miss for me and it is either great or terrible, not much in between.

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Agree completely with this. I'm excited to see how Chibnall does. We've just finished the first two seasons of Broadchurch, which were fantastic (especially season 1), so I'm curious to see his work w/ Doctor Who. The episodes he's done haven't been great, but they haven't been terrible. Just really solid, IMO.

I can see Chibnall doing a better job of "show running" than script writing. Most of Moffat's scripts have been pretty great on the whole. (exceptions are there, obviously). That said, the direction of the show seemed to drift after Smith regenerated and it could be argued it began before that. I think that had to do with Moffat having a bit too much on his plate. Series 8 and series 9 have some fantastic on off episodes, and the series are not even "terrible", but the whole thing hasn't held together too well in quite a number of years.

I'm hopeful with this being Moffat's last run through he finds a way of guiding this to a more worth while conclusion.

I liked 'Smile' though not as much as The Pilot. I found the resolution to be a bit deus ex machina. Also, I was hoping Bill's realizing that something bad must've happened to all of humanity would come to play more in the episode - but all it did was provide a good scene for Mackie to express some emotion in.

Looking forward to next week, as always.

jkag89 said:

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powerbelly51 said:

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RetiredAg said:

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aTmLoKi said:

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Moffat.

---

In Moffat's defense, he has written some absolutely amazing episodes.

---

He is very hit or miss for me.

---

But that is the case through out the rebirth of the show. The Davies era also had its share of clunkers and IMO more out right horrible episodes. Some seem to excuse these due to having a smaller budget in which to work. I never minded cheesy effects with Doctor Who as long as the story was good.

As for Clara, she was bossy and assertive from the get go even Oswin and Victorian Clara. I think they wanted to explore a companion acting like The Doctor which did not quite work because that has not been the role of companions throughout the history of the show. As for her uncanny insight during the Capaldi era, could that not be explained in that she retained at least subconsciously all the Claras who repaired the Doctor's time stream In the Name of the Doctor?

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I think it's odd to talk about the role of companions through the history of the show given the variety of roles ranging from Donna to Leela to Lethbrdge-Stewart to Romana. Not to mention the secondary companions.

What I see as the primary role of any of the companions despite the diversity of characters is that they were used as the voice of the viewers. They asked the questions we might ask, express the emotions we might feel, etc., but they rarely drove the action or provided the solution to whatever peril The Doctor and they were facing. Clara more than any companion that I can remember (my exposure to show before the 9th Doctor is limited primarily to Tom Baker and most of that was 40 years ago when I was a kid) had greater insight in a lot of situations than The Doctor himself and was often the mainspring of any action taken.

jkag89 said:

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What I see as the primary role of any of the companions despite the diversity of characters is that they were used as the voice of the viewers. They asked the questions we might ask, express the emotions we might feel, etc., but they rarely drove the action or provided the solution to whatever peril The Doctor and they were facing. Clara more than any companion that I can remember (my exposure to show before the 9th Doctor is limited primarily to Tom Baker and most of that was 40 years ago when I was a kid) had greater insight in a lot of situation than The Doctor himself and was often the mainspring of any action taken.

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That's an interesting point about reflecting the viewers' voice. I have to think about whether I agree overall and whether I think Clara was really an outlier.

In terms of driving the action, though, I'm not sure how you can say that. It seems to me that the majority of the post-reboot companions have been central to the story arcs, especially Rose, Amy, and Clara. But Martha saves the world and the Doctor a couple of times too. Some of that is just the trend to having more series-long story arcs vs standalone episodes vs the old days.

I think the main weakness for Clara was not her character, but the plots after Capaldi became the Doctor. The Danny Pink plot has been mentioned; it's just a mess. But the other big difference, IMO, especially in following Amy is that for the most part there was no secondary companion. Amy had Rory and River Song.

Personally, my least favorite companion of the post-reboot ones is Donna. Too much shouting and screaming for my taste, but others like her. Like you, I started with Tom Baker, but I watched through Davison and caught a lot of Pertwee in reruns around that time. I think that's when it took off in the US. From my memories of that era, Peri Brown was the weakest.

Do you think of River as a companion?

This was the first episode ever where I had a few slight cases of not getting the accents. Just a word or two missed here or there.

I think it was the audio mix of this episode.

The episodes so far have been solid. Nothing spectacular, but nothing weak. There were some really good moments in this latest episode. So refreshing to see a companion again that has chemistry with the Doctor.

I am interested to see what is in the vault.

powerbelly51 said:

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I am interested to see what is in the vault.

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For such a small amount of screen time, that has been one of the more intriguing parts of this season so far.

My guess is John Simm's Master

SeattleAgJr said:

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My guess is John Simm's Master

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That was my initial thought. Then again, there were only 3 knocks, which led me to start thinking it wasn't him.

RetiredAg said:

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The episodes so far have been solid. Nothing spectacular, but nothing weak. There were some really good moments in this latest episode. So refreshing to see a companion again that has chemistry with the Doctor.

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I always liked Clara but I do find Bill very refreshing. I'm very intrigued by The Doctor's interest in her. In the past companions were somewhat stumbled upon, this isn't the case with Bill although I guess The Doctor didn't plan to travel with her but only further her education. Still, why and is it tied with what is locked in the vault? While I liked the first episode of this season, the brief glimpse of the episode in the teaser trailers led me to believe there might be an episode dealing with the creatures from "The Waters of Mars." I agree there were some really excellent moments in this weekend's episode.

RetiredAg said:

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SeattleAgJr said:

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My guess is John Simm's Master

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That was my initial thought. Then again, there were only 3 knocks, which led me to start thinking it wasn't him.

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I am thinking today's episode confirms this.

The knocks are no longer relevant.

For me, I haven't been disappointed. I also haven't been blown away. I think this past episode was like all the others so far. Not great. Not bad. Just solid. Much more consistently solid episodes than through the Clara period, but no Zygon Inversion quality episode, or moment, either.

But I love Bill and the Doctor so far. Just nothing spectacular about the episodes themselves.

I enjoyed all the episodes so far, no wow episodes but no bad ones either. I really ejoyed how they introduced Bill as a companion in these episodes. The disappointment with these episodes might come from the long hiatus between Series 9 & Series 10. Hopefully the set up of why The Doctor's interest in Bill and what is in the vault will not disappoint.

I'd be ok if they finished out Capaldi/Moffat with a bunch of one-off stories like this last one. No more "lets completely change the The Doctor 's character so he spends 4 gaziillion years punching through the hardest diamond in the universe for the love of a woman who suddenly just randomly blows him off to run off with another supporting character."

ChiliBeans said:

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I'd be ok if they finished out Capaldi/Moffat with a bunch of one-off stories like this last one. No more "lets completely change the The Doctor 's character so he spends 4 gaziillion years punching through the hardest diamond in the universe for the love of a woman who suddenly just randomly blows him off to run off with another supporting character."

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Yeah that was something that bothered me. He spent 4 billion years punching his way through a wall to get to Clara, yet he couldn't land the TARDIS in New Jersey then catch a cab over to pick up Rory and Amy? And he did that for a girl that just basically left him, as you pointed out, to go run around with someone else. I get the "wibbly wobbly" nature of time travel, but it just seems like some effort could have been made to save them. He had already gone back once, and that was when the Angels had NY basically shut off to him. Just seems like they could have at least had them go away in a way that didn't have such plot holes.

RetiredAg said:

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ChiliBeans said:

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I'd be ok if they finished out Capaldi/Moffat with a bunch of one-off stories like this last one. No more "lets completely change the The Doctor 's character so he spends 4 gaziillion years punching through the hardest diamond in the universe for the love of a woman who suddenly just randomly blows him off to run off with another supporting character."

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Yeah that was something that bothered me. He spent 4 billion years punching his way through a wall to get to Clara, yet he couldn't land the TARDIS in New Jersey then catch a cab over to pick up Rory and Amy? And he did that for a girl that just basically left him, as you pointed out, to go run around with someone else. I get the "wibbly wobbly" nature of time travel, but it just seems like some effort could have been made to save them. He had already gone back once, and that was when the Angels had NY basically shut off to him. Just seems like they could have at least had them go away in a way that didn't have such plot holes.

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To be fair to Clara, The Doctor was going to wipe her memories of their travels together in order to keep her safe (the whole "duty of care" mantra). At that point further travels together were not going happen, The Doctor made that choice. I agree the Series 9 finale was very muddled, there were parts I liked but as a whole it was a mess. While part of me likes the idea of Clara and Me traveling all of time and space on the long way around back to Gallifrey, it really takes away from the two excellent episodes that preceded it.