Star Wars Discussion Thread

4,231,844 Views | 36549 Replies | Last: 26 min ago by Keegan99
AliasMan02
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CoachRTM said:


The Rise of Skywalker wasn't great, but Abrams was forced into a corner with a bunch of mis-managed s*** that he had to wrap up with only 2+ hours to do it. Rian Johnson taking a left turn (that's what it seems like anyway) on some of the plot points in the second movie ruined the whole trilogy to me because it basically forced the third movie to be a hodge-podge of story wrap up.



All the "left turn" plot points you're referring to were created by JJ, not RJ.

- Luke abandoning the galaxy
- An unbreakable schism between Ben and Luke
- Luke not immediately returning when Han was murdered or when a whole system was wiped out
- Luke not being able to be physically present for the final confrontation
- An entire massive invading army with superweapons just hanging out waiting to be unleashed on the galaxy
- Rey's identity as a nobody and her incredible innate power
Etc

That stuff is all JJ. RJ took it and ran with it. I get that the recurring theme of subverted expectations rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and that was all RJ. I get not liking the type of Star Wars movie TLJ was. But people pin a ton on the wrong guy. JJ made a mess of a lot of things in TFA and did a horrible job with TROS.
TCTTS
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AliasMan02 said:

CoachRTM said:


The Rise of Skywalker wasn't great, but Abrams was forced into a corner with a bunch of mis-managed s*** that he had to wrap up with only 2+ hours to do it. Rian Johnson taking a left turn (that's what it seems like anyway) on some of the plot points in the second movie ruined the whole trilogy to me because it basically forced the third movie to be a hodge-podge of story wrap up.



All the "left turn" plot points you're referring to were created by JJ, not RJ.

- Luke abandoning the galaxy
- An unbreakable schism between Ben and Luke
- Luke not immediately returning when Han was murdered or when a whole system was wiped out
- Luke not being able to be physically present for the final confrontation
- An entire massive invading army with superweapons just hanging out waiting to be unleashed on the galaxy
- Rey's identity as a nobody and her incredible innate power
Etc

That stuff is all JJ. RJ took it and ran with it. I get that the recurring theme of subverted expectations rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and that was all RJ. I get not liking the type of Star Wars movie TLJ was. But people pin a ton on the wrong guy. JJ made a mess of a lot of things in TFA and did a horrible job with TROS.


All great points and well said, but the bold is actually straight from Lucas' Episode VII plan/outline. This whole thing was a series of train wrecks from the get-go, that just kept compounding.
redline248
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My son likes watching stop motion lego videos featuring the clone wars. I found this video, tonight, and the first part talking about the cyclops jedi seemed relevant

AliasMan02
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True, and that's worthy of note.
TCTTS
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What sucks is that Luke could have been disgruntled and upset with the Jedi, yet STILL could have been the mentor figure/Obi-Wan of the sequel trilogy, not a hermit, etc. I don't know why "disgruntled" had to equal "abandons the galaxy" in Lucas'/Abrams' minds. Qui-Gonn was disgruntled, but still tried to buck the system, didn't give up on the galaxy, etc. Luke could have done the same. He could have seen Rey or Finn or whoever start to go down the "arrogant Jedi" path and been the positive figure in their lives who challenged them and taught them and simply didn't want to see the mistakes of the past repeated, WHILE b*tching about all the same things Luke b*tches about in TLJ. It was such a dumb core idea to see him take himself completely off the chessboard.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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TCTTS said:

Guys. They're NEVER going to leave the OT/PT intact, but redo only the ST. That scenario is completely untethered from reality. The closest thing we'll get to a new ST is whatever The Mandalorian and its spin-offs are leading to.


But I promise you, at some point, they'll remake the entire saga over again from scratch, across both film and streaming. The industry has already/essentially accepted this an inevitability. The world will be a vastly different place in 20-30 years, and the way in which we cherish the OT will be something mostly only old people and film buffs hold on to.

In 2047, Star Wars will be 70 YEARS OLD. There's not a chance in hell it isn't remade in that time.


With a few more words in all caps this could have made a great article on supershadow's website.
TCTTS
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You should have seen my initial pass.
Brian Earl Spilner
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TCTTS said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

First of all, they'll never remake the OT.


I would bet literally any amount of money that not only the OT, but the PT as well, will be remade at some point in the next 20 to 30 years. It's too valuable a franchise, and too iconic of a story, not to keep milking it/recycling it. Especially the better theaters and special effects get, and we've settled on whatever the next iteration of theater-going is (like, say, glasses-less 3D or whatever). In combination with streaming, it'll be some massive, multi-platform redo for a new generation.


I'd take that bet.

To clarify, SW will absolutely continue to exist.
AliasMan02
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Eventually the format that the classic Star Wars films are currently enjoyed won't be popular. Disney/Lucasfilm won't allow Star Wars to rot on the vine. They'll revamp, and even remake, Star Wars to attract the largest/most profitable audience.
Brian Earl Spilner
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So they'll remake the OT in a series of tiktoks?
ChipFTAC01
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Was anyone aware of a Warwick Davis/Ricky Gervais/Steven Merchant project on HBO called Life's Too Short?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life's_Too_Short_(TV_series)?wprov=sfti1
Quad Dog
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Don't forget that Lucas' plan before he sold to Disney was to rerelease all 6 movies to theatres converted to 3D. He got as far as Phantom Menace in 3D bombing before he sold. Based on his history there would have probably been other things "fixed" or changed in those releases for any of those movies like he did with the Special Editions.
AliasMan02
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

So they'll remake the OT in a series of tiktoks?

Essentially, yes.
PatAg
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AliasMan02 said:

CoachRTM said:


The Rise of Skywalker wasn't great, but Abrams was forced into a corner with a bunch of mis-managed s*** that he had to wrap up with only 2+ hours to do it. Rian Johnson taking a left turn (that's what it seems like anyway) on some of the plot points in the second movie ruined the whole trilogy to me because it basically forced the third movie to be a hodge-podge of story wrap up.



All the "left turn" plot points you're referring to were created by JJ, not RJ.

- Luke abandoning the galaxy
- An unbreakable schism between Ben and Luke
- Luke not immediately returning when Han was murdered or when a whole system was wiped out
- Luke not being able to be physically present for the final confrontation
- An entire massive invading army with superweapons just hanging out waiting to be unleashed on the galaxy
- Rey's identity as a nobody and her incredible innate power
Etc

That stuff is all JJ. RJ took it and ran with it. I get that the recurring theme of subverted expectations rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, and that was all RJ. I get not liking the type of Star Wars movie TLJ was. But people pin a ton on the wrong guy. JJ made a mess of a lot of things in TFA and did a horrible job with TROS.

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?

I think if Last Jedi completely re-wrote Finn's story line, which would include cutting Rose and the casion subplot, the movie would be greatly improved. I was also not a fan of the choices involved with Poe's story line, they didnt really make sense either.

A real ballsy choice would have been to have Leia be the one to sacrifice herself instead of Holdo.

I still think that Ryan's primary flaw was not getting the feel of the movie right. The humor was not right from the get-go. (specifically the 'prank call' scene). That being said, he did create some amazing visuals in this movie.

I don't hate the movie like some people, and I'm still looking forward to seeing any movies he makes. He just seemed more interested in subverting the audience's expectations for the sake of it, than anything.
PatAg
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I wonder if they will attempt another sequel on the main story line, or if these characters are just done?
hunter2012
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They really should refer to some of the books for movie ideas, reboots and reruns are a terrible idea for the long run and I'd bet Disney is already seeing diminishing returns with their live action remakes. If you want to be creatively lazy just film some of the books, there are some great options....

2 simple blockbuster ideas that have already been critical successes:

Make a Heir to the Empire trilogy, Thrawn is already canon so they just need to bridge the gap and make the story. This seems like the biggest no brainer.

Make a stand alone movie to Lords of the Sith, Take Vader in the Rogue One hallway and Palpatine throwing the Senate at Yoda and put them in a survival scenario against nature and rebel scum. Starts with a Epic Space dogfight, and ends with the Sith going ham on a horde of bloodthristy Xenomorphs(basically). Surprisingly upbeat ending for the Rebels as well so it's not too dark.

Bonus idea, is to make a limited series for Lost Stars, this would let each episode make the necessary time jumps in the story. It's basically a story about talented proteges whose story takes place against the backdrop of the original trilogy. The OT serves as the setting and sets the pace as larger events that the characters must react to. Start on their home planet and do each episode against the backdrop of the respective movie. Rogue One could even be tied in for stretching the book story. With good actors the lead duo could carry this story easily. It would also give the movie-makers the self gratifying chance of splicing in OT clips into the show Forest Gump style(or Trible style of you've watched DS9).

Hopefully if/when they can get KK out some of these will become a real possibility.
hunter2012
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Quote:

I don't hate the movie like some people, and I'm still looking forward to seeing any movies he makes. He just seemed more interested in subverting the audience's expectations for the sake of it, than anything.

This is fine for a stand alone movie, but the middle movie in a massively big blockbuster trilogy is the worse place for it. It undermined the first movie and turns the third movie into damage control. The JJ, "We should have had a plan" was the biggest "no duh" postmortem out of Hollywood this century.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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If they do Heir to the Empire, I want Danny McBride for Talon Kardde.
Red Five
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I think almost every choice made for TLJ was the wrong choice. It's an impressive feat.
Whos Juan
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ChipFTAC01 said:

Was anyone aware of a Warwick Davis/Ricky Gervais/Steven Merchant project on HBO called Life's Too Short?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life's_Too_Short_(TV_series)?wprov=sfti1

Red Five
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"I wasn't here. I was at the doctor. Because I have AIDS."

One of the funniest scenes ever on TV.
redline248
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Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
PatAg
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redline248 said:

Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
Ok, then we don't know what JJ would have done in a 2nd movie. My point was that you cant blame JJ for Rian's choices in the 2nd movie like that person tried to do.
The Debt
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FWIW in the debate of which film was worse, I could not finish TLJ. I have tried to finish it three times but I usually fall asleep when they make it to their "last stand planet" usually with the sandspeeders.

At least I could finish watching ROS...
JCRiley09
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So the part where there are some pretty good war trench scenes and (phantom) Luke MF'ing Skywalker shows up? Of all the complaints about TLJ, I've heard very few (not counting rose/Finn) about the end of the movie
hunter2012
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PatAg said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
Ok, then we don't know what JJ would have done in a 2nd movie. My point was that you cant blame JJ for Rian's choices in the 2nd movie like that person tried to do.
I blame Lucasfilm for dropping the ball, it would not have been hard to have one creative director make some broad strokes and frame the larger story of the trilogy.
PatAg
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hunter2012 said:

PatAg said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
Ok, then we don't know what JJ would have done in a 2nd movie. My point was that you cant blame JJ for Rian's choices in the 2nd movie like that person tried to do.
I blame Lucasfilm for dropping the ball, it would not have been hard to have one creative director make some broad strokes and frame the larger story of the trilogy.
1000000000000% agree
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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hunter2012 said:

PatAg said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
Ok, then we don't know what JJ would have done in a 2nd movie. My point was that you cant blame JJ for Rian's choices in the 2nd movie like that person tried to do.
I blame Lucasfilm for dropping the ball, it would not have been hard to have one creative director make some broad strokes and frame the larger story of the trilogy.
I'm pretty sure I read that Lucas had a trilogy outline for the ST but Disney said "thanks, no thanks"?
TCTTS
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Right. They kept the Luke-is-a-hermit-on-an-island-visited-by-Rey thing (which Lucas had for VII not VIII) and ditched everything else.
AliasMan02
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TCTTS said:

Right. They kept the Luke-is-a-hermit-on-an-island-visited-by-Rey thing (which Lucas had for VII not VIII) and ditched everything else.

Keep in mind that Lucas said (and he can not be trusted AT ALL) that his ST would have been all about midichlorians and stuff, diving deep into that.
powerbelly
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

hunter2012 said:

PatAg said:

redline248 said:

Quote:

Strike those two, because we don't know what JJ had in mind for the 2nd movie right?
JJ had nothing in mind for the 2nd movie. They already had Johnson lined up to direct and no plan for the major story. He didn't give a damn what the 2nd movie was going to do.
Ok, then we don't know what JJ would have done in a 2nd movie. My point was that you cant blame JJ for Rian's choices in the 2nd movie like that person tried to do.
I blame Lucasfilm for dropping the ball, it would not have been hard to have one creative director make some broad strokes and frame the larger story of the trilogy.
I'm pretty sure I read that Lucas had a trilogy outline for the ST but Disney said "thanks, no thanks"?
I feel like that would have been worse than what we got.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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I wasn't attempting to convince anyone of the quality of whatever plans Lucas might have had, just that he at least had a plan. What we got was so disjointed as to be so incredibly disappointing and forgettable. I say that as a life-long Star Wars nut.
AliasMan02
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

I wasn't attempting to convince anyone of the quality of whatever plans Lucas might have had, just that he at least had a plan. What we got was so disjointed as to be so incredibly disappointing and forgettable. I say that as a life-long Star Wars nut.


Lucas didn't have a plan for either of his two other trilogies (or if he did he threw away the plan very early), so I don't see why you would believe anything he says about some grand plan for the ST.
jokershady
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AliasMan02 said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

I wasn't attempting to convince anyone of the quality of whatever plans Lucas might have had, just that he at least had a plan. What we got was so disjointed as to be so incredibly disappointing and forgettable. I say that as a life-long Star Wars nut.


Lucas didn't have a plan for either of his two other trilogies (or if he did he threw away the plan very early), so I don't see why you would believe anything he says about some grand plan for the ST.
which should be evidence enough in ESB with Luke and Leia tongue wrestling and then revealed they're brother and sister in RotJ
Brian Earl Spilner
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Quad Dog said:

Don't forget that Lucas' plan before he sold to Disney was to rerelease all 6 movies to theatres converted to 3D. He got as far as Phantom Menace in 3D bombing before he sold. Based on his history there would have probably been other things "fixed" or changed in those releases for any of those movies like he did with the Special Editions.
TPM 3D made $102M worldwide, with the only cost being a fairly simple 3D conversion of the existing Blu-ray version of the movie. So it nowhere near bombed.

The 3D rereleases were cancelled after the Disney purchase because they wanted to focus on fast-tracking Episode 7.
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