Future of GM and Ford

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mts6175
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AG
Might help maybe if the costs of their vehicles actually matched the inflation rate. The cost of their vehicles are up over 25% over the past three years. Unreal.

IMO, they are pricing themselves out of the marketplace for what they offer.

[This message has been edited by mts6175 (edited 4/20/2005 11:14a).]
aggiepaintrain
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AG
Get the feeling....
TOYOTA.


AgGrad99
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I've always held the attitude..."buy american" no matter what.

However, the price doesn't justify the product anymore....compared to the competition.
TK03
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I prefer automobiles which are not made out of steel or plastic, not rice. Therefore, I buy GM.

"TKO you're a piece of work." -- ontheway
Ag_B_10
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AG
TK03, So if not steel, plastic, or rice; what are they made of?
tamu2481
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I enjoy European models. I do still like American trucks though.
Chewy
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GM has got to cut some of their brands and models. They're basically competing against themselves on certain vehicles.

I know the old model was start off with a Chevy and work up through a Cadillac, but I don't think that works anymore because it's not clearly defined. There's much more competition so they need to focus on making a few models really well instead of offering so many.

They've lived off the profit margin of their SUVs, trucks, and luxury vehicles for a while now and with sales of those down, it's showing in the bottom line.
Buck Turgidson
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Their products are mostly ****. Full size pickups and a few niche vehicles are pretty much the last stand of the big 3. One day they might wake up and realize that it's THEIR responsibility to build the best cars in the world - it's not OUR responsibility to buy their second rate products.
aggieclass04
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i'm doing a case study on GM for my MGMT 466 semester project. have to find 3 strategic problems and come up with solutions. i'm in way over my head, there are about 25 problems with GM and the solutions all cost a ridiculous amount of money. the company sells 5 mid-size front wheel drive sedans and four mini-vans!

plus the UAW has them by the balls.
Kramer
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They have to deal with a more competitive market (Nissan, Toyota, now Honda).

They have to deal with gas prices (not buying a gas hog).

Plus all the issues listed above.

I'm about to buy a truck and all these things are on my mind.
Bosco
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I prefer automobiles which are not made out of steel or plastic, not rice. Therefore, I buy GM.


One of the more ignorant statements I've seen here.

From edmunds.com on the 2005 GMC Sierra:

Pros: Roomy crew cab can carry six passengers, strong 6.0-liter V8 engine, has the highest tow rating of any half-ton pickup, innovative features.

Cons: Spotty fit and finish, dated interior with low-grade materials.


AggieHMF
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We're doing our 466 case project on Ford, and we cannot believe some of the things that union workers demand and recieve. If I remember correctly, Janitors recieve about $26 per hour and all union membes are guaranteed benefits for life even if the plants close. One of the reasons that Ford does not make as much per vehicle is because they are required to buy parts from Visteon even though non union companies could offer them a better price. In addition, Visteon is guaranteed business from Ford and GM so there is no reason for them to invest more in quality. So, you have cars and trucks that dont last as long as the Japanese models and people are beginning to see that.
DiabloLS1
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Honda is not a competitor in the truck market. I consider Nissan to be strong, but the Titan is no different from my Silverado as far as power/mileage, etc. I don't really consider the Tundra a competitor.

GM and Ford's problem lies directly in the UAW. That damn labor union is ruining these companies, and doesn't care that it is doing so. The employees don't work hard and have no incentive to work hard. In my opinion, GM and Ford need to find a way to completely ditch the UAW.
kubiak03
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They should just say screw it and open up new factories in the south. They will finally get up to date factories and at the same time screw over the UAW.
XhotXwetXgarlic
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TXAGFAN
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Have u seen a chevy lately? There is so much plastic **** hanging off of them...

Don't even get me started.
Y02
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Any company that fronts the money to put a turd on wheels like the Chevy SSR into production is doomed.
PCAg
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S
You don't consider the Tundra a competitor?
Wow....
Goose
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I bet Ford and GM sure consider the Tundra a competitor.
PCAg
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S
I bet they do, too!
aggiepaintrain
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In 2 years Toyota will offer 3/4 & 1 Ton DIESEL trucks. Then it's OVER for GM & FORD & DODGE.
Chuy
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quote:
Future of GM and Ford




[This message has been edited by Chuy (edited 4/20/2005 2:34p).]
Fore Left!
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While making a truck superior in quality for a long time, Toyota was held back by the fact that they kept making their trucks look like riceburners (remember the hideaous T-100?). Now they are starting to look more and more like normal trucks. The new Tacoma is kicking some teeth in this year, and the Tundra keeps improving as well. Plus, now that they will be manufacturing pretty much all of them over here, it will help with the "but it's a jap car" argument some.

[This message has been edited by Bob the Enzyte Guy (edited 4/20/2005 2:39p).]
McInnis 03
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Yeah, no plastic here!

TXAGFAN
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^
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|
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Exactly what I am talking about.
kubiak03
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^those trucks are terrible loooking.
DiabloLS1
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I don't consider the Tundra a competitor in the full size heavy duty truck market. It is sort of in-between the S-10 and full size Chevy. The new Honda falls into the same category as well.

Full size: Silverado, F-Series, Ram, Titan
In-between: Ridgeline, Tundra, Dakota
Small: S-10, Ranger, Frontier, Tacoma
aggiepaintrain
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Diablo what planet are you from?
DiabloLS1
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You've obviously got a Toyota hard on. The current Tundra is in a different class, sorry.
ENG
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AG
I agree with Diablo. I truly believe there is too much owner loyalty with the Powerstrokes and the HD Chevy's for Japanese auto makers to break into that market and last.
aggiepaintrain
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Since you are the expert, read what Edmunds.com says.

The Tundra, Toyota's full-size truck, has been on sale since 2000. The Tundra competes against the Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra twins, the Dodge Ram, the Ford F-150 and the Nissan Titan. The Tundra has been a successful vehicle for Toyota.


Thread over.
Fore Left!
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i'm also trying to figure out how the Dakota would be considered a cut above the Tacoma, considering the dimensions are basically identical and the top Tacoma comes with 245HP while the top Dakota is at 230HP.
DiabloLS1
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compare these:

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications/

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2005/tundra/specs.html

You can't tell me that the Tundra can compete with the Big Dogs.
FarmerJohn
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The biggest problem with GM (and Ford) is the unions. GM also has to pay for pensions for tons of older workers. Without these requirements, I think that you would have seen GM eliminate a lot of unprofitable fluff years ago. And THEN try to rebuild market share. But they were too encumbured and couldn't afford to reduce their income.

Of course the other issue is with truely horrific vehicles. I went to the Indy 500 in 2003 and the official pace car was that SST, or as I call it El Camino's Revenge. It was booed. I repeat, the pace car was so ugly that it got booed. This was right after the invasion of Iraq and the crowd had been cheering all the different vets brought in. At this point, GM should have hit the panic button.

The other entertaining thing that GM does is every couple years they bring out this advertising slogan "We've been building crap for decades and screwing over our customers, but we've turned over a new leaf. Give us another chance." We are due for the next installment in 2006.

If GM wants to turn things around, they need to build off the one image that they have left, the muscle car. Like Ford and the new mustang, they need cars with low price, better performance, and styling that recalls the glory years. The GTO fiasco was the opposite of what they needed. Once these vehicles can find a market, use their components to build the higher margin luxery cars. If that fails, try to introduce unions to the Japanese. Because that's your only hope.

P.S.- The Tundra is a good vehicle but it isn't full sized. More like 3/4. Which isn't bad. Just not there yet. I will say that it won't be too long before Toyota starts partnering with some good American names. And then you can drive the final nail in the GM coffin.
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