FIU pedestrian bridge collapses days after installation; police say multiple deaths

27,731 Views | 193 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by SWCBonfire
Swarely
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2:51p, 3/15/18
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A pedestrian bridge under construction collapsed Thursday, just days after crews dropped an elevated 950-ton span in place in a project that was intended to give Florida International University students a safe route across the busy roadway.

The bridge crashed across six lanes of heavily traveled Tamiami Trail, crushing a still undetermined number of car and killing a still unclear number of people. Police on the scene said at least six people could be dead. The Florida Highway Patrol reported five or six cars were trapped under the bridge. Miami-Dade County police said at least eight cars had been crushed under the walkway, which was not yet open to student traffic.



http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/west-miami-dade/article205316174.html
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mwm
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3:09p, 3/15/18
How long will it be before we hear the inevitable cry to outlaw bridges? Or the concrete/steel with which they are made? Or the engineers that designed the bridge?

Seriously, T&P for all of the people & families involved in this tragedy.
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Bones08
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3:21p, 3/15/18
AG



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80s Guy
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In reply to Bones08 • 3:29p, 3/15/18
Bones08 said:





Dammit, Barnhart crane is a customer. Hope they don't get drug through the mud on this.
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NoahAg
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3:35p, 3/15/18
I'd be lying if I said I don't hold my breath a little when I'm stuck on a bridge for a few minutes.
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PrestigeWorldwideAg12
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In reply to NoahAg • 3:45p, 3/15/18
NoahAg said:
I'd be lying if I said I don't hold my breath a little when I'm stuck on a bridge for a few minutes.
would you have rather been on the bridge or underneath it?
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Bondag
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In reply to 80s Guy • 3:47p, 3/15/18
AG
Looks like the concrete columns were the failure, but I am sure everyone involved will be dragged through while they assign blame to others.
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oldschool87
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In reply to HBCanine08 • 3:55p, 3/15/18
AG
Not even close!
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AliasMan02
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In reply to Bondag • 3:55p, 3/15/18
AG
Bondag said:
Looks like the concrete columns were the failure, but I am sure everyone involved will be dragged through while they assign blame to others.


Really hard to see the failure mode with just before and after pictures, but the actual bridge didn't really have "columns." It's a truss sitting on piers.

Were I a gambling man, my money is on a failure of post-tension cables.

I don't really understand the construction of the bridge, though. The concepts show it as a cable stay (like the Margaret Hunt Hill, for you Dallasites). I assume that was changed, as there is no sign of a cable stay element here.

Prediction for media freak-out is over the term "accelerated" which will be widely and wildly misrepresented.
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CDUB98
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3:56p, 3/15/18
AG
The method of construction, Accelerated Bridge, did not cause this collapse. A bad design did.

Soon after it happened, me and another guy on my row (structural background) started trying to figure out what may have happened. Looking at the architectural rendering of the final design, it looks like this was only half the total bridge, and also is a cable stay bridge.

We are wondering if the bridge collapsed under its own weight because it was not designed for the construction phasing of not being fully supported. Obviously speculation, but things like this can be missed.

IF the bridge was properly designed for this temporary construction phase, then the materials will most certainly be eyed even closer than they already will be.

The approved concrete mix will be scrutinized. The tests at the concrete plant will be scrutinized. The rebar CMTR's will be poured over.

There are some seriously puckered butts right now, and for good reason. This stuff should not happen in this day and age.

But, to bring it back around, the construction method is not at fault here. It's how a lot of bridges we drive on are done.
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CDUB98
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3:58p, 3/15/18
AG
Quote:
Prediction for media freak-out is over the term "accelerated" which will be widely and wildly misrepresented.


Yup.

Bunch of dumbass reporters who can barely engineer their morning coffee will be making everyone believe this was unsafe.
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CDUB98
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In reply to Beer Baron • 3:59p, 3/15/18
AG
You're trying to hard at this point, BB.
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Beer Baron
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In reply to CDUB98 • 4:00p, 3/15/18
AG
Ok, Othertanya.
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CDUB98
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In reply to Beer Baron • 4:04p, 3/15/18
AliasMan02
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In reply to CDUB98 • 4:06p, 3/15/18
AG
CDUB98 said:
Soon after it happened, me and another guy on my row (structural background) started trying to figure out what may have happened. Looking at the architectural rendering of the final design, it looks like this was only half the total bridge, and also is a cable stay bridge.

We are wondering if the bridge collapsed under its own weight because it was not designed for the construction phasing of not being fully supported. Obviously speculation, but things like this can be missed.

IF the bridge was properly designed for this temporary construction phase, then the materials will most certainly be eyed even closer than they already will be.


Had the exact same discussion. Giving the benefit of the doubt for now, though, because that would be a huge miss for a bridge designer. Phasing is a normal design step in that segment.

As I said, I figure the cable stay portion shown in renderings was redesigned and eliminated. Would be a pretty typical cost savings to look at, as cable stays are expensive.
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superunknown
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In reply to HBCanine08 • 4:10p, 3/15/18
AG
HBCanine08 said:
About 20 minutes to politicize an event with an unrelated issue. That has to be a GB record.


Well it is spring break for most people. That's probably why it took so long
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Swarely
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In reply to PrestigeWorldwideAg12 • 4:13p, 3/15/18
PrestigeWorldwideAg12 said:
NoahAg said:
I'd be lying if I said I don't hold my breath a little when I'm stuck on a bridge for a few minutes.
would you have rather been on the bridge or underneath it?


On top no question.
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CDUB98
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 4:18p, 3/15/18
AG
AliasMan02 said:
CDUB98 said:
Soon after it happened, me and another guy on my row (structural background) started trying to figure out what may have happened. Looking at the architectural rendering of the final design, it looks like this was only half the total bridge, and also is a cable stay bridge.

We are wondering if the bridge collapsed under its own weight because it was not designed for the construction phasing of not being fully supported. Obviously speculation, but things like this can be missed.

IF the bridge was properly designed for this temporary construction phase, then the materials will most certainly be eyed even closer than they already will be.


Had the exact same discussion. Giving the benefit of the doubt for now, though, because that would be a huge miss for a bridge designer. Phasing is a normal design step in that segment.

As I said, I figure the cable stay portion shown in renderings was redesigned and eliminated. Would be a pretty typical cost savings to look at, as cable stays are expensive.


Looking at pictures of both ends, there is rebar sticking out, and also sticking out of that column. Definitely more concrete to be poured. I think the cable stay design was still there and this was only half.
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Builder93
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4:25p, 3/15/18
AG
You guys talk about the politicization. I saw this on twitter and the immediate response was about Trump and the infrastructure spending causing this. It's nuts. People who have no idea how the engineering process works are turning this into politics before the dead are extracted and the facts are discovered.

No matter who is in office, this should not be the response of a thinking person. I know, the thinking comment is a reach.
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Fonzie Scheme
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4:30p, 3/15/18
AG
No side of any argument has the market cornered on being an ******* after anything happens.
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AliasMan02
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4:38p, 3/15/18
AG
Local Fox affiliate saying that there was a stress test underway. That seems unlikely and I don't see any evidence of the typical equipment you'd use for such a test. Also unlikely that such a test would be done with live traffic, not just for safety, but because of the equipment that you'd prefer to have in the middle of the road.

Shep Smith said in a clip I saw that such a test would be to see if it could stand up to its hurricane load rating and sustainability specific, both of which are untrue and don't actually make sense.
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Bondag
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 4:43p, 3/15/18
AG
AliasMan02 said:
Local Fox affiliate saying that there was a stress test underway. That seems unlikely and I don't see any evidence of the typical equipment you'd use for such a test. Also unlikely that such a test would be done with live traffic, not just for safety, but because of the equipment that you'd prefer to have in the middle of the road.

Shep Smith said in a clip I saw that such a test would be to see if it could stand up to its hurricane load rating and sustainability specific, both of which are untrue and don't actually make sense.
Yea, you usually look at things like that before you install it.

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AliasMan02
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In reply to Bondag • 4:55p, 3/15/18
AG
And definitely not when the bridge is only half built.
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BostonAg74
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6:01p, 3/15/18
Quote:
No matter who is in office, this should not be the response of a thinking person
And Twitter is absolutely the last place you should go looking for a thinking person.
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Fonzie Scheme
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In reply to BostonAg74 • 6:07p, 3/15/18
AG
Helluva lot more likely to find one there than Facebook.
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BostonAg74
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In reply to Fonzie Scheme • 6:11p, 3/15/18
Fonzie Scheme said:
Helluva lot more likely to find one there than Facebook.
I don't do Facebook. I find that the most level headed and intelligent discussions on the Internet appear in YouTube comments.
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AliasMan02
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6:12p, 3/15/18
AG
I'm now betting that this supposed "stress test" turns out to be stressing PT tendons.
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OnlyForNow
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In reply to AliasMan02 • 6:32p, 3/15/18
AG
What does that mean for us non-civil engineers?
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Bondag
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 7:00p, 3/15/18
AG
OnlyForNow said:
What does that mean for us non-civil engineers?


There are metal tendons that run length of bridge or at set distance in a tube inside the concrete. After concrete is placed, or in this case after concrete is set You use a calibrated machine to pull the tendons a very specific distance in a controlled manner. You pull too hard and results are instantly catastrophic. You don't pull hard enough and you run into a problem down the road or someone in the testing lab realizes it and you engineer a fix before that happens.
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AliasMan02
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In reply to Bondag • 7:25p, 3/15/18
AG
Right. And if someone from the mayor's office received a report that the construction activity at the time of the collapse was some flavor of "stressing the tendons" it would be easy for a layman to rephrase that as there was a "stress test" occurring.

Not saying that this is what happened, just that it's a theory that fits a lot of the data points.
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Gateman
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7:40p, 3/15/18
AG
One of the vehicles that got crushed was a pick up truck from Structural Technologies.
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Bondag
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In reply to Gateman • 9:22p, 3/15/18
AG
Gateman said:
One of the vehicles that got crushed was a pick up truck from Structural Technologies.


A company that provides post tension services.
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bobbranco
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In reply to Bondag • 9:53p, 3/15/18
AG
AKA VSL
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trueaggie2782
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5:22a, 3/16/18
AG
Watch this guy's content quite often on YouTube. He has some interesting commentary. NSFW: Language

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AliasMan02
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In reply to trueaggie2782 • 7:52a, 3/16/18
AG
Pretty good layman video. He uses some incorrect language and is a little off on some of the technical aspects, but in general he lays out the possibilities pretty well. His conclusion is just a wild guess, though.
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