Why do all American air carriers suck ace?

10,203 Views | 94 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
hsjnlssmith89
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I "LOVE" how the ticket prices have stayed high (definitely have not gotten cheaper) and they have managed to:

1) remove all amenities from the flight unless you want to pay for each one
2) introduced self-check-in kiosks that don't allow you to talk to anyone easily when there is a problem
3) introduced self-tagging of your check-in luggage at the kiosks now
4) in some cases now having to transport and load my bags onto the conveyor

So, they are removing the personal aspects of the check-in process (probably more so in order that you can't talk to anyone as opposed to for cost savings), eliminating jobs but maintaining prices high!

Enjoyment of flying is all but over for me.
LostInLA07
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I hate talking to people so the self check in is perfect and much faster than waiting for some grumpy employee to punch buttons on their playschool colored keyboard. Lufthansa at Frankfurt has self-boarding kiosks as well, which work great until idiots don't follow the boarding priority. I wouldn't mind flight attendants being replaced with self-ordering screens and robots that immediately bring your order to you.
average_joker
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hsjnlssmith89 said:

I "LOVE" how the ticket prices have stayed high (definitely have not gotten cheaper) and they have managed to:

1) remove all amenities from the flight unless you want to pay for each one
2) introduced self-check-in kiosks that don't allow you to talk to anyone easily when there is a problem
3) introduced self-tagging of your check-in luggage at the kiosks now
4) in some cases now having to transport and load my bags onto the conveyor

So, they are removing the personal aspects of the check-in process (probably more so in order that you can't talk to anyone as opposed to for cost savings), eliminating jobs but maintaining prices high!

Enjoyment of flying is all but over for me.


Looks like the data supports the assertion that flying is cheaper. Inflation is a thing.
https://www.bts.gov/newsroom/2nd-quarter-2017-air-fare-data
ATM9000
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oldschool87 said:

You want to know why the airline industry as a whole sucks?

They are hourly employees! The pilots have zero motivation to be on time. Instead of a fixed price, or fixed price plus circumstances, or flat rate. They are paid hourly.

I have 400K miles on AA. I can tell you a good pilot, rookie, old guy, joe blow pilot you name it.

During the contract negotiation/sudo strike... The normal 7 minute+ taxi was taking 15 in DFW. 5 miles an hour the entire way to the ramp.

I get you don't want a bunch of fighter pilots racing with passengers on board, but seriously, I have had flights that pushed back early, had minimal flying time and we were late simply by the pilot taxing like a freaking turtle.

I promise some pilot will get on here and say something. I have a dozen pilot friends, I have heard it all.


First angry slow taxiing complaint I've heard. Great post.
rhoswen
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sudo.
SUDO.
BostonAg74
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Talon2DSO said:

Because over-regulation has cut into profit so bad they are forced to make it up through volume sales.
Wow, you packed a whole lot of stupid into one statement. You could not be further off the mark. First of all, the beginning of the decline in the level of service can be traced to the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Prior to that, airlines competed for customers by offering better meals, better service, comfort efficiency, etc. After that, the big airlines began to centralize and gobble up the smaller competitors, leaving many airports with only one choice of airline for a lot of destinations. Combine that with the cost of financing the mergers and takeovers, and the airlines were forced to strip down the product to the bare bones in order to make a profit. What regulation remains is largely for safety purposes. Is that the "over regulation" you are talking about? The Wal-Mart-ization of the airline industry in the U.S. (lower price, lower quality, local monopoly) is a product of the times. Americans will choose price over quality every damn time, and the airlines respond to that by offering less and less quality, so they can maintain the desired profit margin while they try to undercut the competition on price. Airlines suck for the same reason that everything else sucks these days: as much as Americans "demand" quality, they simply don't want to pay for it, so we get what we pay for.
MBUSA
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I get on a plane to sleep. Fly me from here to there. That's it.
GAC06
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BostonAg74 said:

Talon2DSO said:

Because over-regulation has cut into profit so bad they are forced to make it up through volume sales.
Wow, you packed a whole lot of stupid into one statement. You could not be further off the mark. First of all, the beginning of the decline in the level of service can be traced to the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Prior to that, airlines competed for customers by offering better meals, better service, comfort efficiency, etc. After that, the big airlines began to centralize and gobble up the smaller competitors, leaving many airports with only one choice of airline for a lot of destinations. Combine that with the cost of financing the mergers and takeovers, and the airlines were forced to strip down the product to the bare bones in order to make a profit. What regulation remains is largely for safety purposes. Is that the "over regulation" you are talking about? The Wal-Mart-ization of the airline industry in the U.S. (lower price, lower quality, local monopoly) is a product of the times. Americans will choose price over quality every damn time, and the airlines respond to that by offering less and less quality, so they can maintain the desired profit margin while they try to undercut the competition on price. Airlines suck for the same reason that everything else sucks these days: as much as Americans "demand" quality, they simply don't want to pay for it, so we get what we pay for.


I agree with much of the second half of your post, but regulation stifled competition, not encouraged it.
DadAG10
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BostonAg74 said:


Airlines suck for the same reason that everything else sucks these days: as much as Americans "demand" quality, they simply don't want to pay for it, so we get what we pay for.
BostonAg74
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Quote:

I agree with much of the second half of your post, but regulation stifled competition, not encouraged it.
I agree with that. I didn't mean to imply that some deregulation was not necessary in 1978, but the fact is that the unanticipated consequences of the Airline Deregulation Act were detrimental to the end product. Prior to deregulation, airlines thought the way to be successful was to win the competition of being the best in the eyes of the customer. After deregulation, the way to success was simply to be the cheapest. It's no surprise that the customer's experience was the first casualty after that global shift.
GAC06
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I can see that. Deregulation allowed airlines to compete on price, and the consumer did the rest.
LostInLA07
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Many foreign carriers are also subsidized by governments. Emirates is owned by Dubai.
ClickClack
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Nvm
ClickClack
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Doesn't really seem one to one to compare primarily long haul carriers like Singapore Air, Emirates, KLM to domestic carriers. Of course they're going to be more geared for comfort because they primarily operate 8-10 hour flights. And already they're using aircraft that are more spacious wide bodies like the A380 or 787 that are made for long flights.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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BostonAg74 said:

Quote:

I agree with much of the second half of your post, but regulation stifled competition, not encouraged it.
I agree with that. I didn't mean to imply that some deregulation was not necessary in 1978, but the fact is that the unanticipated consequences of the Airline Deregulation Act were detrimental to the end product. Prior to deregulation, airlines thought the way to be successful was to win the competition of being the best in the eyes of the customer. After deregulation, the way to success was simply to be the cheapest. It's no surprise that the customer's experience was the first casualty after that global shift.
how would you feel about getting rid of the jones act as it applies to air carriers?

I'm on board with letting foreign carriers operate US domestic routes. The legacy carriers would howl but it would certainly benefit the customer base.
MBUSA
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Emirates is the best.
Hey Nav
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Quote:

The pilots have zero motivation to be on time. Instead of a fixed price, or fixed price plus circumstances, or flat rate. They are paid hourly.
Finally! Someone talks truth.
MBUSA
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Being a pilot used to be a unique skill. These days it is almost all auto-pilot. The pay scale has dropped dramatically.
GAC06
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I love these threads
Hey Nav
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Quote:

Being a pilot used to be a unique skill. These days it is almost all auto-pilot. The pay scale has dropped dramatically.
Preach on...
coyote68
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Net Jets for me.
oldschool87
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GAC06 said:

oldschool87 said:

You want to know why the airline industry as a whole sucks?

They are hourly employees! The pilots have zero motivation to be on time. Instead of a fixed price, or fixed price plus circumstances, or flat rate. They are paid hourly.

I have 400K miles on AA. I can tell you a good pilot, rookie, old guy, joe blow pilot you name it.

During the contract negotiation/sudo strike... The normal 7 minute+ taxi was taking 15 in DFW. 5 miles an hour the entire way to the ramp.

I get you don't want a bunch of fighter pilots racing with passengers on board, but seriously, I have had flights that pushed back early, had minimal flying time and we were late simply by the pilot taxing like a freaking turtle.

I promise some pilot will get on here and say something. I have a dozen pilot friends, I have heard it all.


Lol at the guy in the back who thinks he knows what's happening
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we have a winnner!
GAC06
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Tell us more about how you can tell a good pilot from a bad pilot by staring at the seat back in front of you.
Out in Left Field
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Cat fight!
aTm2004
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LostInLA07 said:

To be fair, the domestic/intra-Europe product with European carriers also sucks. And European carriers also seem to routinely strike.

But I agree, domestic US airlines are awful.

Yep. Flew back from Switzerland yesterday and had an Air France flight into Paris to catch AA home, and the plane reminded me of the plane they had in Major League.
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GAC06
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Long haul flights have more amenities, are in bigger planes, have higher profit margins, and have higher turnaround times so they are less likely to be rushed or delayed. It's funny to me hearing all these world travelers talk about how much better foreign airlines are. Until they actually are world travelers and fly on foreign short haul flights.
Tecolote
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oldschool87 said:

GAC06 said:

oldschool87 said:

You want to know why the airline industry as a whole sucks?

They are hourly employees! The pilots have zero motivation to be on time. Instead of a fixed price, or fixed price plus circumstances, or flat rate. They are paid hourly.

I have 400K miles on AA. I can tell you a good pilot, rookie, old guy, joe blow pilot you name it.

During the contract negotiation/sudo strike... The normal 7 minute+ taxi was taking 15 in DFW. 5 miles an hour the entire way to the ramp.

I get you don't want a bunch of fighter pilots racing with passengers on board, but seriously, I have had flights that pushed back early, had minimal flying time and we were late simply by the pilot taxing like a freaking turtle.

I promise some pilot will get on here and say something. I have a dozen pilot friends, I have heard it all.


Lol at the guy in the back who thinks he knows what's happening
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we have a winnner!
So, you're saying you won't listen to any real airline pilots on here because you've already heard it all (assuming that's the bull crap that you're saying/spewing) from your dozen pilot "friends." Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And this from someone who has all of that immense amount of 400k miles - over what? 30 years!

Please, oh please, tell us more!
oldschool87
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Och26-58-87 said:

oldschool87 said:

GAC06 said:

oldschool87 said:

You want to know why the airline industry as a whole sucks?

They are hourly employees! The pilots have zero motivation to be on time. Instead of a fixed price, or fixed price plus circumstances, or flat rate. They are paid hourly.

I have 400K miles on AA. I can tell you a good pilot, rookie, old guy, joe blow pilot you name it.

During the contract negotiation/sudo strike... The normal 7 minute+ taxi was taking 15 in DFW. 5 miles an hour the entire way to the ramp.

I get you don't want a bunch of fighter pilots racing with passengers on board, but seriously, I have had flights that pushed back early, had minimal flying time and we were late simply by the pilot taxing like a freaking turtle.

I promise some pilot will get on here and say something. I have a dozen pilot friends, I have heard it all.


Lol at the guy in the back who thinks he knows what's happening
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we have a winnner!
So, you're saying you won't listen to any real airline pilots on here because you've already heard it all (assuming that's the bull crap that you're saying/spewing) from your dozen pilot "friends." Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And this from someone who has all of that immense amount of 400k miles - over what? 30 years!

Please, oh please, tell us more!


Lets see;

My father in law was Air Force then flew American for 31 years.

I own a bass boat with a check airman for Southwest out of Dallas. Been in the 737 Simulator twice.

Have flown with him to pick up new planes from Boeing and drop them off for customization.

The owner of Starlight Flight in Dallas lives 10 doors down from me. We fly down in his plane to the Aggie games. Really the bloody Mary's they serve when you get off the bus at the ramp.

I also fly with him over Christmas, he might do 60+ flights, he gets bored... obviously I am not on but a few.

Have been on 4 ski trips with roughly 15 Southwest Captains.

Wife's roomat from College Husband is an obnoxious Captain for Delta. We play golf about 4 time a year together.

O, the check airman and Starlight guy were roommates in College, he also owns his own plane. The 3 of us did Oskosh last year.

What exactly is your Question?

GAC06
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Here you go:

Quote:

Tell us more about how you can tell a good pilot from a bad pilot by staring at the seat back in front of you.


And I guess you must already know that SWA pilots aren't paid hourly.
Human
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Pilot smack....ah...don't go changing GB

I fly quite a bit too

I'm just thankful for a safe landing so I get home and be with my wife. Everything else is First World Problem stuff.

I do wish they hired hotter stewardesses with fun personalities though....

Carry on.
GAC06
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Yeah but how many pilots do you know?
Human
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GAC06 said:

Yeah but how many pilots do you know?


None sir.
c-jags
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Human said:


I do wish they hired hotter stewardesses with fun personalities though....

SWA has some personalities and occasionally a looker.

flying is a limited quantity that i endure for 1-6 hours at a time. i will pay lowest price because i don't care about amenities for 3 hours of my life. i just want to get there.

i spend money on nice running shoes, guns, fishing poles, and watches. those last.
coconutED
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Being consistently late is a pretty good way to get an appointment with the Chief Pilot.
FCBlitz
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I remember a Southwest Airline Stewardess flying from New Orleans to Houston
had me praying that one of her buttons on her tight white blouse would pop off and allow
her puppies to be shared with all. Man she had a great pair of tata's!
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