Yukon Cornelius said:

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Right now eths supply is deflationary but could be unlimited. They are just two really different things IMO.

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Mallers lays it out well here:

Why the SEC pivot?

Because banks get crushed being forced to buy negative real yielding bonds. Selling #Bitcoin and now “Crypto” ETFs help them to monetize insane debt levels and inflation.

Banks call the shots, not government.

In the end, there is #Bitcoin and everything else pic.twitter.com/lI3kWiOiDh

— Jack Mallers (@jackmallers) May 23, 2024

Don't think the etf is 100% to do with bank balance sheets. Eth isn't a security. Btc maxi coping today lol. Not sure why btc maxis can't be secure in their single crypto asset hodl strategy. The difference between a no coiner and a btc maxi is slim.

Could you please translate that into english? Thank you.

There are people who go out of their way to attack btc to irrational levels. Saying things like it's irrelevant, has no value, it's going to zero etc.

In a very similar way bitcoin maxis go out of there to irrationally attack other crypto currencies, particularly eth.

Many lies are said about btc. Similarly lies about eth are made. One is that eth is a security. But it's not.

And now that the eth etf has been approved bitcoin maxis are coping online and it's funny to me.

Not debating you, but I am a little confused by the ETH classification. ETH isn't trying to serve the same function as BTC, right? Isn't their ultimate goal to be the new internet?

They are IMO two different things. I don't see them in competition with each other at all.

But btc maxis will go out of their way to attack eth erroneously sometimes. I don't understand why but I do find it funny when they're proved wrong.

not an ETH fan personally but i am in favor of anything that A) allows americans to invest in whatever they want in tax sheltered vehicles and B) reduces SEC power and makes gensler looks stupid. as far as i can tell, this does both. the approval is also clearly part of a pretty significant shift in US politicians' overall stance on digital assets. which i expected at some point as investors in the space steadily become a more powerful/significant intransigent minority, but it is happening much faster than i expected.

what will be interesting is how the ETFs will be affected by the inability to stake. that is potentially a pretty large opportunity cost for anyone debating significant investment in the ETF vs spot ETH. guessing most of the public will pile in right away without really understanding this dynamic, but as adoption and awareness increase i'm not sure how its going to play out.

You seem to agree with Mallers point from that video, though I assume you didn't watch it and just came to sling ad hominem attacks.

Mallers TLDR: BTC is trying to be better money and ETH is a technology that is trying to solve different problems. Many mistakenly say that ETH is also trying to be better money but that's blatantly false.

BTC -> decentralized better money with no centralized control structure

ETH -> technology thats trying to do something else with a very centralized control structure

Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Right now eths supply is deflationary but could be unlimited. They are just two really different things IMO.

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Mallers lays it out well here:

Why the SEC pivot?

Because banks get crushed being forced to buy negative real yielding bonds. Selling #Bitcoin and now “Crypto” ETFs help them to monetize insane debt levels and inflation.

Banks call the shots, not government.

In the end, there is #Bitcoin and everything else pic.twitter.com/lI3kWiOiDh

— Jack Mallers (@jackmallers) May 23, 2024

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How are banks selling bitcoin and crypto etfs? Does this guy even know what he's talking about?

I'm not calling anyone here a btc maxi nor trying to sling mud either. But there's a decent amount of loud people who have done the mud slinging to be proven wrong yesterday.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Not debating you, but I am a little confused by the ETH classification. ETH isn't trying to serve the same function as BTC, right? Isn't their ultimate goal to be the new internet?

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Eth is a technology, no different than any other technology in regards to corporate structure, etc, and does not pass the Howey Test. But in order to appeal to the younglings and bankers the administration allowed ETH ETFs, and most likely any other ahitcoin etf in the process. No loss here fir me just disappointment that the charade continues. If you wanted a CBDC you'd want to keep Eth around as it is a centralized protocol that can be controlled. (FEATURE NOT BUG).

Bitcoin is something different entirely, and recognized as such.

Personally never doubted the eth etf wouldn't go through after btc etf went gangbusters for all parties, just disappointed that this country's leadership is so weak.

TxAG#2011 said:

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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Right now eths supply is deflationary but could be unlimited. They are just two really different things IMO.

---

Mallers lays it out well here:

Why the SEC pivot?

Because banks get crushed being forced to buy negative real yielding bonds. Selling #Bitcoin and now “Crypto” ETFs help them to monetize insane debt levels and inflation.

Banks call the shots, not government.

In the end, there is #Bitcoin and everything else pic.twitter.com/lI3kWiOiDh

— Jack Mallers (@jackmallers) May 23, 2024

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How are banks selling bitcoin and crypto etfs? Does this guy even know what he's talking about?

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How? They got approved to do it after about a decade of attempts to make a spot etf. Did you miss the entire last year of bitcoin news?

Really confused on where you're confused, but if you can be more specific I provide the resources.

Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Right now eths supply is deflationary but could be unlimited. They are just two really different things IMO.

---

Mallers lays it out well here:

Why the SEC pivot?

Because banks get crushed being forced to buy negative real yielding bonds. Selling #Bitcoin and now “Crypto” ETFs help them to monetize insane debt levels and inflation.

Banks call the shots, not government.

In the end, there is #Bitcoin and everything else pic.twitter.com/lI3kWiOiDh

— Jack Mallers (@jackmallers) May 23, 2024

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How are banks selling bitcoin and crypto etfs? Does this guy even know what he's talking about?

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How? They got approved to do it after about a decade of attempts to make a spot etf. Did you miss the entire last year of bitcoin news?

Really confused on where you're confused, but if you can be more specific I provide the resources.

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Yes I am confused. Which banks are selling bitcoin and how are they doing it?

I am having difficulty understanding what banks buying bonds have to do with unrelated entities like Coinbase, Fidelity, and Blackrock selling bitcoin and bitcoin etfs.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I'm not calling anyone here a btc maxi nor trying to sling mud either. But there's a decent amount of loud people who have done the mud slinging to be proven wrong yesterday.

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Is "BTC Maxi" a shorthand way to say "Bitcoin maximalist?"

TxAG#2011 said:

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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Right now eths supply is deflationary but could be unlimited. They are just two really different things IMO.

---

Mallers lays it out well here:

Why the SEC pivot?

Because banks get crushed being forced to buy negative real yielding bonds. Selling #Bitcoin and now “Crypto” ETFs help them to monetize insane debt levels and inflation.

Banks call the shots, not government.

In the end, there is #Bitcoin and everything else pic.twitter.com/lI3kWiOiDh

— Jack Mallers (@jackmallers) May 23, 2024

---

How are banks selling bitcoin and crypto etfs? Does this guy even know what he's talking about?

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How? They got approved to do it after about a decade of attempts to make a spot etf. Did you miss the entire last year of bitcoin news?

Really confused on where you're confused, but if you can be more specific I provide the resources.

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Yes I am confused. Which banks are selling bitcoin and how are they doing it?

I am having difficulty understanding what banks buying bonds have to do with unrelated entities like Coinbase, Fidelity, and Blackrock selling bitcoin and bitcoin etfs.

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Think this might contain most of the information you're needing:
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/cryptocurrency/spot-bitcoin-etfs/#:~:text=Investors%20don't%20take%20custody,your%20bitcoin%2C%E2%80%9D%20Zlatic%20says.


Mallers points about bonds is relevant as banks are losing their asses on bonds which historically have been relatively stable. The demand for banks to find new options for profitable instruments has led them to wholeheartedly embrace Bitcoin and crypto in many fashions whether solely a vehicle like ETF access to putting bitcoin on the Treasury books.

In your researching, I'd learn about Caitlin Long and Custodia Bank, it's a pretty interesting story as well.

I don't think the average person getting into crypto understands this.

Id be interested to hear Yukon explain how PoS Ethereum is not an investment contract(security).

" 2. For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (unde- fined by the Act) means a contract, transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party, it being immaterial whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal certificates or by nominal interests in the physical assets employed in the enterprise."

The Ethereum Foundation has a centralized corporate structure and governs the ethereum token. The foundation "premined" a significant portion of the supply for themselves and conducted an ICO. The Ethereum Foundation has a trademark on Ethereum as well. This feels like a common enterprise.

As a retail buyer, I can buy ETH the token off an exchange, and stake it in exchange for a ROI. Giving dollars to Coinbase for ETH and staking it feels exactly like going on Schwab and buying a dividend stock.

Pepper Brooks said:

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Id be interested to hear Yukon explain how PoS Ethereum is not an investment contract(security).

" 2. For purposes of the Securities Act, an investment contract (unde- fined by the Act) means a contract, transaction or scheme whereby a person invests his money in a common enterprise and is led to expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party, it being immaterial whether the shares in the enterprise are evidenced by formal certificates or by nominal interests in the physical assets employed in the enterprise."

The Ethereum Foundation has a centralized corporate structure and governs the ethereum token. The foundation "premined" a significant portion of the supply for themselves and conducted an ICO. The Ethereum Foundation has a trademark on Ethereum as well. This feels like a common enterprise.

There's ethereum and there's eth. Eth is a utility token used to pay miners for processing transactions.

As a retail buyer, I can buy ETH the token off an exchange, and stake it in exchange for a ROI. Giving dollars to Coinbase for ETH and staking it feels exactly like going on Schwab and buying a dividend stock.

And how does this differ from bitcoin? Or gold from kitco? Just because you can buy something doesn't mean it's a security. And just because that thing has a use that people pay for generating a yield doesn't make it a security either.

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Regarding the differences in governance between ETH and BTC…

" The Ethereum network isn't sufficiently decentralized, and it is prone to grow more centralized as time goes on due to its Proof-of-Stake consensus mechanism funneling issuance power into fewer and fewer hands as time goes by. Those with more tokens have more influence, leading to a concentration of power with the ether-wealthy and raising the barrier to entry for people who want to join the network and begin issuing ETH. This is fundamentally different from bitcoin's Proof-of-Work consensus mechanism, wherein computing power determines your slice of the protocol's issuance schedule, meaning far less centralization risk of governance power."

I stole this from Nik Bhatia.

Well those two points. How much effort to earn yield and how decentralized something is aren't qualifiers for a security.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Well those two points. How much effort to earn yield and how decentralized something is aren't qualifiers for a security.

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1) An investment of money.
2) In a common enterprise.
3) With the reasonable expectation of profits.
4) Due to the managerial efforts of others.

Algorithmic Epiphany said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Well those two points. How much effort to earn yield and how decentralized something is aren't qualifiers for a security.

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1) An investment of money. Like buying Bitcoin with dollars
2) In a common enterprise. Bitcoin network
3) With the reasonable expectation of profits. Bitcoin halving cycles
4) Due to the managerial efforts of others.
Bitcoin miners

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You can say the same for a piece of property with a hunting lease or whatever. It's been ruled a commodity and rightfully so. This debate is irrelevant.

Post that ruling please. ETF approval bolsters the argument but does not make it official.

https://www.theblock.co/post/296751/secs-approval-of-ethereum-etfs-still-leaves-some-questions-on-whether-eth-is-a-security-lawyers-say

I'll give you the sec hasn't come out and said eth is a commodity. However most people acknowledge this is the sec acknowledging it a commodity.

Maybe the unnamed lawyer will be right or maybe it's click bait article.

Tell me you just read the headline without telling me you just read the headline.

The majority of the article is saying this move confirms eth a commodity except for one comment by a lawyer in an email to this publisher. Total clickbait. But whatever. It doesn't matter what we think. The players are moving forward as eth is a commodity.

You have one attorney quoted as saying approval means it's a commodity and 2, including Coinbase in house legal counsel talking out of both sides of his mouth, as being quoted saying it's still not clear. Read better.

I'm not arguing with you some lawyer thinks x y or z. But it has little bearing. For everyone one you find with a quote in an article I could find another lawyer quoted with the opposite opinion. And likely more. But it's all meaningless. What's happening is the big players, the ones who make the rules, are moving forward with eth being a commodity. Not sure why that ruffles so many feathers. Does it matter gold isn't a security either? No. Why should it matter to the BTC maxi what eth is or isn't?

If In the future it gets ruled a security etc come dunk on me. I'll eat my crow.

The Ethereum etf got approved. Who gives a sheet what it is.

People still midcurving the easiest trade in all markets.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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I'm not arguing with you some lawyer thinks x y or z. But it has little bearing. For everyone one you find with a quote in an article I could find another lawyer quoted with the opposite opinion. And likely more. But it's all meaningless. What's happening is the big players, the ones who make the rules, are moving forward with eth being a commodity. Not sure why that ruffles so many feathers. Does it matter gold isn't a security either? No. Why should it matter to the BTC maxi what eth is or isn't?

If In the future it gets ruled a security etc come dunk on me. I'll eat my crow.

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If eth is a commodity, everything is a commodity, or in other words, no such thing as a commodity. The term commodity as it stands cannot define ethereum without make the term irrelevant.

Words matter. Otherwise nothing matters.

I'm not opposed to anarchy, however. ETH as a commodity accelerates the obliteration of traffic. Not a terrible thing. Just means more people wake up to Nihilism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/commodity

it's used for gas to make transactions on the ethereum network. It meets the definition. Per Webster dictionary. 2. Being useful.

c'mon do something...