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Brenham has already signed contract with LSN for Lamar Consol game

5,768 Views | 62 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Ft Worth Ag
AgDotCom
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Amazing how this network just swaggers into the picture and cuts deals on paper without conference approval. Unless, of course, Beebe is (or was) complicit in all this.

If there is a contingency in the contract for "conference and NCAA approval", I would feel a *little* better about this, and maybe there is. If not, wow.

quote:
West said this morning that he does not know whether the Longhorn Network will follow through with its plans to air the game, but he has already signed a contract allowing the network to broadcast the contest. He said ESPN told him on Wednesday that it intended to officially announce the game this weekend at the Texas High School Coaches Association convention in Fort Worth.


http://www.brenhambanner.com/articles/2011/07/22/sports/sports01.txt

And one other thing for those of you who think our protestations erode relationships with high school coaches....if you think for a minute that HS coaches would agree to any of their opponents having a similar competitive advantage, think again. They would be beating a path to UIL headquarters. I'm certain they understand our position, in fact showing our backbone has probably improved our image, not the opposite.
John Maplethorpe
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AG
Hmm,
Could this have anything to do with a certain high profile recruit from brenham who was leaning the ags way and unexpectedly committed to the longhorns a couple months ago?
steve_6
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NCAA should legislate against this NOW.
Maroon Dawn
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AG
Here is the easy solution to all of this:

The NCAA passes legislation saying its OK for a member to have its own network, but 1) it must either a) own the network outright, or b) own a majority stake in it and 2) Media partners who wish to business with NCAA members are subject to all the same rules as a booster or representative of athletic interest is

That immediately solves the problem of "but WE aren't doing anything illegal, ESPN IS and we just happen to benefit from it."



[This message has been edited by Maroon Dawn (edited 7/24/2011 12:36p).]
Aggie GIGolo
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AG
Wouldn't shock me if the NCAA allows. Look what's happening with Ohio State - they are already laying the ground work for a wrist slap. They are in bed with these schools and it sickens me.

aggiehawg
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AG
The NCAA is apparently corrupt to the core, and a big part of it is the racism angle. These poor black kids were just trying to get by and take care of their families, blah, blah, no real harm done, just vacate a couple of victories, suspend some scholarships, (which ironically increases the likelihood of payments under the table), and all is good.

ESPN and tu pushed the envelope by setting something up that is a massive on-going plan to violate the NCAA rules on recruiting. It is at the institutional level the moment they signed that contract.

Is the NCAA going to act pre-emptively? Or wait until Gray signs a letter of intent, and then rule him ineligible?

Aggie by birth, Hawg by marriage! And a Grand 'Ol Dame.
Belton Ag
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AG
I'm sure this has been exhausted but I just can't help but wonder if ESPN gets elevated to "Booster" Status; and when?. This partnership goes well beyond a mere contract to broadcast some games. Instead it is the national promotion of the entire athletic department. How can ESPN broadcast any high school game anywhere, let alone Texas high school games, where athletes have been offered scholarships by tu. Can T Boone Pickens have contact with potential OSU recruits? Can the Kruse family have contact with potential Aggie Baseball recruits? This whole thing is bordering on madness.
dond
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LSN is bad.
viva torrente
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tu thinks they are going to be the only school to get away with this due to their uil connections.

The problem is, is if the ncaa allows the cows to do it, everybody gets to do it.

And there is nothing tu can do about it. If tu puts pressure on the uil to not let schools come in and bid on games, then it closes the loophole they are trying to take advantage of.
Jefe
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I think the plan is to go to individual school districts and have them sign contracts to move the game to a thurday or saturday. If the NCAA allows this, it will be because anyone can make an agreement with the school district to show games on their network/online.
viva torrente
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I agree with you.

But other horns have said the uil will keep them from working with other schools. Which is kind of dumb because they want to work with schools outside of Texas.

I do not think he realized that would also close the loophole tu is trying to take advantage of.

tu will at best get a year or two head start, airing HS games (if they can). Other schools will figure out how to get HS games on in short order.

tu will take the early adopter postion and try to take advantage of it best they can. But it will not be the huge advantage they think.

Though, I am thinking if they force it through now (and the conference game) we will likely lose the conference next spring or summer (through the loss of one or more members).

They may want that.

[This message has been edited by viva torrente (edited 7/24/2011 4:20p).]
Maroon Dawn
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AG
Its not quite that simple.

The NCAA rules are clear on what schools and boosters can do in regards to putting HS sports and athletes on television: nothing.

What tu is trying to do is use ESPN as a smokescreen. They provide content to an ESPN network that is focused solely on their school, but technically they don't own the LHN.

The hope is that this technicality would allow ESPN to get around the normal restrictions on HS sports for tu. tu claims that THEY aren't the ones violating the rules (and technically its true) but they DO get the recruiting benefit they were never intended to have of HS sports being shown on "their" network.

So the issue for the NCAA is this: Is a media entity that has partnered with a NCAA member school to distribute their content (even if the member school does not own the distribution vehicle) qualify as a Representative of Athletic Interest (or booster) under NCAA rules?

I think the most important aspect here is that if not for this new form of arrangement to screen them from the rules, then the recruiting benefit tu would receive from HS sports being shown a channel dedicated exclusively to them would be unquestionably illegal.

Jefe
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Texas will not use the UIL to prevent games from being shown by other schools. that would be the fastet way to get it shut down completely. They will say that everyone has an equal chance and that is why it should be allowed.
viva torrente
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Which is why the conference games on the cowtv are a bigger advantage in the long run.

Schools will find creative ways to basically do what tu is trying to do with HS games even without a channel.

However, it is not easy to counter taking conference games from the conference tv package to put on a single schools network.
(Removed:11023A)
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AG
How about we just exit this shI**y conference!
Jefe
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Is ESPN not allowed to put the Big 12 game wherever they want? It's not like the other school isn't going to get paid for their appearance. Isn't ABC/ESPN guaranteed the rights to one Big 12 game per team per year? For the fans, it sucks but I don't see how the Big 12 can prevent ESPN from doing this.

[This message has been edited by Jefe (edited 7/24/2011 4:41p).]
viva torrente
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quote:
Is ESPN not allowed to put the Big 12 game wherever they want? It's not like the other school isn't going to get paid for their appearance. Isn't ABC/ESPN guaranteed the rights to one Big 12 game per team per year? For the fans, it sucks but I don't see how the Big 12 can prevent ESPN from doing this.


They can but it will likely lead to the break up of the conference.

If there wasn't the real threat of it doing so, then there is no way beebe would have "temporarily" suspended the games.
AGAZ03
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AG
Somebody already hit the nail on the head.

Brenham recruits already committed to Texas because this was promised to them months ago.

If they ever admitted to it, it would bring the whole thing down including Texas and give ESPN a huge black eye.


Also, there are a lot of people comparing Texas to ND.

Let this be clear:

1. ND does not have their own network. They just have their football games televised by the same channel.

If Texas wanted that no one would care. It's a reasonable request given their size of fan base.

2. ND never wanted to broadcast HS games.

3. NBC does not go out of its way to over-hype ND every chance it gets.
Jefe
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IMO, and I stress IMO, he said that to pacify all of the people who were concerned and complaining about the legality of it and threatening to leave. He's not going to say, "Texas can do whatever they want" because that would force the breakup of the Big 12 for sure. He is hiding behind the "We'll see what the NCAA has to say about it" excuse because he knows he does not have the authority to tell ESPN what they can/can't air. He had to remain neutral. In the end, the NCAA is the only one who can rule against the airing of HS/Big 12 games.
mid90
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AG
effffffffffff

Lamar consolidated is my alma mater
Maroon Dawn
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AG
Not true, the Big 12 is a private club that can make its own rules that limit schools further than the NCAA does. We already do this by having higher qualifications for recruits than the NCAA minimum.

If the B12 says "no" then that doesn't mean tu COULDN'T have it, they would just have to leave the Big 12 and join a conference that would...though I just don't believe any AQ conference would let them bring their cheating machine along with them.

Jefe
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How can they make a rule that governs ESPN? What authority does the Big 12 have over ESPN?
viva torrente
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The NCAA has nothing to say on whether B12 games air on cowtv. That is between the b12, espn, tu, and the member schools.

The NCAA can only give cover on the HS games.

That still might not keep anyone in the conference.

When both A&M and ou are saying they do not want it to happen, it is likely a line in the sand (and who knows which schools have the same feelings privately).

I think one of three things will happen.

tu-espn will go ahead and air the games (both HS and B12) and next year the b12 will fall apart.

They do not air the games and that really hampers the channel's success (if espn didn't need the HS and conference games for the channel they would not have pursued them).

They wait a couple of years to force the games onto the b12 and see if they can do it and keep the conference together.

espn can just go over the b12's wishes, but by doing so they are saying the conference is dirt and tu is what is important. It would give every school the political cover to leave the conference.

That could blow up in espn's face as it would bring about super conferences and change the landscape of college football.

They might be fine but it would be much more uncertain than now.

[This message has been edited by viva torrente (edited 7/24/2011 5:35p).]
John David Stutts
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quote:
Brenham recruits already committed to Texas because this was promised to them months ago.



If this conspiracy theory is true, couldn't the kids commit to another school on signing day, after the game is televised, if that was what they truly wanted to do
Maroon Dawn
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AG
But thats exactly the issue.

Saying NCAA has no power over the media entities its schools partner with is saying "here is the way you can legally cheat: just get a network to do it for you"

So, if thats true, why even have booster rules at all? The NCAA has no authority over Will Lyles and yet they seem pretty concerned about what he was doing "on behalf" of the schools he partnered with.

aggiehawg
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AG
Actually, I like the idea of the NCAA declaring any tu recruit, after signing their letter of intent, who appeared in a high school game on cowtv, ineligible for receiving improper benefits. Give ESPN and tu enough rope, then hang 'em by it.

You want to air HS games and show their talents solely because you believe there is an audience for that, and that alone, ESPN? Fine, but they can't play at tu. Actually, ESPN would be fine with this. They have airtime to fill, and Texas high school football is about as good as it gets. The whorns? Not so much.

Would really get to see how much influence they would have over which teams and games were aired, wouldn't it?

Aggie by birth, Hawg by marriage! And a Grand 'Ol Dame.
viva torrente
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Frankly, the ncaa is going to create something much worse than lyles if they allow it.

You will have schools bidding on games from school districts for the sole purpose of recruiting.

It will be a big mess.
Jefe
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quote:
So, if thats true, why even have booster rules at all? The NCAA has no authority over Will Lyles and yet they seem pretty concerned about what he was doing "on behalf" of the schools he partnered with.


What Lyles was doing was against the rules. So far, there are no rules against the LHN airing HS or Big 12 games. You are right, the NCAA doesn't have authority over Lyles but the schools dealing with him are facing punishment because it's against the rules.
viva torrente
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That sort of distinction is kind of like saying it is only murder if you use a gun.

Whether the ncaa states it is against the rules or not, the same thing is being done. A third party is being used to facilitate a recruiting advantage for a particular school.

It is going to open up a pandora's box that makes the lyles stuff look as complicated as the ol' $100 handshake between a booster and recruit.

[This message has been edited by viva torrente (edited 7/24/2011 6:24p).]
Maroon Dawn
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AG
You say there is no rule that covers ESPN, but then please explain how ESPN partnering with tu to create an network exclusively for the purpose of promoting the tu athletic department does not qualify under the booster rule:

13.02.14 Representative of Athletics Interests. A "representative of the institution's athletics interests"
is an individual, independent agency, corporate entity or other organization
who is known (or who should have been known) by a member of the institution's executive or athletics administration to: (Revised: 2/16/00)
(a) Have participated in or to be a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution's intercollegiate
athletics program;

(b) Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that
institution;

(c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective
student-athletes;

(d) Be assisting or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their families; or
(e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution's athletics program.


Its pretty much impossible to argue that by providing tu with a platform to promote tu exclusively, that ESPN does not meet the definition of a booster under NCAA rules.

As such, its also hard to argue that the NCAA can't tell them that they may NOT provide tu with recruiting advantages that the NCAA expressly forbids its members to have.




[This message has been edited by Maroon Dawn (edited 7/24/2011 6:30p).]
bigdm
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AG
Looking back at history---tu has aiways done what they wanted to do. this will follow suit.
Jefe
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quote:
(a) Have participated in or to be a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution's intercollegiate
athletics program;

The question I have about this rule is, is ESPN considered media does this rule apply to media?
quote:
b) Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that
institution;

They have not "given" Texas any money. They have bought Texas' rights to air their games.
quote:
(c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective
student-athletes;

They haven't assisted in the recruitment of a prospective stdent athlete
quote:
(d) Be assisting or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their families;

No benefits have been given
quote:
(e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution's athletics program.
You could argue that they are merely promoting their network.

I know it is all semantics but this is what lawyers are going to be arguing over if/when this goes to court.

Let's say the NCAA rules that ESPN is a booster, does anyone have the rules for boosters?
BQ#1
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AG
From where I sit, Beebe and tu saw a riot brewing that was gaining a lot of heat and momentum very quickly. So they made a move to slow everything down so the movement of unrest could dissipate without exploding. Beebe has everything to lose, and tu might lose some face as it would be hard for them to spin it where they weren't the bad guy. So Beebe and the sips backed down, for now. The operative phrase is "for now." I believe the sips still fully expect to get everything they tried for, but now they will have to go more slowly, use more smoke, apply more spin, etc. That's exactly what I expect to happen. And I suspect that's what our AD, Pres, and BOR expect to happen. And that's why I don't think their internal discussions about options are just rattling sabers. They are seriously weighing the options A&M has, because tu has not been and will not ever be anything but an athletic program bully, exerting money and politics to gain advantage over other Big 12 member institutions at every turn. How many decades do we need to observe their method of operation and not recognize that it's just their culture to do business this way with other conference members and the conference office? I've seen it for four decades now. I imagine some of you others have seen it even longer.

I guess this was a long rant. And I don't have any inside information. But it seems clear to me what has been going on in recent days. The BIG, BIG question is if our leadership sees risks in an SEC move of the same relative magnitude as staying where we are. I personally am getting close to the point where I would welcome some degree of unknown with the SEC to get away for the known situation we are living with now.
Sparkie
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AG
"How can they make a rule that governs ESPN? What authority does the Big 12 have over ESPN?"

The Big 12-2 can pass bylaws that govern what tu can do with their own network. It takes 75% of the active directors to make this happen.

OU is already starting to push for this to happen.
aggiehawg
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AG
So who in the conference can tu bribe, or bully? Uh, Baylor and tech. Game over. They'll fold like a cheap lawn chair. Because the threat will be that tu leaves and craters the whole conference leaving them out in the cold, if the Big Xii votes to s*** in the whorns mess kit.

Aggie by birth, Hawg by marriage! And a Grand 'Ol Dame.
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