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The Big 12 Has Few Good Coaches

3,318 Views | 55 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by AlexNguyen
AlexNguyen
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Accurate statement?

Think about guys like Gundy or Pinkel or even Mangino. Would they have lasted this long in the SEC or another conference?
W
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AG
the key indicator that those 3 guys are bad coaches ---> winless against both OU and Texas

That's a combined 0-25 or so

letters at random
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Mangino is terrible. AP coach of the year...what? last year?

Gundy has also done a good job at OSU.

[This message has been edited by letters at random (edited 12/3/2009 12:12p).]
raven10
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its been two seasons (including this one)
NyAggie
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AG
yep. If you can't ever beat the big boys, you are not a good coach.

it's funny because it feels like not too long ago the big12 seemed to have a bunch of good coaches.

when fran signed on with A&M it seemed like the big12 was stacked with what were thought to be good coaches at the time:

Fran
Mack
Stoops
Leach
Barnett
Solich
miles



[This message has been edited by NyAggie (edited 12/3/2009 12:16p).]
W
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AG
considering that Dan Hawkins and Ron Prince figured out how to beat OU or Texas...it can be done. Gundy should not be 0-10 vs. those 2 schools.
AlexNguyen
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Big 12 vs. SEC (in no particular order)
========================
Stoops OU Meyer Florida
Brown Texas Saban Bama
Leach Tech Spurrier Carolina
Gundy OSU Richt GA
Sherman A&M Nutt Ole Miss
Briles Baylor Johnson Vanderbilt
Mangino KS Kiffen UT
Pinkel MO Miles LSU
Pelini NEB Chizik Auburn
Snyder KSU Mullen MS State
Rhodes ISU Petrino Arkansas
Hawkins CU Brooks KY


I think the SEC has the edge in the top half of their coaches with Meyer, Saban, Richt, Spurrier, Miles, and Petrino.

Mutual_Friend
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Bill Snyder is one of the top 10, maybe top 5 coaches in college football history.

KSU's record under Snyder from 1989-2005: 136-68-1

KSU's record from 1935-1988 under 13 different coahces: 136-394-17

[This message has been edited by Mutual_Friend (edited 12/3/2009 2:26p).]
AlexNguyen
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No doubt Snyder has been a good coach for KState. He's a good program builder. He was not good at sustaining high levels of success in Manhattan though. Arguably both Brown and Stoops are better coaches because they built their programs and have also continued to keep their schools at or near the top of the Big 12.

BoyNamedSue
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Not many people are going to sustain KSU beyond what Snyder did - and pulling that awful program from the ashes is a monumental accomplishment in itself!
rockylarues
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How would yall rank the current Big 12 coaches?
Mr. Bergstrom
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AG
Thank you mutual_friend for finally mentioning Snyder. It is a sad statement that it took that long. Word just absolutely cannot express the phenomenal job Snyder did.
AlexNguyen
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Right now, I would rank them in this order. If Brown wins another NC this year, he would take over as #1. I value consistency more, so Mangino is probably lower in my list than most would place him, even considering his 1 great season.

Stoops
Brown
Leach
Snyder
Pinkel
Gundy
Mangino
Pelini
Sherman
Briles
Rhodes
Hawkins
Mr. Bergstrom
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AG
It is not even fair to say he raised KSU from the ashes. That would imply that at one point it had been on fire. Prior to Snyder, KSU was the worst program in the nation and it wasn't even close.
PFlat
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AG
quote:
Stoops
Brown
Leach
Snyder
Pinkel
Gundy
Mangino
Pelini
Sherman
Briles
Rhodes
Hawkins

anyone who puts sherm below pinkel & gundy doesnt know sh*t about coaching. have you WATCHED a pinkel game? gwad he makes some horrible, horrible game decisions. he's a frikkin' moron. chasing points by going for 2 all the time, fake FG's on 4th & 16...the guy is certifiable. when have you ever watched a sherm-coached game and thought "WTF IS HE *DOING*!!??". I *NEVER* HAVE. not once, no joke. we have been out-talented & we have crumbled under pressure, but our gameday COACHING DECISIONS & gameplans have been sound. the same cannot be said for pinkel. pinkel is an idiot.

sherm is in the upper *half* of coaches in the league at WORST. pinkel is in the bottom 2.

[This message has been edited by ag-i-doc (edited 12/3/2009 3:13p).]
rockylarues
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I would give Brown the #1 spot over Stoops, but not by much. Stoops has more Big 12 championships, but I think Brown will catch him if they both stick around for a while. That, and the fact that Brown can win his bowl games, and never has a down year really. My Rankings would be:

Brown (reasons mentioned above)
Stoops
Leach (consistency, does more with less)
Gundy
Snyder (was better than he is now)
Pinkel
Pelini (bringing back the Defense)
Mangino (going down)
Sherman (still too soon to tell, could move up a lot)
Briles (needs a better program to showcase his skills)
Rhodes
Hawkins


Not a lot of differences from yours
AlexNguyen
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Well, yeah, I started the thread and I mentioned Pinkel as one of the mediocre coaches in the league, so I have observed a lot of his gameday 'miscues'.

Guess what? He's still has a better record than Sherman in the Big 12 to this point. Maybe Sherman will prove himself over time, but you're being very biased. Sherman has done nothing to merit being ranked above Pinkel at this point.

Spaceball 1
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AG
10-14. That's his overall record. I'd say Alex put him right where he belongs, currently.

[This message has been edited by AggieBob03 (edited 12/3/2009 3:16p).]
MooreTrucker
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AG
quote:
but our gameday COACHING DECISIONS & gameplans have been sound.


I think the second half of the Arkansas game qualifies as not-so-good gameday coaching decisions. Abandoning the run was not real smart.
Mizzou-rah!
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quote:
Would they have lasted this long in the SEC or another conference


If Pinkel took over a historically poor program in the sec, made them a consistent winner, was a half away from the mnc, ranked number 1 yes he'd last this long.

Sure Pinkel has had his fair share of wtf moments but from where this program was before him he's done excellent. People used to be happy with 6 wins now we ***** about 8. He's taken us to a (sad) school record of 5 straight bowl games and 6 of the last 7. (can yall say that? Insert *****ing about the north who took 2 of 3 from yall). Plus his recruiting has gotten better each year with this year probably his best ever once its finished. He also does it with great kids who all graduate.

You have to know where we've been to understand how great Pinkel has done for us. We're creeping into that national spotlight as our beast mode nike uniform deal showed too.

Blast away with your 10 year ago greatness arrogance now.

[This message has been edited by Mizzou-rah! (edited 12/3/2009 3:39p).]
PFlat
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AG
quote:
Guess what? He's still has a better record than Sherman in the Big 12 to this point

i dispute this. in pinkel's 1st 2 yrs he was 3-5 & 2-6. in sherm's 1st 2 seasons he's been 2-6 & 3-5...um, thats pretty much the same:

2001 Missouri 4-7 overall, 3-5 conference
2002 Missouri 5-7 overall, 2-6 conference

2008 Texas A&M 4–8 overall, 2–6 conference
2009 Texas A&M 6–6 overall, 3–5 conference

plus we play in the south with tu & ou every season, not the wussy-north where we get to beat up on isu every year.
PFlat
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AG
quote:
Insert *****ing about the north who took 2 of 3 from yall

ok i'll make sure & also not bring up that the worst team in the south only has 2 road victories in the history of the big 12...both vs north teams, one was this yr vs mu.

[This message has been edited by ag-i-doc (edited 12/3/2009 3:42p).]
AlexNguyen
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No need to be so defensive, Mizzou Rah. I ranked Pinkel the 5th best coach in the league. That's respectable enough. I think it's a defendable position to say that Stoops, Brown, Leach, Snyder are all better coaches than him in the Big 12. Out of the SEC, I would rank him behind Meyer, Saban, Richt, Spurrier, Miles, Petrino, and Nutt.

AlexNguyen
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quote:

i dispute this. in pinkel's 1st 2 yrs he was 3-5 & 2-6. in sherm's 1st 2 seasons he's been 2-6 & 3-5...um, thats pretty much the same:



The comparison is over each coach's entire tenure in the Big 12, otherwise I'd be forced to conclude Paul Rhodes is a better coach than Mike Sherman given his greater w/l record in his first season at Iowa State.

For all Pinkel's flaws, he has accomplished much more than Sherman has by any objective measure.
PFlat
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AG
this argument:
quote:
otherwise I'd be forced to conclude Paul Rhodes is a better coach than Mike Sherman given his greater w/l record in his first season at Iowa State.

i could maybe buy. except of course for the rhodes/sherm head-to-head, which sherm won.

this one:

quote:
For all Pinkel's flaws, he has accomplished much more than Sherman has by any objective measure.

is fail


[This message has been edited by ag-i-doc (edited 12/3/2009 3:55p).]
AlexNguyen
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quote:

For all Pinkel's flaws, he has accomplished much more than Sherman has by any objective measure.


is fail



Only because you need an eye exam yourself, Doc. Pinkel has several North crowns. You don't win your own division even if it is the weaker one without having SOME ability, and even a North championship is better than nothing.

Pinkel was a top coach in the MAC when he coached at Toledo. Unfortunately for him, he probably didn't wait for the right job and now he's middle of the pack for the Big 12.
BBDP
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AG
Brown wins bowl games in part because he is always playing a lower "seed" since he did not win the conference.

Stoops plays in a BCS bowl every year....those are a little harder to win than a 2nd tier bowl.

I would put Conference championships over bowl wins by a lot.
Bowl games are after 25+ days rest, anything can happen.






[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 12/3/2009 4:47p).]
atfarmer
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quote:
Gundy has also done a good job at OSU.


No he hasn't. He's accumulated some wins but he's lost every important game he's ever played (other than this year's victory over a 7-5 Georgia squad. La-dee-da)

Pinkel = idiot. With regards to the Xs and Os, he might be the worst coach in the big 12.
Mangino is abusive, but isn't too bad. One has to remember the dearth of talent he has at KU. Or maybe he just got really lucky with Reesing, Meyer, and Briscoe and he'll go back to complete suckage next year.
atfarmer
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quote:
Guess what? He's still has a better record than Sherman in the Big 12 to this point. Maybe Sherman will prove himself over time, but you're being very biased. Sherman has done nothing to merit being ranked above Pinkel at this point.


quote:
For all Pinkel's flaws, he has accomplished much more than Sherman has by any objective measure.


Sherman went ~60-30 at Green Bay, set a few offensive records on the way, and won several play off games there. That's a hell of a lot more than Pinkel has ever done.

If you want to talk about achievements solely in the big 12, then you're right. Pinkel has done more in 10 years at MU than Sherman has in 2 years of rebuilding at A&M. But to say that Pinkel has accomplished more as a coach than Sherman has is so stupid it's laughable.
Mutual_Friend
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Sherm has managed to surpass Pinkel in one key category: 40+ point losses. That tally:

Sherm- 3 (in 24 games)
Pinkel- 2 (in 112 games)

And Mizzou's cupboard was probably just as bear as A&M's was whem Pinkel took over. They had gone 7-15 in the prior two years. But Pinkel can't say he coached Brett Favre.

[This message has been edited by Mutual_Friend (edited 12/3/2009 6:12p).]
PFlat
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AG
lets see...have game commentators ever LAUGHED AT the coaching decision that sherm has made? repeatedly acted confused & dumbfounded by his in-game calls? hmm.

yeah lets count the "WTF!!??" moments between the 2 coaches JUST THIS SEASON. pinkel may have won a moderate amount of games in the super-weak north, but as far as coaching prowess is concerned he's a grade-A moron.
PFlat
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AG
sherm hasnt lost to gaylor at home...
JDay
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Before he was carried by chase daniel, pinkel was on the chopping block at mu. it would have been a mistake, just like ku is making now, but I bet even mizzou-rah was on the fire Pinkel bandwagon.
BTW, A&M lost 2 games on the road (starting 18 freshmen) to north teams. mu lost to the last place south team at home minus their best player.
That said, I would definitely take Sherman, although he has major advantages coaching at A&M as opposed to Missouri.
ashley
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This is bull. Isn't it funny how the coaches rated the best are at the places that get the best players. If Briles had the tu or Florida job how would he be rated.
Texdoc
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If Pinkel was carried by Chase, then Sherman is being carried by JJ now.

HOOK 'EM,
Texdoc


"Sooner or later it all gets real" - Neil Young
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