I am helping plan a honeymoon for a couple we know, and they would love to go to Germany. They are probably going to spend 7-9 days total. Any recommendations on where to go(start/end), things to do, and other things. I think we have convinced them that train will be the best and most reliable option that time of year, but not opposed to them driving. Did not know how driveable the terrain is during winter, particularly the closer you get to the alps. They love historical sights and are not caught up on nightlife.
I have already priced several flights to/from most major airports in germany and wanted some other thoughts on the actual itinerary from those who have been, particularly in that time. Thanks for the help as we are trying to make this special for them.

I just returned from a study abroad in Germany and stayed in Bonn (hour south of Cologne) most of the time, but was able to travel around on weekends.

We took a train from Cologne (one of the largest cathedrals in Europe) to Heidelberg, stayed in Heidelberg for a night and then onto Munich. It turned out to be one of my favorite side trips the whole summer. Heidelberg is very quaint with a castle overlooking the city. a great day trip.

Also check out Neuschwanstein Castle. its the castle that disney modeled their castle off of. They do tours out of Munich. never got to go there but really wanted to.



Nymphenberg palace is really cool too. Olympic park, great shopping, haufbrau haus is a great atmosphere, good transportation system. loved munich.

I'm not sure I would go with renting a car. All of the major cities have incredible train systems that could take you anywhere you needed to. I was there for a month and a half and never rode in a car.

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Also check out Neuschwanstein Castle.

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Definite must do if in Southern Germany.

I went in the summer, but could only imagine how neat it would be there in the winter


Cologne and Munich ar two of my favorite cities in Germany, so many side trips to take out of the two in my opinion.

[This message has been edited by Brad06ag (edited 9/17/2009 5:46a).]

Other than the emoteicon I wont post what I think about the above.

Also is Connie still doing study abroad at AIB or did Dr. Shandley do it this year? I went in '05 myself. And now have been living here for three years.

Anyhow .. honeymoon to Germany in Winter .. I wouldnt advise it .. its miserable here in winter, there is about 8 hours of grey light per day, the sun comes "up" if you would call it that at like 8am and will be down by 5pm.

But yeah if they are dead set on it, driving is fine, the Germans have seen a winter or two, they have the appropriate resources to keep major roads clear.

Dresden is really nice, but would be cold in winter, hell .. everywhere except here in the Stuttgart/Freiburg corner will be miserable. The north will have the winter rains off the north sea, the south over 700m will have snow up to your butt. It was already 32F (0C) at 700m just the other day, at altitude we should start seeing snow in the next month.

If you can be a bit more specific on why they want to come and what they want to see, I could help. But I know that I wouldnt come here of all places in winter, hell Im looking to go to Hawaii over christmas.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/17/2009 7:59a).]

I understand your reservations about coming in the winter but these are the main reasons for wanting to come:
1. One has deep family roots through much of the Netherlands and along the Rhine in Germany, the others family is originally from Germany
2. They are not that interested in going to a beach and sitting around, they would rather go out and see some historical sites
3. For one reason or another they have always wanted to go to Germany.

As I stated I am well aware it is not the ideal time to go but on the same token I have been many places that has not been an ideal time, and the fact that it is less crowded, plus things look different that time of year, made it a very memorable trip. Thanks for the advice and keep it coming.

Hey again Im willing to help, but what do they mean by historical sights?

Maybe you should figure out where they are interested in and what kinds of things they actually want to see, or is this a surprise?

Im just curious because I know almost all of Germany but I cant give any suggestions unless you give an idea of what the plan is.

Also you are right, there will be less tourists in January. Oh my wife says that if they dont have experience driving in snow and ice, that it wouldnt be a good idea. Shes overly cautious, but yeah I wouldnt drive at elevation no matter what.

Again just give me something to work with and Ill be happy to help.

I went with architecture and woodfin was the prof. Arianne was with us from AIB. visited Amsterdam, Cologne, Aachen, Bonn, Heidelberg, Munich, Berlin, Bad Munstereifel, Dusseldorf, Paris, Grenoble, Lyon, and London. Great trip overall. lots of memories!

I've heard that Hamburg is beautiful if you can make the trip up there.

I think Randy can help you out more than I can though!

He is from New York and she is from Alaska so I don't think the driving would be a big issue. Its not a true surprise but with the wedding stuff going on they asked me to "help" plan / plan their honeymoon. Sure there are the touristy places to go, and although they are that, there is still some value in going and seeing them. Not saying they are going to any or all of these but for example the cathedral in Cologne, Berlin Wall, heidelberg castle, Baden Baden(although I realize a lot of Germans come here too), town hall in Munich, etc... I am in the middle of getting a better feel of exactly what they want, but the gist I am getting is they want a mixture of some toursity places and some authentic German experiences.

Like I said if driving themselves that time of year is not that bad that may work, but I am well aware that the trains over there are very good. And the answer to that I am sure lays in their itinerary.

It just so happens when I agreed to this they were talking about going elsewhere, to places I had much more firsthand knowledge, but due to several things including price this is where we are. Thanks again.

Okay 7-9 days, is that inland 7-9 days or is that including arrival and departure days?

Arrival day is a total waste, even arriving in Frankfurt in the morning, the day is lost because no matter how much you think you slept in that plane (Lufthansa gives you free alcohol and it helps you sleep), you are still tired.

Yeah, so it depends, if they want to go to somewhere up north .. they "could" fly into Schipol (Amsterdam) or Brussels .. but Frankfurt is usually the cheapest.

Train has its advantages and disadvantages, if you have a rock solid plan and you will make NO detours, then the train works, it gets you right in the middle of town, which is a nightmare in most european cities with a car. The disadvantage is of course if you want to make a detour, you want to explore, you hear of something locally and you want to just "jaunt" over there. Also the train isnt exactly cheaper than driving, but since a rental car would cost money for being parked most of the time (both the rental car costs and the parking costs), I guess the train isnt a bad idea. Less stress from weather as well.

Okay, now for real advice.

1. They will not be able to make all the places you listed, not ONE chance and actually enjoy it. It is like Europeans talking about visiting NYC, LA, Miami, Texas all on the same trip, it just wont happen.

2. You need to pick out a "region" and then do that, or maximum two regions and then find interesting things in those regions. Take a look at what Im doing on the Oktoberfest thread for Aggieforster, I know where hes at and now Im creating things in the radius of 3 hours by train, Muenchen to Berlin is a long ways driving or by train, they would burn a whole day just getting there and then Koeln to either of those places is another full day. It makes no sense to waste 1/3 of their total inland stay with travel, train stations look like train stations for the most part, the one in Leipzig is pretty impressive in itself.

Okay thats what I have for now, keep me updated and I can help. But unless they are doing an Baden-Wuerttemberg stay/region, I wouldnt consider going to Baden-Baden.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/17/2009 12:06p).]

I flew easyjet quite a few times for a fairly cheap and pleasant way of getting around. I've heard Germanwings gets the job done well also.

its about a 2 or 3 hour flight from Bonn/Cologne airport to Berlin. watch out for baggage restrictions though; if you go over-weight they hit you with a hefty fee.

7-9 days will include travel. Right now I have them leaving on January 10th and returning on the 18th. Slightly flexible on that but that would allow flights ranging from 620-700 dollars a piece into most any major airport their and including Amsterdam, and that range would also include return flights out of a different one. So the to/from is definitely flexible for about the same price.

As far as regions they are very interested in the Rhine Valley due to his family history, and also have mentioned the Black Forest. I will let you know as soon as I get a little more info from them.

Re: humpitags09
Yeah that works if you are based out of somewhere like you were, but when you have to take your luggage around with you everywhere and thats international luggage allowance, those cheap carriers dont work as well. It is another alternative, but it isnt so significantly faster, 1 hour to the airport, 30 minutes at least before the flight, 2-3 hour flight, 30 minutes baggage check, 1 hour into Berlin center. 5-6 hours to fly, safely speaking. The drive is the same, ICE is a little faster and depending on your goal destination, probably closer, you could cut out the commute parts to and from the airport.

Re: cplatt
Leaving Jan 10, means they land on the 11th, the 11th then is a total waste because they will be tired and if they arent staying where the airport, then they need to get to their end destination. Returning the 18th means in the US the 18th? Yeah thats also pretty miserable, they will leave the ground pretty early on the 18th and then land in the US the same day, but that day will have 30-31 hours because they will gain the 6-7 hours.

So then they actually only have 6 days on the ground. Doing a Rhine thing and Schwarzwald thing is possible, flying into Frankfurt, then going down to Baden, heading north until they fly out of Brussels, Amsterdam or Koeln/Bonn, heck they even do boat trips like that, but I dont think they do them in winter.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/17/2009 12:47p).]

I know, the river cruises were what I was initially going to offer, but then I saw real quick that they don't really pick up again till March once Xmas markets are done. As I said they won't be leaving any earlier than the 10th but the return is somewhat negotiable.

[This message has been edited by cplatt (edited 9/18/2009 4:32p).]

Randy03 ~ from other Germany post on TexAgs I gather you live in Germany (or in Europe somewhere) which is great and helpful for us that live in the States, but do you always have to paint such a negative picture for people wanting info. on traveling to Germany.

You normally give good advice and tips, but we always seem to have to wade through all the negative comments to find something useful.

I don't think we're all that naive like you think we are about traveling abroad. I don't think people plan on visiting everything in the guide books or things people suggest, most of us like to over plan and then pick and choose what we do when we get there.

Anyway, just some useless commentary to add to my post count.

This has been a 100% helpful thread.

I even specifically didnt explode when the thread started off with two pictures of a crappy tourist trap in Oberbayern .. the worst of all regions in Germany (not due to scenery, but due to the fact that I could speak English and it would be NORMAL, thats a serious problem.)

Oh yeah and Clay ..

I thought of something last night.

Going to the Black Forest (Schwarzwald) would be not very pleasant in January. The roads are two lane for the most part and wind through rural, hilly/mountainous areas. There was a day last year where people were stuck on a pass for most of a full day due to snow covered trees becoming too heavy and breaking, thus falling down on the road. I remember the news from last year about it.

Trains are also not such a good option there, due to the fact that most of the towns in the actual Schwarzwald are very small. Its really an awesome place for scenery, I took my mom there as well, because she wanted a Cucoo clock (until she saw the prices). We drove through the entire forest from Villingen to Strassbourg on our way to Luxembourg, Metz and Paris.

It was nice in the summer (but still a bit chilly) and it will be cold as all heck during the winter. I wont say "dont do it", but yeah .. its seriously a bit more stressful than what I would plan for a honeymoon. Also, lodging might be an issue, because winter is high season in the black forest due to it being ski season. I know when I was in the Bayerwald/Böhmerwald a month ago, all of the places were mostly ski resort type things and that is also what the Schwarzwald is known for.

No need to do private emails though, Id prefer just to do things on here, if other folks learn something thats one less time I need to help.

Not to beat a dead horse, but January is definitely not ideal. Besides the weather, you don't get a whole heck of a lot of daylight in Germany in the dead of winter so there is a lot less time to sightsee. My advice would be to go to Hawaii for the honeymoon then hit Europe for their 6 mo or 1.5yr anniversary.


That said...

Randy is probably going to disagree with me on pretty much everything I say, but here's my 0.02 from doing a study abroad in Germany and traveling there a couple times since.

Suggested itinerary w/ 7 days (pictures lifted from wikipedia).

Day 1 fly into Frankfurt, see Heidelburg on day 2.


Heidelburg

Day 3 drive on to Strasbourg (France - just across the border). Great Cathedral and you get to see a little bit of France.


Strasbourg


Day 4 on to Freiburg im Breisgau, probably my favorite city in Germany - very romantic as well. The streets all have bachle - 'little streams' that used to provide fresh water in the middle ages.


Freiburg

Day 5 - it's a nice drive through the black forest on to Friedrichshafen on the Bodensee (lake Constance). You can enjoy nice lake views here and check out the Zeppelin museum.



Day 6 - it's a short drive to the touristy Fussen area where you can see Neushwanstein Castle. Yes, it's touristy. So what? It is a half day out of a week long trip. It is also beautiful, especially with the snow.

Day 7 - another short drive to Munich, where you can check out a beer hall (Hofbrau Haus if you want the touristy version or Augustiner Brau if you want less touristy). The Deutsches museum is excellent if you are into mechanical stuff like cars, trains, planes, etc.

If they have extra time or want to compress the driving schedule, Salzburg Austria is another great city to check out and it is only 1.5 hours from Munch. There are also a lot of ski slopes around there if they want to do that.

[This message has been edited by wessimo (edited 9/18/2009 3:08p).]

Yep that would be the itinerary for American in Germany and what Americans are going to say "you have to see that!"

But it would be unrealistic to do that tour in the winter, particularly driving and you wouldnt be able to do that tour very well if you arent driving due to the bad train connections, you would burn 50% of the time in trains. Also the Bodensee would be miserably cold, I mean ... its nice in summer but in January it would be probably -8C the entire day and then with windchill much worse.

Also it completely misses the main point of their trip, which is to see the Rhein.

A Frankfurt-Mainz/Wiesbaden-Koeln-Amsterdam-Home

Driving the Bundesstrasse 9 along the west bank of the Rhein, at least to Koeln .. would be what I would suggest doing.

Day 1 - Arrival - find somewhere to crash, either in Frankfurt or Mainz/Wiesbaden, I forced my mom on a deathmarch up the B9 (and up to the castle in Bacharach) when she came and we ended up in Aachen by nightfall, she was totally dead. Dont do this!

Day 2 - Explore Rhein-Main area, there are a ton of things to do, but dont go downtown Frankfurt please and avoid the main trainstation, its drug infested and the red light district is right off the main trainstation, there are a number of nice roman ruins in the area as the Rhine/Main rivers were important even in Roman times.

Day 3 - Drive up Rhein on B9, stops at Bingen, Bacharach, Bonn possibly stay the night in Bonn

Day 4/5 Explore Koeln, Koeln is worth two days, there is a lot to see

Day 6 Wow darn that would be the 2nd to last day on the ground, and you need to make it like 3-4 hours of driving to Amsterdam and see sights? See how time flies?

Day 7 Last day on the ground, explore Amsterdam during daylight (because you probably didnt get there until evening the day before) and then figure out how you are getting to the airport the next morning.

Day 8 Leave Schipol

I really dont see anyone doing much more than that in 6 days on the ground and having any time to see anything. If you want to do it like a japanese tourist, drive somewhere, jump out .. take a few pictures and then leave on to your next photoop (dont forget to give the peace sign in every picture) then yeah you could hit like half of the tourist attractions in the country .. but if you are on your honeymoon as I said in a much earlier post, Id take it slow and just enjoy some things.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/18/2009 4:07p).]

My wife added that there is no way in hell you could drive from Freiburg across the Schwarzwald without snowchains in winter. She comes from the area, so I will take her word on it, I was really cautious myself, but she said that it just wont go.

Also the roads from Friedrichshafen to Fuessen are also not very good and will be packed with snow that time of the year. Fuessen down to Muenchen would also be a mess.

That is just not practical .. its barely practical in summer (again doing the whole take a few pictures and jump back in the car approach) and in winter it just wouldnt happen.

Im not against doing touristy things, but again concentrate on two areas, Rhein/Main area with Frankfurt, Mainz/Wiesbaden, Koblenz and then Koeln area .. and finish with Amsterdam .. if you do that leisurely and actually look around instead of just running to a monument and taking pictures, could easily take up a week, if not 10 days.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/18/2009 4:14p).]

If you go to Koeln, you should also go see Koblenz. There are a lot of castles in that area and some fun towns.... Cochem, Burg Eltz, Bendorf.

The Eifel doesn't see to much snow and has a lot to offer.

Yeah the B9 passes Koblenz, Id at least stop and see the Deutsches Eck at the meeting of the Rhein and Mosel.

That being said, going out into the Moseltal (Cochem/Eltz) would add a day or two to their trip. I got married in the Reichsburg (castle's chapel) in Cochem, its very nice there. I just didnt suggest it because I was trying to help them do something relaxed that they could easily accomplish in 6 days. If they had two weeks on the ground, so 16 days total, then yeah there would be a lot more time to do things, even relaxed.

[This message has been edited by Randy03 (edited 9/21/2009 4:00a).]