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DMN article about Bonfire

6,533 Views | 112 Replies | Last: 15 yr ago by AggBock
Gigem314
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/dn090910-landauer_11edi.168d6f121.html

quote:
And that, more than safety concerns, more than charges of racism and sexism, is what drove a lot of opponents in those days. Professors and others saw Bonfire derailing lives long before the stack of logs killed 12 students.

First I've heard of it, particularly about "racism"...and that's not something you want to play around with when making accusations. "Derailing lives long before the stack of logs killed 12 students"?? Trying to play up the dramatics I see.

quote:
I still love Bonfire and the memories it provided. The vast majority of my friends never got so close that they got burned. But I don’t know how you bring back the tradition without bringing back the destructive culture it produced.

Destructive culture?? Please.

quote:
Besides, A&M is not that insular campus anymore. Bonfire would seem out of place on a campus that has become an open, welcoming university that puts strong academics above all else. A university that has campuses in foreign countries and even at sea. A school that doesn’t just give diversity lip-service, but has solid, proven plans that are working to attract more first-generation college students.

So you can't have Bonfire at a university that strives for academic excellence and diversity? I see. Should we cancel Muster as well, since it's a military tradition more than it is an academic one? What a load of crap.

quote:
Truth is, even when I was there in the 1990s, A&M was evolving and Bonfire had become an anachronistic connection to the school’s all-male, all-white military past. In the 1970s, when Rick Perry was there, it must have seemed important to preserve that recent past through Bonfire. It’s not an important part of A&M anymore.

It has nothing to do with that. The university has changed in a lot of ways over the last 20-30 years...but that hasn't hurt tradition. We did Silver Taps and Muster back in the "all male all white" days. So does this mean we should quit those too since by this guy's standards they do nothing but "preserve the recent past"??

I'm cautious about bringing back Bonfire for safety concerns as much as the next Aggie, but this is ridiculous.

What a sorry excuse for journalism the DMN is.


[This message has been edited by Gigem314 (edited 9/10/2009 5:56p).]
rtrd
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DMN trolling again huh?
oklacityag75
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So, bonfires are racist! How Obama!

The socialist take over continues. Is it time for another 1776? I am beginning to think so.
friscotexag
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I would say the article is right on......and I was there the night it fell so I am not judging from the outside.
Gigem314
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Do explain.

I could understand a rowdy environment. But creating a destructive culture?? Surely you find that a stretch.
p-wonk01
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Some truth....much sensationalism. The guy that wrote it is apparently an Aggie. I built three and burned two. There was some stuff out there that could be called questionable at times, but I never ran across racism or sexism!
MouthBQ98
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Journalism these days:

1. Find established controvertial or interesting paradigm

2. Cherry pick data to mold story to fit paradigm

3. Draw conclusions based on this false reality that the general public buys because it fits an established paradigm

4. Profit
AgBlitz
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I also agree with much of the article, however, I hope that someday the tradition can be returned in a more responsible way.
MouthBQ98
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Apparently:

racism at bonfire = a smattering of confederate battle flags on pots and bumper stickers in decades past, and the low numbers of minority students at A&M in general

Sexism at bonfire = people used crude language and tried to avoid getting the ladies injured

Gimme a break...
RGV AG
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Screw that newspaper, and I mean seriously why do people pay attention to all the PC crap and supposition that is out in society today. This kind of shat is what just makes me so damm cynical.
Gigem314
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I fully accept the fact that there was a rowdy element that was part of the building of Bonfire. If there was racism or sexism though, I'd like some proof before we start making such accusations and associating it with one of A&M's biggest traditions.

But if we operate under the idea that Bonfire did nothing but hold to A&M's "old all white/all male" past and wouldn't work the current group of students, how do you explain students coming together for Silver Taps and Muster just like they did in the old days? I hear we got together for football games in those old days as well. So is that a tradition that hangs on to A&M's past? I think that whole premise is ridiculous, and question whether the writer really thought that through when he was making this article.
Military Aggie
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My parents took me to my first Bonfire when I was 5, so for someone to say it is not a part of Texas A&M is full of BS. Texas A&M needs Bonfire it is a tradition that brings people of all walks of life together and for one cause!
Keegan99
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I seem to remember that name as one of the typical leftist Batt agitators that was constantly bemoaning everything wrong about A&M.
MosesHallRAB04
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You could just as easily claim racism and sexism in football (or anything for that matter) too if you wanted to be absurd. There's stupid people in all aspects of life. I guess we should just cancel everything.
scs2001
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I also agree with the writer, and I did see sexism, although I don't remember any racism whatsoever. Perhaps some of you remember the "grode stories?" Needless to say, they were extremely offensive. Of course, I lived in Crocker Hall, which was pretty much the armpit of campus, so maybe our dorm was worse than all of the other groups when it came to that stuff. I guess a lot depends on the culture of the group you participated with.
leoj
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I'd like to hear some specifics, because I don't really believe this at all. I'm sure when you got a lot of college kids together, and I'm just assuming since I never worked or saw bonfire, but it was probably a lot of guys, that it might get a little rowdy, but not stepping outside the norm that is college life. Seems like the article is a bit biased and sensational.
StringerBell
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racism was there...saw crew chiefs, brown pots, and yellow pots use choice words describing minorities.

also i remember the music that played out at stack at night that was pretty liberal with the n word.

the sexism far outweighed the racism, but the racism was there.

i share that not to put down bonfire, but rather just to set facts somewhat straight.

edit: i should rephrase. i did see racist things while working on bonfire. however, i'm not sure that i would go as far to say that the bonfire culture was marked by racism.

[This message has been edited by StringerBell (edited 9/10/2009 7:11p).]
t - cam
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As the culture of A&M has evolved over the years it seems silly for this writer to assume that bonfire would not also evolve in a similar fashion.
D/FW Ag 96
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quote:
I seem to remember that name as one of the typical leftist Batt agitators that was constantly bemoaning everything wrong about A&M.

we have a winner.
Stasco
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quote:
You could just as easily claim racism and sexism in football

There's no racism in football. There are a disproportionately large number of black players compared to white players on our team. That means it's not racist, right? But Stasco, surely those black players are there because they are the most qualified, right? Yes, yes they are. I rest my case.

/affirmative action rant.

(To clarify, I really do believe that the black players deserve to be there if they are the most qualified, just like it should be in academics.)

[This message has been edited by Stasco (edited 9/10/2009 7:43p).]
sleepybeagle
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Couldn't finish - it was too stupid.
AustinAg2K
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I do believe a lot of that article is correct, however the racism/sexism is what happens when you get a bunch of college guys together. I doubt there was any more racism/sexism than what's in a typical frat.

As for Bonfire ruining people's studies, that's true, too... But those students would have just found some other way to blow off school. Without Bonfire they'll turn to video games, or tv, or beer.

There is a lot of clean up they need to do with the atmosphere before bringing Bonfire back, but most of that involves safety issues. There's no reason that Bonfire can't co-exist with A&M.
Bulletproof Tiger
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quote:
As the culture of A&M has evolved over the years it seems silly for this writer to assume that bonfire would not also evolve in a similar fashion.


This.

There was definitely racist and sexist language at cut, stack, etc. Does that mean bonfire itself was marred by racism and sexism? No.

You get college kids together for long hours and hard work and maybe sprinkle in some adult beverages you are going to get some raunchy talk. And that talk was rampant but the talk was just a sidebar to bonfire which was about getting the students together to work on it and if not getting them there to see it burn.
Agsone
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I heard some racist remarks when I was growing up in East Texas, and we didn't even have a bonfire...how is that possible?

A&M Give Us Room!
swampstander
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quote:
also i remember the music that played out at stack at night that was pretty liberal with the n word.


I never remember them playing rap music at stack.
AGSPORTSFAN07
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No one has mentioned that this article was written by a former Ag from the 90's. At least that's what he says. I fail to see how someone who went to A&M in the 90's could feel like this last paragraph:

quote:
Truth is, even when I was there in the 1990s, A&M was evolving and Bonfire had become an anachronistic connection to the school’s all-male, all-white military past. In the 1970s, when Rick Perry was there, it must have seemed important to preserve that recent past through Bonfire. It’s not an important part of A&M anymore.


Really, you're an Aggie? Really?
caveman-economist
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We used to play football back when we were an all male all white school. Guess we should quit doing that too.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Wow, that guy is an idiot.
Gpagncs
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so i guess chillifest is racist to ?? or wait if there is a confederate flag around people are racist? oh yea if the majority of people there are white..they are racist? that what he makes it seem like. I hate how the world is today
Bottlehead90
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The DMN is trolling. The printed media is a dying media.

It makes as much since as France offering the USA military advice. Do they think we care?

sad, sad, sad.
KnowitallAggie
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The guy has absolutely no talent as a writer and in order to gain interest for his online article or blog, he throws out "attention-getter" words like racism, sexism, and all-white. If he did actually attend A&M he probably didnt have many friends, didnt appreciate any of A&M's traditions and probably never had the opportunity growing up to sit around a fire and drink beer.

I think everyone agrees that Bonfire needed to be safer in its construction, professional oversight and rules for student volunteers on site. To say that it is an "anachronism" and goes against A&M's current goals of achieving greater diversity and academic acclaim is absolute bull crap. It is simply a means of bringing Aggies together to celebrate the pride Aggies take in their university and the spirit we show in support of our football team.


[This message has been edited by KnowitallAggie (edited 9/10/2009 9:51p).]

[This message has been edited by KnowitallAggie (edited 9/10/2009 9:55p).]
Worm01
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I can't speak to the racism. Maybe he's just referring to the prominence of the rebel flags and the charming soliliquy of a few David Allan Coe songs. But anyone pretending the "sexism" he is speaking of was limited to guys telling dirty jokes and grode stories weren't paying close enough attention.

Are his facts accurate? Absolutely. But, that doesn't make his resulting premise correct. Was it a cultural thing? Yeah, probably. But it was getting milder and milder each year.
MosesRAB-93
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As a member of the Moses RAB for the fighting class of 93. A lot is lost on this idiot. One of the most ironic things about Bonfire and the whole Aggie culture that we share is that is IS INCLUSIVE. They just don't get it. I had the chance to build something MEANINGFULL alongside a lot of people from a lot of backgrounds different from my own. That my fellow Ags is what makes our University great. It is what every other alum ENVIES.
double bubble
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The more things change, the more they stay the same.

From the Final Report of the Bonfire Commission:

quote:
The physical failure and causal factors were driven by an organizational failure.
This failure, which had its roots in decisions and actions by both students and
University officials over many years, created an environment in which a complex
and dangerous structure was allowed to be built without adequate physical or
engineering controls.
This organizational failure is complex but includes such things as the absence of
an appropriate written design or design process, a cultural bias impeding risk
identification, and the lack of a proactive risk management approach.


quote:
Team 2/4 did find a potential barrier failure in the area of compliance culture.
Students involved in Bonfire are both very compliant and very non-compliant.
When group pressure to conform is strong, such as Bonfire traditions or student
leader instructions, non-compliance rates are very low. When group pressure
not to conform is strong, such as to consume alcohol and participate in
28
horseplay, non-compliance rates are high.



quote:
However, the investigation did uncover two significant management barrier
failures that were relevant to the collapse. The first had to do with the
University’s reactive risk management model and a cultural bias that resulted in
missed opportunities to identify structural problems.


quote:
In summary, the Commission identified four barrier failures that were relevant
to the collapse:
¶ Lack of student leadership knowledge and skills pertaining to
structural integrity
¶ Lack of formal, written Bonfire design plans or construction
methodology
¶ Cultural bias impeding the identification and resolution of potential
structural integrity risks
¶ Lack of a proactive risk management approach



quote:
¶ The University has a culture that instills bias and tunnel vision in
decision making.


Note the continued negative reference to the culture that existed around the bonfire and University. This culture is still present and is evident in the way that some react (read attack) when information not fitting the cultural norm is introduced. The shouting down of outside information leads to the "farmers, farmers, we're alright" drowning out information needed to make positive changes. The group think is not objective and labels anything perceived by the group as non-Aggie, 2%, etc.. The close-mindedness is the exact opposite of the idea of what a university should be.

It happens every time a criticism is leveled...read the thread...

"DMN trolling again"

"How Obama!"

"Screw that newspaper"

"I seem to remember that name as one of the typical leftist Batt agitators..."

"Couldn't finish - it was too stupid."

"Really, you're an Aggie? Really?"

"Wow, that guy is an idiot."

"The guy has absolutely no talent as a writer..."

"A lot is lost on this idiot."

The problem is that those who are the problem will not admit it and thus begin the change. The culture at Texas A&M hasn't changed anywhere near to the degree that the "farmers, farmers, we're alright" ers would have anyone believe.

The University spent $2 million dollars for a group of scientists and behavioralist to determine what anyone "on the outside" would have told you for free.

Sorry Rab, the culture of Texas A&M isn't inclusive and, while it may be changing, it ain't materially different than it was in 1999 and there's no evidence existing that shows it would have changed had bonfire still been on campus.

If it is "brought back" most of what old Ags remember about bonfire (the vast majority of which had nothing to do with the night it was lit off) won't be the same. They cannot entrust it to student leadership due to the failure of this leadership in the past...any future accidents under student leadership would not be defensible nor excusable. If it comes back, the students will be excluded from dangerous activities in the cut and the construction because they simply cannot be trained sufficiently and their leadership cannot be trusted.

From the report:

quote:
In the Commission’s view, skills and knowledge inadequacy of student leaders
cannot be easily corrected. There is no evidence that students at other institutions
demonstrate meaningfully greater skill and knowledge levels when engaging in
similarly risky projects. Also, it would likely be cost prohibitive to train
students, and given class turnover, it would have to be repeated regularly.


Take the students out and it isn't "bonfire".

The behavior involved in bonfire as it had evolved (or devolved) to by 1999 isn't anything to be proud of nor is it anything the University wants to (or can allow) to happen again.

Check this out from the Bonfire Report:

quote:
Team 2/4 found considerable evidence of irresponsible behavior in Bonfire.
Alcohol use was substantial, although student leaders reportedly prohibited
alcohol. Also, evidence of hazing and harassment by student workers and
student leaders as well as unnecessary horseplay and fighting was significant,
despite University efforts to control it. Team 2/4 documented dozens of
examples of these behaviors, some of which have led directly to accidents in
which students have been hurt or hospitalized. In the experience of the
investigation team, Texas A&M is unique in allowing this level of irresponsible
personal behavior in and around a construction project of this magnitude.


That "irresponsible behavior" is what many remember as "bonfire". Injury rates were growing...from 32 in 1996 to 59 in 1998 (84% increase)...the injury rate was as much as 7 times "greater than found in similarly
dangerous activities." Things were changing...not for the good...and the culture simply wouldn't allow anyone to see it...or those who did were shouted down, marginalized, and ridiculed just like in this thread.

I listened to a radio program in Houston where the talk show host mentioned alcohol use on the bonfire site and he got so many threatening calls that the station forced him to make an on-air retraction. I heard caller after caller berate him and tell him he was lying...that the rule prohibited alcohol on the site.

The US Fire Administrations Investigative Report of November 1999, titled, Bonfire Collapse Texas A&M University College Station, Texas has a table showing "alcohol related statistics complied by the local law enforcement agencies" and it lists for 1998:

Arrests: 18
Citations: 73

There were kegs, cans, and other signs of alchol use on the stack site clearly visible to the emergency and law enforcement personell who responded to the accident.

The US Fire Administration also had this information:

"The President also recommended a number of other changes in response to the Commission’s finding. Among the recommendations were:

(note, there 7 other recomendations listed here that I have omitted)

-There will be adult supervision and a crackdown on drinking"

The radio guy wasn't lying...but the culture reacted in an expected way...just as it has on this thread and will continue to do.

There's a real reason that the bonfire is not a university sponsored event and, IMO, never will be to the extent that it was...they simply cannot take the risk.
AmarilloBQ02
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Somebody please ban this guy...
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