I'm removing and replacing the floor joists in my living room and ran into a question. The house was built in 1959 and the joists are notched at both ends and installed on a ledger board (2x4). This isn't common practice anymore. Would I be better off:

- Notching the new joists to match what was done 50 years ago?

- Removing the ledger board and putting the new joists in with hangers?

I'm leaning towards the second option...

A pic in case it helps:

In the days of old-growth, full-dimension, hand-cut jointery, notching did add some extra "meat" where the Moment of Inertia is highest. In a perfectly-fit, end (not toe) nailed state, it was decent practice, and well emulated the older ledger methods used in balloon framing.

Sadly, though, notching modern framing lumber, all notching does is reduce the effective depth by the depth of the notch. Notch a 2x8 1½" and it's effectively a 2x6, with the spans & loading curtailed accordingly.

Joist hangers do not look all that substantial, but they are. They are much stronger for omitting toe-nailing, too. Mind, you do have to fill all the nail holes, and with the correct nails (no matter how enamored some framing crews seem to be of the clearly-magickal powers of 2½" sinkers from a Senco).

Piecemeal, I prefer to pad out the ledger, this will span any holidays at the joint, and gives a solid bit of meat to set the hanger into.

If it's a whole beam, then, I prefer to just make up a sister for the whole length. Sometimes, that means ripping the ledger off; sometimes that's scribe and pad in to fit.

Your mileage may vary.

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How many boards are you replacing? The notched board is better than joist hangers but it is more work. This is especially true if you cannot use the joist hangers that saddle the top of the board.

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All of them in this room (about 15) and closer to 20 in the kitchen once I wrap up in here, which is on the other side of the main beam. There were moisture problems over the years... lots of condensation was trapped in the insulation. The subfloor was disintegrating, the joists bowed (some cracked through), and the top inch or so is rotten. I'm encapsulating the crawlspace and adding a dehumidifier down there.

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Sadly, though, notching modern framing lumber, all notching does is reduce the effective depth by the depth of the notch. Notch a 2x8 1½" and it's effectively a 2x6, with the spans & loading curtailed accordingly.

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The notches do take 1 1/2 inches away, and a lot of cracking runs about about that far from the bottom of the old joists...

Somehow, the main beam and sills are in good shape. I'm tempted to pull the ledger board the joists are sitting on, install the new joists with hangers, rip the ledger down to just under 2" so it fits snugly between the bottom of the joist hanger and the top of the piers and put it back in. Maybe get the best of both worlds - the full 2x8 strength with the added support the ledger was intended to provide?

Fife, if I remember correctly, are you in Fife, WA?

If so, you may check with someone regarding seismic code. This may be completely off base, as I am not a structural engineer or building inspector, etc.

My understanding is toe nailing as shown in the picture or joist hangers from a ledger board don't provide any resistance to the lateral loads from earthquakes. I believe you need a positive direct connection to the wall.

Take this for what its worth, as I want to be fully clear I don't have expertise in this, but you may check with a structural engineer or someone familiar with construction in seismically active areas.

I used to live in the northwest, but now I'm in South Carolina. We have some seismic and hurricane issues here, but I'm far enough inland to avoid the coastal high wind and surge requirements. I have had to do fun things like include Simpson straps in the piers and beams I've added though. From what I've read, notched joists on a ledger board offer little uplift or seismic protection.

I'm thinking about going with these hangers:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-Z-Max-Double-Shear-Hanger-LUS26-2Z/100375011#.UXVegXcmZ8E
but going to ring up a Civil Engineer and another friend who's a builder just to make sure. Both are incredibly hard to get a hold of though.

I was going to suggest the same ties, Fife. That along with a purlin anchor (?) to tie directly to the studs in the cripple wall assuming they are there. But your location, looks like those hangers would more than suffice.

I'm a civil engineer by trade, but I design roads and have no need for this structural seismic nonsense. Just know enough to make myself nervous anytime I am doing home improvement here in Washington after growing up and learning construction practices used in and suitable for Texas..

I would suggest a larger hanger than an LUS26... Especially since you are using face mount and not top flange. I doubt your living room is small enough to be using 2x6 joists anyway. Try to match joist size to hanger designation. 2x6:LUS26, 2x8:LUS28, etc.

Crud... I already bought them and have a few in. I should have mentioned, the unsupported joist length is only 6 feet in this area and I'm putting doubles in. It's a complete overkill I know. The living room is rectangular in shape and shares the same structure as the entrance hall. The original hardwood flooring is going back in the living room, but stone with heating underneath is going in the hall which leads from the front door to the kitchen. Once this area is repaired I get to turn around and do the exact same thing in the kitchen. Fun times!