Pretty much as long as I've been playing I have been using an Odyssey 2-ball putter that I got at a fire sale when I first filled out my bag. Not a bad putter... or so I thought.

Recently, I've been playing with a guy who uses a Scotty Cameron Futura, and for some reason his putts just look different than mine. I don't really know how to describe it, exactly. But when he putts, his ball just seems to roll much smoother. A lot of times when my putt looks like it's going to die at the hole it ends up running five feet by, or when it looks like I crushed it the ball stops two feet short. His putts never seem to do that... it starts at one speed and just constantly slows down until it stops (unless it hits a slope, of course).

That observation combined with the discussion a little while ago about the Ping Ketsch just kinda made me decide to go buy one and try it out. It wasn't cheap... about $250. But I figured I would try it and if it turned out not to be worth it I would have no problem re-selling it.

Well, I am NOT going to sell this putter anytime soon. My putts now look like my buddy's. It just rolls SO smooth. Again, it is hard to explain but when you watch it roll it just looks different. Feel is a million times better as well.

So here is the PSA: If you're like me and you've never been able to bring yourself to spend a ton of money on a putter; if you think the putter you got with your starter set is just fine... At least go TRY a good putter. I used to think that putters were about nothing more than style or what suits your eye. That's BS. Better equipment equals better performance. I wish I would've given this putter a shot a long time ago.

You paid 250???? I got mine for 120

Worth it either way tho

It was the heavy version with the counterweight. As I typically do when I'm at the store I do a little Google searching to see if I'm paying FMV. I saw some online for $230, but the chance that I wouldn't choose the exact model I had been demoing in the store plus wanting to take it home with me right that second made it worth the extra $20.

Amazing deal at $120 even if it was used.

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It was the heavy version with the counterweight. As I typically do when I'm at the store I do a little Google searching to see if I'm paying FMV. I saw some online for $230, but the chance that I wouldn't choose the exact model I had been demoing in the store plus wanting to take it home with me right that second made it worth the extra $20.

Amazing deal at $120 even if it was used.

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Yeah I got the weighted as well. I ended up with the 34" instead of 35" but otherwise it was the same one I hit in the store. Its been great so far. I know exactly what you mean when you say the ball rolls differently

Good stuff, Bagger!!

Isn't it ironic that some folks will drop big dollars on the latest Driver and neglect the most used club in the bag?

Same goes with the practice range...you'll see 80% of the folks banging away at Driver and the practice green will be empty.

I smell our quarterly TexAgs Golf Board "what's the most important club in the bag" debate coming...

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Good stuff, Bagger!!

Isn't it ironic that some folks will drop big dollars on the latest Driver and neglect the most used club in the bag?

Same goes with the practice range...you'll see 80% of the folks banging away at Driver and the practice green will be empty.

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I am with you, you can even see the most important club thread:

http://texags.com/forums/60/topics/2625206/1

However, putting at the driving range doesn't mean much. Yeah, if it's your home club and that's where you usually play, I can see it. Outside of that, you're going to get different grasses, speeds and conditions. It doesn't do much good to putt on some random putting green.

Even if you're talking about putting before your tee time, most course practice greens don't match the greens on the course. I will always roll a few before I tee off -- but I don't know how much I really gain from it -- at least at most daily fee courses.

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Even if you're talking about putting before your tee time, most course practice greens don't match the greens on the course. I will always roll a few before I tee off -- but I don't know how much I really gain from it -- at least at most daily fee courses.

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Most courses keep their practice green with the same maintenance as their course greens...

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Even if you're talking about putting before your tee time, most course practice greens don't match the greens on the course. I will always roll a few before I tee off -- but I don't know how much I really gain from it -- at least at most daily fee courses.

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Most courses keep their practice green with the same maintenance as their course greens...

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We'll agree to disagree. It's rare I've walked off a daily fee course and felt the practice greens were a true representation of the course greens. I am even talking Falconhead, Newport Dunes (Palmilla Beach), etc.

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Even if you're talking about putting before your tee time, most course practice greens don't match the greens on the course. I will always roll a few before I tee off -- but I don't know how much I really gain from it -- at least at most daily fee courses.

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Most courses keep their practice green with the same maintenance as their course greens...

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We'll agree to disagree. It's rare I've walked off a daily fee course and felt the practice greens were a true representation of the course greens. I am even talking Falconhead, Newport Dunes (Palmilla Beach), etc.

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Yeah definitely disagree. Never been to a course that had a high enough variance between practice green and course to complain about. Always felt prepared after rolling a few through practice greens.

I would never putt at a driving range unless my last name was Sadlowski

Putting stroke, arc, straight etc and loft on a putter make a difference regardless of insert or milled face. I found my odyssey was very inconsistent like op mentions.

My ~$100 nike method putter just felt the most natural and smoothest roll out of the 30 putters i sampled over the years, regardless of brand, style, or set up view.

I am rolling the ball well and no plans to change since that part of my game seems to be the most consistent!

Probably a counterfeit. Scotty Cameron does not do sales and sets the pricing...

Ive recently experienced something similar.

While in Palm Springs, I went to the PGA Tour Superstore, and started rolling putts with a brand Id never heard of - Kenny Giannini.

I rotated through the various head styles, and while some felt better than he others, they all had an absolutely amazing feel coming of the face - one that I never felt from Camerons, Bettenardi or any others. I havent owned either of those brands, but since I spend alot of time practicing my putting, when Im in stores Id often picked them up to test them out. While both of those brands felt significantly superior to my gamer (Nike Method Core), neither of them compelled me to drop approximately $300 for a putter.

However this brand was different. Every single head configuration felt amazing at contact - even the shapes that I wasnt fond of. I absolutely despise the way golf equipment is marketed in the sport. Even though Ive done a fitting and all that stuff, Im of the thinking that the problem is me and my lack of execution - not the equipment Im holding. However, that being said, my next golf equipment purchase will no doubt be a Ken Giannini putter - if there was a PGA Superstore in Houston I'd probably already have one. There is no place to buy one here, and I'd like to roll a few with it before I drop $300+ on it.

I 100% agree that some putters are just made better and roll the ball better. I switched to a Scotty Cameron 10 years ago and the consistency and feel of my putts was so much better. My scores dropped as those 5-10 footers found the bottom of the cup more times than they used to.

For a few years I lived out of state, and would come back to Texas and play a round or two with my Dad. I just used a spare set of clubs, and an old putter I had used way back in the day... a Golfsmith Texas Wedge #20. I putted lights out with that thing and continue to do so.

I have 2 different Scotty Cameron's sitting in my closet, but they can't get into the starting lineup in front of that old Texas Wedge. I do use a Scotty Cameron Red Baby-t putter grip and a Cameron Headcover (even though the many years of non-headcover use have clearly taken its toll)

I love new putters, they seem magical. I've putted great and poorly with both expensive and cheapo putters with no apparent rhyme or reason. What I've concluded is that the technology of a putter is pretty much immaterial to the equation, and the putting stroke is one of the least athletic things you will do - stand still and move the putter head back and through (with confidence). But, it is important to match your putter head to your type of stroke. A quick Google search returned this page to me.... http://www.golfalot.com/buyingguides/putters.aspx I am sure there are other web pages with similar info.

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Probably a counterfeit. Scotty Cameron does not do sales and sets the pricing...

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Who are you talking to?

I assume he's talking to khaos288.

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I assume he's talking to khaos288.

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Weird...Mines ping, and he says Scotty Cameron?

Fwiw, most high handicappers can save more shots by practicing their long game than putting.

Wayward tee shots OB or in the hazard cost 15+ guys wayyyy more shots than the occasional 3 or even 4 putt.

^^^

The same can be said for most mid to low caps and their short game.

Annnnd we're off.

Big dog don't eat grass!!!

High handicapper-

You can have a good round when you keep the driver playable and don't lose balls or get penalties, even with average (for your skill level) putting.

You cannot have a good round, as a high handicapper, if you do not keep the tee ball in control to an extent....even with stellar putting.

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^^^

The same can be said for most mid to low caps and their short game.

Annnnd we're off.

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I totally agree. Mid to low players should probably spend more time on short game work. But most greens at the range are empty bc either a) their quality sucks, b) guys go the range to relive stress and *hit* balls, or c) they really suck at driving the ball and need to practice before their next scramble

To further contribute to the thread derailment:

About a month ago I played 9 holes and had 14 putts. I shot a 51.

A decent short/putting game will allow you to score and/or salvage strokes. A decent swing will ensure that you are actually in position to do so.

This.....

Crushed it

The handicap doesn't matter...different putting strokes and preference on feel will determine which putter is best. There are quite a few two balls on tour. The face angle could be different and the two ball is a face weighted putter which fits people who tend to go "straight back and straight through".

The loft of a putter is important too....and its loft needs to be correct relative how the putter sits at impact...too much loft at impact and the ball carries too far in the air and it takes longer for the ball to "turn over" and start rolling forward

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Ball striking is the most important skill in golf.

Highest correlation to scoring of any stat is GIR.
Highest correlation to GIR is distance to the pin.


The fastest and easiest way to improve your score is working on your putting and short game.

The most impactful thing you can do for your golf game is improve your ball striking.

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GIR as the highest correlation cracks me up.

Of course it has the highest correlation! GIR is the definition of an area really close to the pin really quickly. the game is getting into the pin quickly. Just sounds funny.

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Ball striking is the most important skill in golf.

Highest correlation to scoring of any stat is GIR.
Highest correlation to GIR is distance to the pin.


The fastest and easiest way to improve your score is working on your putting and short game.

The most impactful thing you can do for your golf game is improve your ball striking.

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Usually love Bagger posts. But aren't the last two sentences contradictory?

When I picked up the game of golf, I could have spent 8 hours a day a the putting green and still shot 120+. Not so sure short game practice would have improved my scores very fast.

I think the most accurate advice you can give someone concerning practice is simply to work on their weak points. My philosophy was always that I could acquire short game touch by playing multiple rounds of golf per week, but that there was no way I could work on my swing during the round. If I jacked around with my swing and "practiced" during a round, I was hopeless -- therefore, I spent 90% of my practice time at the range and it paid off.

Lately, my familiarity with greens and playing conditions are the #1 factor that will affect my scoring. I will generally score very poorly if I play a new course with unusual greens regardless of how well my ballstriking is. Similarly, if I play my home course, I can sneak out with a low-80's round even if I'm hitting the ball like crap, simply because I know how to score on those greens.

Weekly debate

Not contradictory at all, my friend. Let me explain what I meant using your example:

When you were a 120s golfer, you could probably knock ten strokes off your score in a couple of weeks by working short game. Spend a ton of time working on chipping and putting and it wouldn't take long before you made a very significant improvement. You could make a lot of improvement and you'd see results really quickly.

But as you said, spending every waking hour on the putting green and developing the world's greatest short game is never going to take you from being someone who shoots in the 110s to someone who shoots in the 80s. To make that significant of a leap, you need to be a better ball striker. Making significant improvements to your full swing takes a lot of work. Bottom line is that the full swing is a difficult athletic move while chipping and putting are pretty simple by comparison.

Spend two weeks at the range after work practicing your short game and you will probably see significant improvement in your scores.

Spend two weeks at the range after work trying to improve your ball striking and it's possible that in that amount of time you won't see any improvement in your scores at all. Or you might actually hit it worse. And most of us hacks aren't really even capable of improving our full swing without an instructor anyway.

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I think the most accurate advice you can give someone concerning practice is simply to work on their weak points.

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I absolutely agree with this point, but how would you define a player's weak point?

One thing that looks like a really good feature of that Arccos Golf system is their breakdown of different "handicaps" based on your performance so you can see what's holding you back:

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Weekly debate

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Never fails!!

It's a TexAgs tradition!!