What did it take to become consistently better....for you < 10 handicappers....

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agracer
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Background - picked up the game last spring from a long layoff. Shooting over 100 in March 2013 so I starting taking lessons and broke 90 last July (over two weeks shot 92, 88, 81, 91). My lowest score since that week was a 91 two weeks ago at a very tight local CC (lost one ball otherwise played pretty well).

I have a range plan at our local muni. and go 2-3x a week and hit a bucket and sometimes chip/putt.

But I just can't seem to find a rhythm on the course lately. When I broke 90 last summer, both times I was in a grove and just struck the ball really well (putting cost me a least 4 strokes both times). Felt confident, drives hit the fairway, got on the green with a chance a par on almost every hole.

Now, when I do get a good drive, my iron shot goes errant and I have to get up and down...or worse I'm behind a tree and have to get back on the fairway and I'm putting for bogey. And I always seem to have a least one, but usually two, blow up holes (+3 or +4) where everything just goes wrong. When I shot the 91 at the CC, I had a double and two triples (none of which involved a 3-putt)...holy hell that's 8 friggen' stroke).

So you <10 handicappers...when did you get to the point where you felt confident and stopped having those blow up holes on the course and how did you get there?

Do you find you still have a terrible game every now and then?
Ag_07
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AG
quote:
Do you find you still have a terrible game every now and then?

Yes. Everyone does, even the best in the world. Just watch and look at the list of guys missing the cuts every week.
ORAggieFan
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I'm a 23 index, so take my advise with that in mind. I started playing seriously again a year ago and have made improvements though.

The biggest place you will score is approach shots. I know my best golf is when I hit GIR more than normal and that's all about getting on within 175 yards frequently.

The other thing I believe can save some strokes is knowing how to manage the course. This can really help on blow ups.

I've enjoyed the following books:
Every Shot Counts - about the strokes gained calculation and how to divide parts of the game, some good advise on how to practice
Mastering Golf's Mental Game - good stuff on visualization and pre-shot routines
Golf Is Not a Game Of Perfect - a little outdated but still a good book. Some info on stats is wrong (read Every Shot Counts to know why) but I still got good parts from it and worth the read

As for your comment on people having bad rounds, it happens. My dad hovers around a 7, but can easily get off and be in the mid-80s.
Worlds Foremost Ag
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quote:
quote:
Do you find you still have a terrible game every now and then?

Yes. Everyone does, even the best in the world. Just watch and look at the list of guys missing the cuts every week.

Sure, but a few strokes over par can get you cut on tour. That's not the kind of "bad" round the OP is talking about. He's talking about a <10 handicapper shooting in the upper 80's or 90's occasionally.
Yesterday
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7 hp here and have been as low as a 5. I went from a 15 to a 5 in one year by simply practicing with a purpose. I took "the perfect practice routine" that was posted on here a couple of years ago and I practiced it religiously. I'm not sure if it was so much that particular routine that helped me or if I just finally went to the range with a set goal and practiced to reach it.

I got to the point where I could shoot +7 or 8 without breaking out my driver. Which wasn't all that great because I stopped pravticing with my driver as much as my shirt irons and putter. Because of this I really plateaued at a 5. I don't have near the time these days to complete that routine on a regular basis but I do still try to get a condensed version of it in once a week.
aggiebrother33
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everyone has bad days, no matter the handicap. I am a single digit and can still shoot high on a bad day, that being said most issues that male golfers have are bad tee shots and poor short game...mostly the 20-80 yard wedge shot. a double digit hcp. will probably only hit 50% of greens in regulation so the more you work on pitching and chipping the quicker your scores will drop. then, get comfortable with hitting the ball off the tee and try and eliminate one side of the golf course. that way you can stand on a tee and feel more confident. Good luck!
Aggie1391
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For me, it was eliminating the blow up hole(s). Doubles and worse absolutely destroy your score. My blow up drives usually came as a result of me hitting a tee shot wayy off line. I worked on my driver and now it has become almost the most consistent club in my bag (upgrading to a new driver also helped).

After that, it was short game. Having the confidence that you can get up and down from almost anywhere helps your course management and can shave off another few strokes.

And I still have my bad days where I can barely break 85. The seems to stick around for a week or 2 (longer in the winter) and then things go back to normal
AggieDruggist89
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Well,

You may not like what I have to say...

Golfed since early teens. Became single handicap rapidly. That being said,

I can still have a blow up hole - Triple or Quadruple bogey.. but not often. But these holes will be countered with a few birdies.

My bad shots aren't very bad. Because I play away from trouble, my bad shots are playable.

I have no fear of water. But I fear OB on the left side, and chip shot from hard pan tight lies.

If I have a bad round, mid 80's... it's due to bad short game and failure to get up and down.

Even if I lay off of golf for few years, my tee to green game doesn't change much. Pitch, chipping, and putting do.

I don't really work on my swing...as past 30+ years taught me that my swing doesn't change much. BUT, my tempo does. So I work on tempo at the range.

The key to my game, I learned to golf at a young age...and spent a lot of time on the range and golf course as a kid... even then, my handicap dropped when:

I learned to get up and down and

when my swing produced a consistent ball flight with predictable side spin...little right to left.

My goal is to avoid scores of 5 or higher. Most Par 5's around 500 yards, I try to play as a Par 4.
Sooper Jeenyus
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quote:
Background - picked up the game last spring from a long layoff. Shooting over 100 in March 2013 so I starting taking lessons and broke 90 last July (over two weeks shot 92, 88, 81, 91). My lowest score since that week was a 91 two weeks ago at a very tight local CC (lost one ball otherwise played pretty well).

I have a range plan at our local muni. and go 2-3x a week and hit a bucket and sometimes chip/putt.

If you want to improve your score, you're going to need to switch these two. Ball striking is important and, the better you get, the number shot types you're able to successfully execute will increase. HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.

But I just can't seem to find a rhythm on the course lately. When I broke 90 last summer, both times I was in a grove and just struck the ball really well (putting cost me a least 4 strokes both times). Felt confident, drives hit the fairway, got on the green with a chance a par on almost every hole.

Now, when I do get a good drive, my iron shot goes errant and I have to get up and down...or worse I'm behind a tree and have to get back on the fairway and I'm putting for bogey. And I always seem to have a least one, but usually two, blow up holes (+3 or +4) where everything just goes wrong. When I shot the 91 at the CC, I had a double and two triples (none of which involved a 3-putt)...holy hell that's 8 friggen' stroke).

So you <10 handicappers...when did you get to the point where you felt confident and stopped having those blow up holes on the course and how did you get there?

The best golfers still have those holes. They'll never be completely eliminated. You know what you call a consistent golfer? A professional. First, you can't make up for time on the range/course. Consistency comes with time as does better decision making. Identify what you do well and maximize it by having a strategy for how you're going to play a hole. This, too, will come with time and you won't have to think much about it. The more consistent you get, the more confident you feel. More confidence generally yields better results.

Do you find you still have a terrible game every now and then?

Yes. Everyone has a round they consider "terrible." The better you get, the more that definition will change; but, the result still feels the same (sorry to tell you).
ORAggieFan
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quote:
quote:
HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.


I'm SOOOO sick of this fallacy.
hot dog
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AG
AggieDruggist89
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quote:
quote:
quote:
HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.


I'm SOOOO sick of this fallacy.

How so?
ORAggieFan
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quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.


I'm SOOOO sick of this fallacy.

How so?
The best thing to do if you really want to understand is read Every Shot Counts. The gist of it is that approach shots are most important, followed by driving with putting and chipping tied for last.

The easy way I say it, if you could take the best part of one pros game to have for your own, what would it be. Putting would definitely be last for me. Even though they are better putters, they just aren't that much better. I'd take DJ's driver or Spieth's approach shots.
AggieDruggist89
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quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.


I'm SOOOO sick of this fallacy.

How so?
The best thing to do if you really want to understand is read Every Shot Counts. The gist of it is that approach shots are most important, followed by driving with putting and chipping tied for last.

The easy way I say it, if you could take the best part of one pros game to have for your own, what would it be. Putting would definitely be last for me. Even though they are better putters, they just aren't that much better. I'd take DJ's driver or Spieth's approach shots.

And DJ says he wishes he could putt like Spieth.
DannyDuberstein
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Because it's been proven to be incorrect. See "Every Shot Counts".

Yes, a high quality shortgame can shave a few strokes, but the major gains are to be made in the tee to green game.

I'm a 5 handicap right now, was as low as 2 before becoming a dad 12 years ago. For me, the difference between my good stretches and bad stretches has very little to do with what short game I have that day and everything to do with whether I'm leaving myself difficult approaches with bad drives or just hitting sloppy approach shots - missing GIR's or leaving myself too many long lag first putts vs. first putt attempts that result in some birdies or at worst tap in pars.
Ag_07
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quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
HOWEVER, most of your strokes are in the short game. Pitching/chipping/putting is where your score is. Spend more of your time on them.


I'm SOOOO sick of this fallacy.

How so?
The best thing to do if you really want to understand is read Every Shot Counts. The gist of it is that approach shots are most important, followed by driving with putting and chipping tied for last.

The easy way I say it, if you could take the best part of one pros game to have for your own, what would it be. Putting would definitely be last for me. Even though they are better putters, they just aren't that much better. I'd take DJ's driver or Spieth's approach shots.

He didn't say which was more important. He said most of your strokes are in the short game.

For a 10+ this is true. Since high HCs miss quite a few greens the strokes made with chips and putts it far outweighs tee shots and approaches.

For example you're maxed out at 18 tee shots but if you're missing greens and not putting well you can rack up strokes around the greens. For a 10+ this is where it's easiest to cut down on strokes.




1208HawkTree
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1 - Get a solid routine, and practice it. A lot. Stick to it on every shot until the ball is in the hole.

2 - Have a "go-to" shot that you can count on most of the time, especially when the wheels start coming off. For me, it's a 3/4 swing draw. I try to play a fade most of the time, but when the SHTF, I can go to that shot most of the time and keep it in play.

3 - Practice your putting. A lot. Get a chalk line, find a dead straight putt, and practice inside of 15 feet. A lot. I like to use three balls and hit each one with increasing speed. First ball falling just over the lip, second hits the back of the cup at the bottom, and the third one hits the back about halfway up.

4 - Don't worry about the results. Approach each shot as if it's the most important thing in the world. After you hit it, it's over and the next one becomes the most important thing you're doing. Again, a solid routine that doesn't require you to think about it is key.

5 - see #3.
Texas Ag 15
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Practice your short game religiously. Literally can't be stated enough. Everyone misses a fairway or a green in a round but if you can consistency chip to within a few feet and have confidence you can sink the putt that is huge. For me it's always been making sure I concentrate on every shot and don't rush it. You'd be surprise how much of a difference slowing down and taking a deep breath can make.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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Agree with 07. I understand Every Shot Counts, but for the guys I see outside my usual group I play with that struggle, they have no go to chip shot or can't read a green/get the speed down well enough to shave strokes. Too many people that are 10+ try to hit chips like a pro on TV or try flop shots when they aren't needed, etc. Get a practice routine chipping and putting so when you have a long chip you feel comfortable and when you have short sided yourself you can at least have confidence in that shot.

A 10+ is not sticking it on the green with any frequency and they need to be confident chipping and putting.
DannyDuberstein
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And I'd say if you don't want to be a 10+, you need to work on the things that are keeping you from sticking it on the green frequently.
ORAggieFan
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I mainly think putting is over hyped. As long as you aren't consistently three putting work on other things. If you can leg it and make a 3 footer you are fine. You just aren't going to improve that much. The average PGA pro makes 50% from 8 feet. The best makes 57%. That just isn't that big of a difference to care.

If you miss 4-5 footers then practice or if your 30 footer is leaving you 10.
Aggie369
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Im about a 5 HC

There's not a right or wrong answer for everyone on short game or driver

For me my short game is good and I struggle off the tee so improving my tempo helps me be more consistent and keep the ball in better positions.

I would rather have a good short game and a decent driver than a good driver and decent short game...that's just me

I would say to track fairways, greens, and putts when u play. How many balls do u lose off the tee box? How many times do u three putt a round? How many times do u pitch/chip onto a green and not put the ball inside 8 feet, 6 feet, 4 feet?...how many times do u miss a green from inside 100 yards?.....track these things and choose one that u feel u can improve quickly with
Ag_07
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quote:
And I'd say if you don't want to be a 10+, you need to work on the things that are keeping you from sticking it on the green frequently.

Man that's hard to do. There's a reason hacks are hacks but there's no reason a hack can't be a good putter and chipper of the golf ball.

Everyone wants to be the guy lacing 7 irons to 6 feet, but if you can't make the putt what's the difference? Ask DJ. Just no sense in working on the hardest aspect of the game when you're blading and flubbing chips and 3 jacking 20 footers.

I say get good around the greens and shave some strokes off, get some confidence. Once you get a solid foundation and consistency in your scoring then start tinkering with your game and working on your approach shots from 125+.
DannyDuberstein
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Didn't say it's easy, but sharpening one's short game is only good for a little upside on the whole. You make significant moves between handicap tiers by cleaning up the tee to green game, as "Every Stroke Counts" has demonstrated.

you can work on 8 footers until the cows come home, and maybe you make one every once in a while that you wouldn't have otherwise.

And I'd say a hack that is willing to spend time practicing anything can get better in the long game with more impact to their score vs. if they spent the same amount of time on their short game.
Yesterday
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quote:
I mainly think putting is over hyped. As long as you aren't consistently three putting work on other things. If you can leg it and make a 3 footer you are fine. You just aren't going to improve that much. The average PGA pro makes 50% from 8 feet. The best makes 57%. That just isn't that big of a difference to care.

If you miss 4-5 footers then practice or if your 30 footer is leaving you 10.


I don't think you realize how bad 20hp's are at putting. Lagging a 30 ' putt to 3 feet isn't easy. I highly doubt most 20 or even 15 handicappers can make 8/10 3' putts without practice.
Ag_07
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You make significant moves between handicap tiers by cleaning up the tee to green game, as "Every Stroke Counts" has demonstrated.

Completely agree on this.

But I think priorities change with your HC. As a 15-20 (which at scoring at best 91 that's where OP is right now) your priority should be not wasting strokes. Double chipping and 3 putting is wasting strokes.

Once that's accomplished you can then turn from not wasting strokes to attacking and eliminating strokes. This would be your bombing it and sticking it.

Again, I'm not saying tee shots and approaches aren't important (I think in the long run they are the most important) but as high HCer it's more important to not waste strokes by being sharp around the green.
jonj101
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I havent read "Every Shot Counts" yet, but last year I did start working on the "Ultimate Practice Routine" that was posted here. I spent hours working on my putting and chipping, and saw my handicap drop down pretty good and was making progress.

However, I have been stagnant at a 14, and a huge reason for this is not being able to get off the tee box/a bad golf swing. I estimate I literally lose 10-14 strokes a round from penalty or recovery shots due to poor tee shots.

For example, when I review one of my recent rounds on my Nike Golf app, it looked like this: Fairways Hit - 4, GIR - 4, Putts - 30, Number of Pars - 8, Final Score - 90.

Not hitting enough GIR's puts you in defensive mode where you constantly having to scramble, and at this point in my game I cant expect to make every single scrambling par putt - for me some of those are simply going to be bogeys. Im not sure if everyone is like that, but in my case I think the bottom line is I have to find more fairways & greens.

Aggie369
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I agree....its not about making the 8 footer but not 3 putting from 25 if ur a 90s player
DannyDuberstein
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I was that 91 shooter at one point in time though, and I didn't go to a 5 handicap because I eliminated a double chip or two in a round and made a couple of extra putts out there that I wouldn't have made. I'd say 80-90% of my progression came from improvement in my long game.
birdman
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The OP was shooting around 100. Striping a 4 iron onto the green isn't in the repertoire.

On 3rd hole, he three putts from 12 feet. 40 putts per round isn't out of reach.

On the 12th green, he was on the fringe. A good chip and he is up and down for par. A decent chip will lead to two-putt bogey. He blades it over the green by a mile. Hello double.

On 15th green, he is in the bunker. It takes him three whacks to get out of the trap. And he's still 50 feet from the hole.

On multiple holes, he hits a decent approach shot. Maybe it's pin high but off the green. Or it's a club shot. Guy is probably hitting 2-3 greens in regulation. And he doesn't have a go-to pitch shot to get on the green.

That is 100% what he needs to work on. Once you get to 90, then you concentrate more on full swing. The full swing improvement will help lower scores in big chunks. However, you have to crawl before you can walk.

Plus, most of those mistakes I just described are multipliers. Once you make those ghastly errors, you get angry. And then you compound those errors.
gravy97
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The answer is... you work on all of it... You can't only improve your short game. You can't only improve your driving. You can't only improve your irons. You also, don't need to neglect any of it.

Spend time on the range... not just mindlessly pounding balls, but by thinking through each shot, picking out a target... taking your time. Trying to have a simple, repeatable swing thought to help you constistently repeat your swing.

And same thing with chipping and putting... take your time, don't get sloppy in your practice.

But, its also ok to have fun. Make it a game when your on the range. Make it game when you are putting. Whether you are challenging yourself or a buddy.
ORAggieFan
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Or, 1st hole he drives it OB. He hits his second tee shot behind a tree in the right rough. He now punches into the fairway and is lying 4 leading to a quad.......

If people don't want to believe examination of thousands of golf rounds then fine.

I know I can get better at every part of my game. I currently average hitting 3/14 fairways and 4/18 GIR. I primarily work on driver and 125-150 yard range and then chipping followed least by putting. My putting work consists of hitting 6 footers while on conf calls. When I've scored well it's because I'm in the fairway and I'm hitting PW-7i onto the green. If I do that every hole and three putt I'm still way better off (not that I three putt much).
DannyDuberstein
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quote:
If people don't want to believe examination of thousands of golf rounds then fine.


Exactly. Are you a man of faith or a man of science? [/From Lost ..... golf balls]

funny that multipliers were mentioned, because the wicked ones are found in the long game. I don't know if too many greenside chips or long putts that by the time I go to hit the following shot, I've recorded a penalty stroke or find myself punching out from some ****.
Ezra Brooks
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Most folks talk about shaving the most strokes in the short game.

I use to think that as well, but read the linked article on GolfWRX and think there's a lot of truth in GIR being the key.

Greens in Regulation
powerbelly
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For me, my best rounds come when I don't take penalties off the tee and have a better chance for GIR.

That means I work mostly on driver and long game.

Re-teeing after hitting ob or chipping out from the woods is not a recipe that leads to pars.
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