US Open Qualifying

2,673 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by saltydog13
Ezra Brooks
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AG
I live in Kingwood and drive by Deerwood everyday to get to the house. I'm always aware of when they host qualifiers for the US Open and the Tour (now the Web.com qualifier given the new Tour School format).

I've always wanted to go by and watch some, just to see how good some of those guys are.

Yesterday was a Local qualifier. I found the scores posted on the Texas Golf Association website.

I don't recognize any names - do any of you?

Also, I'm sporting a 22.1 handicap so I have no room to call anyone out, but isn't almost statistically impossible for some that meets the criteria to make an attempt to qualify to shoot a 98?

Deerwood is looking to be in pretty good shape, but there's no way it was set up hard enough for a 1.4 or lower index to put up a 98...is there?
tamu2009
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I think some people probably reverse sandbag just to get a chance to qualify, just to say they tried. I belive I heard that if you get caught doing that, you can be banned from ever qualifying again, but I might have made that up.
Ezra Brooks
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I can see someone getting completely nervous/freaking out and shooting 85.

I'd expect that under normal conditions it's statistically difficult for a 1.4 or lower to do so, but I guess the nerve factor could make it happen.

But a 98 just seems to much of a stretch.

I've only played Deerwood once, in January in a new member welcome event (I am a member at Kingwood) and I shot 102....I wasn't carrying a handicap at the time, but 95-107 was pretty typical for me then.

Yes, I'm aware that we were on different tees, the stakes weren't the same, etc. but 98 shouldn't happen for a 1.4 handicap.
jonj101
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I recognize a few of those names - some of the guys play at my home course (Golfcrest).

Ive played Deerwood once, but not from the tips. Its a great course, but there is no way I'd sign up with a vanity 1.4 just to say I played in a qualifying. I'd rather put in the work if I could and try to get down to that level.
HouAggie
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I recognize lots of names. Crancer and Lister play for the Ags, for starters.
HouAggie
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And Veerman and Paysse.

The Hammer kid is really good. Just won the Bluebonnet a couple days ago. Unfortunately, a future tsip.
dbtexasag05
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They can definitely do that to you.

I think if you shoot 11 over your handicap they can do that to you.

Also I have friends that won't play in any more U.S. Open qualifiers because they basically are a pro event. That one looks to have solid field of amateurs.

In Colorado it is basically a mini tour event
CapCity12thMan
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I recognize the names from Austin. Joe Beck plays for Rice.

In one of the US Amateur qualifiers I entered, some kid shot 102. You could tell he played, but it was a hot miserable day at Oak Cliff CC in August of 1999 - if anyone can remember the heat that year...anyway he just couldn't catch a break but I felt bad for him.

I did US Open qualifying one year and it was fun. Lots of good players. I shot 76 at Austin CC, and was +4 on holes 9-11. Really stings me to this day.

Anyone with a LEGIT handicap has a right to enter...you can always lookup the person by name and state on GHIN and see what it really is, but I would imagine it is legit on GHIN. Some people reverse sandbag, yes, but you'll never know unless you actually know the people and their capabilities.

so yeah - picking a name at Random from the bottom of the list: Greg Boyd. Don't know him, apologies if someone on here does. His handicap is a 4.9. He should not have been allowed to enter.

http://www.ghin.com/lookup.aspx
agsalaska
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I dont know how anyone who has a 1.4 could shoot a 98. Dont have an answer for you on that one.
HouAggie
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The guy is DFL is actually a good player. When I clicked the name, I recognized the pic. Won the state publinx a couple times. Also led or almost led the state am a couple years ago. Maybe he was injured or just hasn't picked up a club in a year?
mt3950
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Helmle played for the ags around 02-04...Ryan Baca played for bu...there are some sticks on that list that apparently couldn't get close. don't be fooled, you have to be damn good to qualify.
CapCity12thMan
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As a player whose handicap has fluttered between +1 and 1 for the better part of 15 years now, the highest I have gotten it in a tournament is 86. A bunch of 80-82s in there too. I can't fathom how bad it must be to get it higher than that. Of course some people drown themselves in self pity and just quit on the round and run up their score. Why I don't know.

I would think the USGA filters out those over 1.4, but I guess they don't. The person mentioned DFL - there is only one person with that name in TX that has a hdcp below 2. His is a 1.7. Again, should not qualify to enter.
1208HawkTree
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Only thing I can think of is el Hosel reared his ugly head, or something along those lines. I've been through it and it can literally come out of nowhere. When I caught mine, I was nearly scratch at the time, and shot a 95 in a casual round from one tee up, but in reality it was probably closer to 105 because I just picked up on 7-8 holes after multiple hosel rockets OB. Not likely to happen to players of that caliber, but it can happen.
Ezra Brooks
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quote:
As a player whose handicap has fluttered between +1 and 1 for the better part of 15 years now, the highest I have gotten it in a tournament is 86. A bunch of 80-82s in there too. I can't fathom how bad it must be to get it higher than that. Of course some people drown themselves in self pity and just quit on the round and run up their score. Why I don't know.
I guess this is what I had in mind when I mentioned that I could see a low/mid 80's score posted, but not a 98 by someone with a 1.4.

Again, I'm sporting a legit 22.1, so I know I'm not a good player, but I have an interest in learning more about how handicapping works and I've seen (though I can't find now) and chart show some statistical likelihood for a range of scores by handicap range - and were talking something like a 5sigma chance of a 1.4 posting a 98.

quote:
I would think the USGA filters out those over 1.4, but I guess they don't. The person mentioned DFL - there is only one person with that name in TX that has a hdcp below 2. His is a 1.7. Again, should not qualify to enter.
Isn't the TX Golf Association the "governing body" for handicaps in TX? I know that when I go to GHIN to post my score it shows me as being associated with the TGA....I'd think they'd have the ability to verify a person's handicap to ensure eligibility for entry.
Tom Hagen
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Matt VanZandt played on our national championship team.

HouAggie
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CapCity, I don't see an (a) next to that guy's score, so I guess he's a pro and doesn't carry a handicap. I think pros have different eligibility rules.

But thoughts and prayers for his income as a pro if he's shooting 98. Maybe he's a teaching pro, as opposed to a playing pro.
agsalaska
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quote:
As a player whose handicap has fluttered between +1 and 1 for the better part of 15 years now, the highest I have gotten it in a tournament is 86. A bunch of 80-82s in there too. I can't fathom how bad it must be to get it higher than that. Of course some people drown themselves in self pity and just quit on the round and run up their score. Why I don't know.

I would think the USGA filters out those over 1.4, but I guess they don't. The person mentioned DFL - there is only one person with that name in TX that has a hdcp below 2. His is a 1.7. Again, should not qualify to enter.


Me too. An 86. Actually a couple of them. One was in horrible wind. The other I just F'D up.
whasty
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All this talk of a 98 reminds me of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Flitcroft
agsalaska
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quote:
All this talk of a 98 reminds me of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Flitcroft
Awesome. Never heard of him before.
garym2001
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Cole Hammer, who shot 68, is a sophomore in HS and member out at my club. Unfortunately he's already committed to Texas.
USGA77
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I've run several USGA qualifiers over the years and just ran a Senior Open sectional a couple of weeks ago. Officials in charge are asked to report anyone who returns a score that is more than 12 strokes over the course rating as set up for the qualifier. We also have to report anyone who WDs during the round without a medical issue, or anyone who no-cards.

As a practical matter, I've always somewhat used the eye test when I can on the high scorers. At my Senior Open qualifier I had a couple of guys shoot a couple of strokes over the 12 stroke threshold, meaning they shot 87s and 88s. We had tough weather conditions. I gave them a pass. Then there was a guy from Canada who of course was in the last group, signed up as a pro, and returned a score of 106. I observed his play. Didn't pass the eye test. I turned him in to the USGA.

Those who get turned in get a letter from the USGA asking them to provide further proof of their playing ability by citing results in other tournaments, if they want to enter future US Open and Sr Open qualifiers. That usually nips it in the bud, but each year new ones pop up. So it is a bit of whack-a-mole.

Some of the issue is that when qualifiers are played on really good/really private courses some guys say, "hey for $125 I get a practice round and a tournament round" so they sign up to get two rounds of golf in at a good price.

This has been going on for years and years. We do what we can to police it.
USGA77
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quote:

AgPrognosticator
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The 98 had 8 holes of double bogey or worse. There is no way a 1.4 would play almost half the course that poorly.

He did have two birdies, which seems to indicate that he is somewhat decent.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'd agree with HouAg that he was injured and/or rusty.
'03ag
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quote:
some of the issue is that when qualifiers are played on really good/really private courses some guys say, "hey for $125 I get a practice round and a tournament round" so they sign up to get two rounds of golf in at a good price.

This has been going on for years and years. We do what we can to police it.
not gonna lie, if I were a legit 1.4 I would do that every year.
tamu2009
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quote:
quote:
some of the issue is that when qualifiers are played on really good/really private courses some guys say, "hey for $125 I get a practice round and a tournament round" so they sign up to get two rounds of golf in at a good price.

This has been going on for years and years. We do what we can to police it.
not gonna lie, if I were a legit 1.4 I would do that every year.
Thats my goal of getting down to a 1.4. I was well on my way last year but have been trending the wrong way this year.
CapCity12thMan
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so back in the day, I just had to go get my friend's country club pro who let us sneak on for free sign my AJGA applications and such to vouch for my ability. I am sure the USGA events were similar? So I understand how 20+ years ago there was likely a lower quality of golfer entering these tournaments.

Today, in 2015 - why can't the USGA mandate GHIN handicap verification and do all this prior to letting people in the tournament. Charge the $125, but it is non-refundable pending GHIN hdcp verification. Surely someone has suggested something like this. I am sure there is a reason that it hasn't happened yet and would be curious to know why. Seems to me this would solve the problem and strengthen the overall quality of entrants. If the USGA wants to have more entrants - this is what the Publinx was for...I believe he handicap requirement for that (when it existed) was 8.4?

In reference to my earlier post - my day with the guy who shot 102 at my US Amateur qualifier was miserable. Did it have an affect on my game? Of course. Should it have? Of course not, but that's a different problem.
tamu2009
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How do you propose a GHIN verification work?
ORAggieFan
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You can have a USGA handicap without a GHIN.
CapCity12thMan
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Yes, I realize there are other systems out there other than GHIN. My bet is that GHIN is the widely adopted standard for clubs, organizations and events from which to manage handicaps. My point is not about GHIN. It is about having a governing body that identifies the handicaps that the USGA is able to validate as part of the registration process.

Could people lie and enter in lower scores than they shoot to get their handicap down? Sure, but there is a yearly cost for most people to have their handicap managed and a bit of data entry effort to keep it current, which seems like a hurdle for those that just want two nice rounds for $125.
AggieDruggist89
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I can see a 1.4 who got that handicap by bumping his balls and mulligan off first tee shoot a 98.

Ive played with some dudes who allow winter rule who basically tee up every shot. I've even thrown some tees at em and say why don't you just tee it. After that those dudes will get a string of doubles and triples.

also...if they play the same course all their life...to get to 1.4.

Then under the tourney pressure they will falter. Like Greg Norman and his 76 or 78 at the masters
CapCity12thMan
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This is why I don't believe what anyone says about their golf game unless they play tournament golf.

I remember a Golf Digest article where a writer went out to local courses a few times, got paired up with 3 strangers. Unknown to the 3 strangers, the writer kept actual score of the other 3 guys. On average, I think he determine that each scored 20+ strokes higher than they said they did due to rule violations, which included gimmes, bumping it in the rough, etc.

Someone who plays like this to get to a low handicap would not break 85 in a valid tournament. I've seen it happen too many times...

"I shoot in the low 80s usually"...typically translates into high 90s in my experience.
saltydog13
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I was a low single digit handicap in high school when a bad round was shooting anything high 70s and up. I ended up getting burned out on the sport senior year and finally it blew up in my face with a 95-102 tournament score at horseshoe bay. That was extenuating circumstances, but freak rounds even for someone with a 1.4 or less handicap can happen. I feel bad for whoever has that happen to them though. I wouldn't expect a 98(?), but **** happens
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