Should the USGa

1,345 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Chipotlemonger
Yesterday
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Yesterday
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AG
Damn. IPhone

Should the USGA ban raking the bunkers? I was listening to some interviews today at Doral and on more than several occasions the players were saying they were trying to hit it into the greenside bunker. Has the bunker hazard become less hazordous than the rough?
KatyAg01
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AG
Don't need to ban raking them, just change the rakes. Jack had special rakes with large, widely-spaced tines used at The Memorial years ago, and the players couldn't stop *****ing about how the ball would settle in the deep furrows and leave them with a "bad" lie...which is the whole point of a hazard. Can't control/spin it as well, and thus it will penalize even the best players.
LeFraud
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Idk, I would think the odds of getting a bad lie are still greater than getting a good one, raked or not. Interesting question though.
LeFraud
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And if they're good enough to aim and hit into the bunker, why not aim at the pin!

Don't get me wrong, these guys are good, but I think we often give them more credit than they probably earn.
1208HawkTree
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AG
I think in the case of this week, it's that they'd rather be in the sand vs. the water, which is everywhere at Doral.
dcrewint
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I believe I read this somewhere before. Harvey Pennick?
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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AG
You have to consider that maybe 75-80% of a bunker is a very playable lie and unless the weather has been bad, the nice sand allows these guys almost the same percentage as a long putt (I'm pulling these % out of my rear, but watching tourneys, seems like the case). And it's not that they are "aiming" for the sand, but it certainly is in their hitting area they want to land if they miss slightly on their shot.

I loved it when Jack had those snaggle tooth rakes, I think it made it a hazard again like it should be. I wish they would all do it and give them one more thing to overcome considering the talent they have.

I'd throw a bunch of pebbles and clumps of clay in there also like I have to put up with in my rounds at the muni's.
bagger05
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AG
I think it's just a risk management thing. I think at Torrey Pines when that rough is up it is way better to be in the bunker. At Doral if you are between clubs and you have a bunker short or water long, which play is the wise choice?

I think good course management means you need to consider how the hole is defended and try to take the primary defense out of play. At Augusta you see players do everything they can to avoid being above the hole. In The Open you have guys who will try to avoid bunkers at all costs. At Doral you're just seeing guys trying to take the water out of play and that often means bringing bunkers into play.

Looking at the scores on the leaderboard where less than half of this elite field are playing par or better, I don't think they need to do anything to this set up to make it harder.
klockness
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AG
It was Harvey Penick's Little Red Book that he mentioned this so it's not a new thing. There are obviously several variables but as long as my ball isn't buried over 3/4 of the way I'd rather be in a bunker with soft thick sand than tall thick grass.
GIF Reactor
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I think the bunkers should be more of a true hazard. I've heard many times about the players aiming for the bunkers because it would be an easier shot, for whatever reason. It wouldn't make for the pretty pictures you see of greens with bunkers, but I think they should just be areas that are not maintained and truly penalize the player.
AgDotCom
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A friend of mine caddied for his assistant club pro at the '94 US Open and I got to walk inside the ropes with them using a media pass. Many times they'd aim at or close to a greenside bunker because of the thick US Open rough and because many Oakmont greens will not hold good shots which will bleed off into the rough. A sand save is much easier for the players.

And as said above, at Doral you want your miss to biased toward a bunker rather than the water.

I've heard other people in the golf biz say that a lot of tour events have bunkers that are shaped in favor of the pros, meaning they're formed and raked to allow the ball to roll into a flat lie maybe even a perfect lie at the bottom of the bunker....perhaps with a little showmanship intended to make us "think" these guys, while damn good, are better than they actually are. All I know is I never seem to get lies in bunkers that these guys get. US Open or British Open bunkers, well, that's another story....they often are more penal (but still better than ankle deep rough or water).
bagger05
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I guess my general philosophy is that this game is hard enough as it is. Golf is kicking my ass on its own as it is currently equipped. Let's not give Golf a set of brass knuckles so it can more thoroughly beat the crap out of me.
Chipotlemonger
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quote:
I guess my general philosophy is that this game is hard enough as it is. Golf is kicking my ass on its own as it is currently equipped. Let's not give Golf a set of brass knuckles so it can more thoroughly beat the crap out of me.
Spot on
Chipotlemonger
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However, I do think the pros need to be penalized more for sand HAZARDS
bagger05
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I disagree.

This field is elite -- all top 50 golfers in the world. The rest of the field all punched their ticket by being really freaking good. And of these 73 guys, after almost two full days 51 of them are shooting over par. I think golf is hard enough even for the pros on most of these tournament setups.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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quote:
I disagree.

This field is elite -- all top 50 golfers in the world. The rest of the field all punched their ticket by being really freaking good. And of these 73 guys, after almost two full days 51 of them are shooting over par. I think golf is hard enough even for the pros on most of these tournament setups.

I look at it as a fair setup. 2/3 above par, 1/3 at or below.
bagger05
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I love when tournaments have scores like this. I feel like this scoring is about perfect. Guys playing extremely well are shooting high 60s low 70s.
ORAggieFan
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The problem I have is a ball that lands on the left half of the green rolling off and into the water on the right (Holmes first hole). That is just not fair.
Chipotlemonger
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AG
Eh I think we're arguing the same thing.

I'm speaking to tournaments in general, not just this weekend. Doral is hard enoughz
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