A few thoughts looking ahead to Hazeltine 2016:

1. First and foremost, the first call the PGA of American HAS to make for its 2016 captain is to Fred Couples. Make him tell you no. If he won't do it, give Azinger another shot. He seemed to have a good recipe for success in 2008.

2. Time to phase out some of the veterans. I don't think guys like Furyk, Z Johnson, Mahan, Simpson and Kuchar are necessarily the problem, but they've consistently come up short in crucial situations and don't seem to be wired for the event. With our current point system though, you can bank that a few of those guys will be back on the team because it rewards consistency over a long period of time. Those guys are among the most consistent players on Tour.

3. America has some very talented young players that will hopefully take the next step in the next two years. We've seen from Spieth, Fowler and Reed that success in NCAA Tournament match play, USGA amateur match play events and Walker Cup can translate to success at the Ryder Cup. Some guys I'll be keeping a close eye include: Billy Horschel, Russell Henley, Justin Thomas, Patrick Rodgers, Peter Uihlein and Brooks Koepka.

4. Bubba Watson and Keegan Bradley were disappointing, but I'd still like to see them on the 2016 team. They seem like good home team players who can feed off the crowd.

5. With McIlroy, Garcia, Kaymer, Rose and Stenson, you could make the case that Europe had the best five players in the tournament this week. The WGR rankings may not technically show that, but I would pick any of them over any American. We REALLY need Tiger and DJ healthy and in good form in 2016 to help match that firepower.

This would be my initial hope for the 2016 squad:

Tiger Woods
Phil Mickelson
Jordan Spieth
Rickie Fowler
Jimmy Walker
Patrick Reed
Bubba Watson
Keegan Bradley
Dustin Johnson
Billy Horschel
Russel Henley
Justin Thomas

Phil with a strong endorsement of Zinger for 2016 captain

I think the setup just doesn't fit us well.

American golf is much more golf management and shooting against par. Most of those guys grow up playing match play and they are forced to learn to make birdies. I realize this is a pretty general statement but how much match play golf have you guys played?

The last couple of years I have played a competitive ryder cup style event and it is hard to force yourself to make birdies and "go for it".

Anyways, just my opinion.

It seems like your "go for it and make birdies" statement more geared toward the four ball format, which we actually did well in. It was alternate shot, where hitting fairways/greens and making pars are valuable, that we struggled most.

I agree with your sentiment in general though. That's what I was getting at in my third point above. We have some young guys on the team (Fowler, Spieth and Reed) who have been successful in different major match play events. It shouldn't be a huge surprise to see those guys succeed at the Ryder Cup. We need a few more of their generation to step up over the next two years.

This could be a good discussion.

The alternate shot is just so damn hard to get a rhythm. I'm not sure Watson played his cards well there. Bubba Watson has to sit that out. Nobody is going to be able to follow that guy from a partner stand point.

It'll be interesting to watch what effect the olympics in august will have on some older guys.

Maybe worth another thread, but is love to see a slight change. Add a day (Thursday). Add 3 players per team. Add a new game, either 2 man scramble or shat we called chapman (both players drive, hit other players ball, then play best out). Still play 12 on Sunday.

I've seen enough from Phil, Bubba, and Tiger. Might as well add them to your list of vets you don't want. I'm tired of them adding guys because of experience too. That formula obviously isn't working so hopefully the next captain realizes that.

This may get overplayed, but the Euros really want to win; America, I don't know. This is a huge deal overseas and until the US treats this like a major, I don't know if we'll catch them.

The alt shot kills us every year. Not an excuse but that's a format that Americans never play. It's very common in Europe from junior golf all the way to weekend warriors. It's just not something Americans do.

The whole format is about playing to win. I could see the argument for taking Keegan, Simpson, and Mahan, but it seemed so safe. When you compared the group of players who qualified for Europe versus guys who qualified for us, it was clear that on paper the Euros would have a much stronger squad than us. Which is why I really wished that Watson would've gone with a couple more rookies. Bottom line is that we just didn't have the talent to beat the Euros playing in a conventional way so we needed some unconventional picks from the captain.

Really disappointed in Webb Simpson, Bubba and Keegan on the final day. One, I dont consider Keegan and Webb elite US Talent. Yes they each have a major but nor sure either one of them will ever get another, especially Webb. Good golfers? Yes. Guys who scare me on the course? No.

As for Bubba, if his putter is off, which can be 50/50 he has no shot. Hes just not a clutch putter.

I really wish Watson could have waited until after the Fedex Cup to make Captains picks. I personally would have rather seen Hoerschel, Kirk and Ryan Palmer over there vs Webb, Keegan and Mahan.

Folks are going to be polarizing on Reed because of his attitude. He was our best player by far.....let that sink in. Forget about being a overweight, sporting the throat choker....whatever. He wanted to kick everyones azz he went up against and showed great spirit.....unlike guys like Furyk and Kuchar who just mope around the course.

Just my .02

Justin Rose just drained another putt somewhere......Geez

I just posted right after you, bagger, without reading what you had posted.

Spot on, agree 100%

I think we are actually all on the same page

Safe does not work in match play events.

Safe can work paired right In fourball. But that's only part of the format. Probably why we actually do well in that event.

I think the fans have a lot to do with the ryder cup. Eurpean fans treat it like the damn superbowl, while I would guess most Americans see it as just another golf tournament. Americans have 3 majors and countless of other tournaments too look forward to each year. European fans only have the Open and then the ryder cup every four years on their own turf. They also take ownership on being the birthplace of golf. They just take it WAY more serious, so the players do as well. Americans...not so much.

quote:

---

I've seen enough from Phil, Bubba, and Tiger. Might as well add them to your list of vets you don't want. I'm tired of them adding guys because of experience too. That formula obviously isn't working so hopefully the next captain realizes that.

This may get overplayed, but the Euros really want to win; America, I don't know. This is a huge deal overseas and until the US treats this like a major, I don't know if we'll catch them.

---

My biggest peeve in the pre-Cup coverage..

1. "Player X has a bad Ryder Cup record" - pretty much every American eligible has a bad Ryder Cup record after the ****ty run we've had in the last 15 some odd years.

2. "He's got Cup experience." - who gives AF if the experience is getting your ass whooped.

quote:

---

"He's got Cup experience." - who gives AF if the experience is getting your ass whooped.

---

Exactly. All the more reason I wanted more rookies. Need some fresh blood.

Look at the A&M game this weekend. Arkansas was full of players who were used to finding a way to lose while our team was full of players who had been down in the fourth quarter and come back several times I bet all those guys on the sideline just knew they could come back and win. LSU under Miles, Auburn last year, the sips back in the early 2000s having players who know how to win is a big deal and that street goes both ways. Back in the Sherman days we had teams who just knew that s##t was about to turn south at any minute and they played like it often.

Minimizing the carry over from the 2012 disaster and getting some people who aren't used to getting smacked around could've been a big deal. In 2016, I'd look at cup experience as a negative, not a positive. Find some guys who haven't gotten a lot of experience losing the Ryder Cup. The 2008 team had six rookies on it.

I agree with the Lama. All the old guys complained about being so exhausted from the FedEx cup playoffs anyway, so we should have just loaded up on rookies for the Ryder Cup. They get some valuable cup experience and a free Christmas sweater. Win-win.

The Ryder Cup is my favorite sporting event and I love the discussion on this thread. Just a couple remarks about some of the previous posts in the name of further discussion (not to be a contrarian):

quote:

---

Maybe worth another thread, but is love to see a slight change. Add a day (Thursday). Add 3 players per team. Add a new game, either 2 man scramble or shat we called chapman (both players drive, hit other players ball, then play best out). Still play 12 on Sunday.

---

I'm not sure if this will ever happen, but I think a change to the format would be welcome. Brandal Chamblee is always harping on the need to have all 12 players play each session. Traditionally, the lower ranked Americans have been better than the lower ranked Europeans, but the way the format exists today, Europe can hide its weaker players (guys like Stephen Gallacher, Peter Hanson, Pierre Fulke, Phillip Price, etc). It would make sense that having all 12 players each session would be an advantage to the Americans, but I guess you can never know for sure.

quote:

---

I've seen enough from Phil, Bubba, and Tiger. Might as well add them to your list of vets you don't want.

---

I wouldn't be too disappointed if Bubba never made a team again. I think he can be a good asset at home, but not on the road.

Regarding Tiger and Phil, there's no doubt they haven't had the best Ryder Cup records, but we still need them on the team if they're healthy. There was a time in the early-mid 2000s that the US PGA Tour was Tiger, Phil and everyone else. There wasn't much comradery. Tiger and Phil didn't like eachother much and didn't like anyone else outside of their close circles of friends. That lack of comradery spilled over to the 2002, 2004 and 2006 teams and we got our azzes kicked.

I think those times have changed. I think pairing Phil with younger guys like Kim, Fowler and Bradley the last few years who have passion for the event have really changed his tune. I also loved how he lashed out at Watson today. If nothing else, it shows that he cares.

Tiger is a slightly different case, but I will always maintain that the US Ryder Cup team is better with a healthy Tiger. Europe had way more fire-power and intimidation factor than we did this year. Tiger helps change that. He'll never be Mr. Congeniality on Tour, but he's much more well liked now than he was a few years ago. And while you can question his passion for the Ryder Cup itself, you can't question that when he tees it up, he goes all out for the W. I'll never forget how great he played at Medinah on Friday and Saturday afternoon. Stricker let him down BIG TIME.

I think the formula for Tiger is simple. Stop pairing him with the mundane old vets like Stricker and Kuchar and get him out there with Jordan Spieth, Patrick Reed or anyone else who can make clutch putts and help fire him up.

quote:

---

I'm tired of them adding guys because of experience too. That formula obviously isn't working so hopefully the next captain realizes that.

---

Agreed. We have alot of guys who are proven match play winners in the NCAA Tournament, Walker Cup and USGA tournaments that should start filtering out on Tour in the next year or two. Give me Justin Thomas, Russell Henley and Billy Horschel over three guys with experience.

quote:

---

The alt shot kills us every year. Not an excuse but that's a format that Americans never play. It's very common in Europe from junior golf all the way to weekend warriors. It's just not something Americans do.

---

I don't quite buy this. We won foursomes 5-3 at Medinah. We lost at Celtic Manor, but barely 3-4-1. We won 3-2-3 at Valhalla. Obviously we were taken to the woodshed this year though.

I didn't mind Watson's strategy in foursomes this year. He seemed to lean on Z Johnson, Furyk, Kuchar and Mahan. Theoretically, their games should be perfect for foursomes. They're very consistent, hit alot of fairways and greens, don't get too high or low, etc. But they combined to lose every foursomes match they play.

I think the problem with those guys is that they don't have killer mentalities. For as steady and consistent as they all play, they only have two majors between the four of them, with the most recent one occurring in 2007 via Zach Johnson's Masters win. All four players were notable for having trouble closing out tournaments down the stretch this year.

I honestly don't think the problem lies in our amateur or junior golf programs, but that's anyone's guess.

quote:

---

I really wish Watson could have waited until after the Fedex Cup to make Captains picks. I personally would have rather seen Hoerschel, Kirk and Ryan Palmer over there vs Webb, Keegan and Mahan.

---

Agreed. And I can almost guarantee that the 2016 captain will wait until the last minute to make his picks. Too embarrassing for the PGA this year.

quote:

---

Folks are going to be polarizing on Reed because of his attitude. He was our best player by far.....let that sink in. Forget about being a overweight, sporting the throat choker....whatever. He wanted to kick everyones azz he went up against and showed great spirit.....unlike guys like Furyk and Kuchar who just mope around the course.

---

Agreed. I thought everyone over-reacted to his comments after Doral. He kicked alot of azz in match play en route to back to back NCAA titles for Augusta State. I like him.

quote:

---

The whole format is about playing to win. I could see the argument for taking Keegan, Simpson, and Mahan, but it seemed so safe. When you compared the group of players who qualified for Europe versus guys who qualified for us, it was clear that on paper the Euros would have a much stronger squad than us. Which is why I really wished that Watson would've gone with a couple more rookies. Bottom line is that we just didn't have the talent to beat the Euros playing in a conventional way so we needed some unconventional picks from the captain.

---

Really good way to sum it up. I agree. We knew we were going to be underdogs regardless. Watson should have shaken it up.

quote:

---

This may get overplayed, but the Euros really want to win; America, I don't know. This is a huge deal overseas and until the US treats this like a major, I don't know if we'll catch them.

---

This has definitely been the case the past 20 years or so, but I think it's slowly changing. The younger guys seem to be very passionate about the event. Not surprisingly, those younger guys have had great success in the Walker Cup and NCAA Tournament and understand how great tournaments where you represent your school/country can be.

Also, like I alluded to before, there wasn't much comradery on Tour in the Tiger/Phil era. Now the players are better friends on/off the course... especially the younger guys. It pumps me up to see guys like Fowler/Spieth/Justin Thomas/Patrick Rodgers playing practice rounds together at the US Open and talking about how they can't wait to play on Ryder Cup teams together. I also loved how Fowler was first to congratulate Bubba when he won the Masters a few years ago. Fowler has potential to be the glue for this team moving forward.

Anyway, all I got for tonight...

Good comments Deluxe

I'd like to see us get rid of the two-year qualifying system for the team. I don't feel like it rewards guys who are playing good golf, which is what you need to win. If you go back and look at the points at the end of 2013, a lot of the guys on the list didn't make the team. Start that the beginning of the PGA Tour season leading up to the RC. We let guys rack up a lot of points at the beginning of the qualifying period (i.e. Phil's Open Championship victory) and then don't have the opportunity to capitalize on the guys playing really well near the end (Horschel, Palmer, etc).

Yeah, I see absolutely zero reason to make it a 2 year system. I think you go 6-8 with the current year, 2-3 based on performance from the Players in May through the end of the season and then the last 3-4 are captains picks that you don't make until the very end.

Agree on the points adjustment.

Just curious, does Europe use the same/similar points system?

The Euro's use two different point systems, but both are based only on performance over the most recent calendar year. There is a Euro Tour points list where they take the top 4 players (August to August), and then they go to World Golf Rankings for the next 5 (again, August to August), and then this time the captain picked 3. They bounce between their captain picking 2 or 3 players.

By comparison, the US system is largely current season based as well, but it does give weight to performance in the previous year's majors.

No wonder those foreigners got an advantage built in! We need to make ours a single year system as well.