Lets say you give you notice after being offered a raise and promotion at another company. Current company gives you slightly larger raise and matches position in title only and says responsibilities matching that title to follow in a year or so.

I have heard in the past under no circumstance accept a counter offer... oh wise B&I board, what do you think?

I didn't quit but I did accept a counter offer from my current company. It may not be a wise decision for everyone, but it's worked for me.

The problem with accepting a counter isn't necessarily the immediate fallout, but what happens several years down the road. Let's say, hypothetically, that the only reason you did want to leave your current company is for a raise in compensation (as a recruiter, I find this to be very rare, but I suppose it happens), and a different company offers you more money. Now, if your current company trumps the new company's offer and you accept, you have put yourself in a bad position when you are ready for an increase in responsibility. If you ever try to leave and take the next step in your career development, another company might not even be willing to seriously consider you because of how much money you are making now in relation to your job title/responsibilities. Example: a company is looking to hire a controller from a pool of assistant controllers. All the candidates make 100k per year, except one who makes 140k, and that's at the upper end of the company's budget. They will think the expensive candidate is perhaps over-qualified at best, or won't last with them if he has to take a pay cut at worst. Plus, accepting a counter just seems too analogous to breaking up with someone and then letting them talk you out of it. The problem didn't go away, and they aren't going to fully trust you anymore.

What about the concept of it becoming commonplace for folks to get a raise by shopping around? Based on observation alone it seems like folks don't stay at companies as long as they used to, and bounce around from company to company anytime they feel they deserve a raise. Or am I completely off base in this?

And some folks threaten to leave for the sole purpose of getting a raise. As someone mentioned earlier, they might give it to you, but they'll never trust you again. So if that's actually your goal, and you don't actually want to leave, then it'l lead to a poor work environment.

I had an employee do that before. She saw a vulnerable situation when one of my senior people retired and I was temporarily understaffed, and saw that as an opportunity to demand a huge raise (I had just given her one a few weeks prior) or go somewhere else. I literally laughed in her face at the 50% increase in pay she threw out, and walked away saying go for it. That evening she wrote me an email backtracking. I gave her a small raise anyway, but she was in my **** house until she eventually left when she got pregnant.

I think it's interesting that some think negotiating for a higher salary will cause the company not to trust you (story above notwithstanding because that is pretty ****ty). My company was happy that I told them I had higher offers so they could attempt to keep me. A friend of mine did not give them the same courtesy and they didn't like it.

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And some folks threaten to leave for the sole purpose of getting a raise. As someone mentioned earlier, they might give it to you, but they'll never trust you again. So if that's actually your goal, and you don't actually want to leave, then it'l lead to a poor work environment.

I had an employee do that before. She saw a vulnerable situation when one of my senior people retired and I was temporarily understaffed, and saw that as an opportunity to demand a huge raise (I had just given her one a few weeks prior) or go somewhere else. I literally laughed in her face at the 50% increase in pay she threw out, and walked away saying go for it. That evening she wrote me an email backtracking. I gave her a small raise anyway, but she was in my **** house until she eventually left when she got pregnant.

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Similar thing happened to me. My employee saw the vulnerability and took advantage. I gave 10%, but will reduce future bonuses (probably he will still come out ahead). The most important thing is now I am looking for a replacement strategy for him. I have already hired someone with a similar skillset, just in case. I am almost at a point where I am indifferent if he stays are go at this point. Loyalty has to go two ways.

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I think it shows how a company values its employees if they have to quit in order to be noticed or valued enough for a raise. Seems to me that is a culture of squeeze employees for everything they can as long as they can and then offer a raise when they quit. I was in a similar situation about a year ago and I do not regret passing the match and leaving.

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It seems all companies, year-to-year, give a simple 2-3% raise to employees most times, and expect them to stay happy. So, in some sense, to get any significant increase in pay you must start shopping yourself around. If I remember correctly, I think I've only been offered an above 3% raise twice, and that was with my current company. I was given over an 8% raise that first year. This past Christmas no one in the company was given raises due to the difficult time in O&G currently. Still, back in June this year my manager called me in and gave me a 2.5% raise. It wasn't much, but definitely appreciated, especially in these times.

So, in some cases companies will try to adequately compensate you in hopes of you sticking around. In other companies, they think they can simply get by by giving status quo raises year-to-year. That's how it was at the first couple companies I worked for, so I sought greener pastures to help increase my base salary and to better position myself long-term.

I've received two raises in my 4+ years at my current job as in-house counsel. The first was a year after passing the bar that resulted in a 24.2% increase and another recently of 21.4%. The second was because they are stacking management of the headquarters to my role and responsibilities and I had not received a raise in two years as their counsel and did not received a bonus last year when the rest of senior management did.

They know I've been unhappy here and finally found the best way to help alleviate some of my stress was to allow me to manage the office in which I am the only senior staff present everyday.

It all boils down to how much you're willing to risk and how receptive your boss is to listening to what you want and need for professional growth.

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I got an offer from another company and told my boss about it (we did have a very close relationship) and she brought it to HR/management. They matched it and a month later came back and offered me another promotion (large increase in responsibility) & from analyst level to manager level + some more money.

I may be a rare case but it can work out sometimes.

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I had a cousin try this and lost. Company said "let me pack your s*** for you" when he tried to leverage them with a job offer.

My company was being acquired by Oracle. A few weeks later I had an offer that I was going to take. My company had been slow to promote me, among a few other things.

I told them I didn't want to say, but a high up VP said he'd have an offer anyway. It was way better than I anticipated and I stayed with a promotion.

Nine months later, three after the acquisition closed, I realized I was right about Oracle and bailed.

Don't regret it though. Landed at a better place.

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I think it shows how a company values its employees if they have to quit in order to be noticed or valued enough for a raise. Seems to me that is a culture of squeeze employees for everything they can as long as they can and then offer a raise when they quit. I was in a similar situation about a year ago and I do not regret passing the match and leaving.

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It seems all companies, year-to-year, give a simple 2-3% raise to employees most times, and expect them to stay happy. So, in some sense, to get any significant increase in pay you must start shopping yourself around. If I remember correctly, I think I've only been offered an above 3% raise twice, and that was with my current company. I was given over an 8% raise that first year. This past Christmas no one in the company was given raises due to the difficult time in O&G currently. Still, back in June this year my manager called me in and gave me a 2.5% raise. It wasn't much, but definitely appreciated, especially in these times.

So, in some cases companies will try to adequately compensate you in hopes of you sticking around. In other companies, they think they can simply get by by giving status quo raises year-to-year. That's how it was at the first couple companies I worked for, so I sought greener pastures to help increase my base salary and to better position myself long-term.

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Not all. My company gives average employees 4.x% and good 6.x%. Also promotes frequently. Can have raise and promo in same year. These are also some of the highest salaries a company pays.

My company has a lot of internal churn because the rules on raises are so strict. We pay well in general, but it's difficult to get promotions and very difficult to get more than COLA without switching departments.

What line of work are you in?

I'm at one of those 3%/year companies.

I work for a software company that's consistently rated one of the best places to work.

Well it makes sense why they're highly rated! Always nice to hear of companies valuing their employees instead of finding excuses to crap upon them.

Note: I'm not saying my company is poor, but it's not great either. It's exactly what HR says it aims to be, right down the middle.

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The problem with accepting a counter isn't necessarily the immediate fallout, but what happens several years down the road. Let's say, hypothetically, that the only reason you did want to leave your current company is for a raise in compensation (as a recruiter, I find this to be very rare, but I suppose it happens), and a different company offers you more money. Now, if your current company trumps the new company's offer and you accept, you have put yourself in a bad position when you are ready for an increase in responsibility. If you ever try to leave and take the next step in your career development, another company might not even be willing to seriously consider you because of how much money you are making now in relation to your job title/responsibilities. Example: a company is looking to hire a controller from a pool of assistant controllers. All the candidates make 100k per year, except one who makes 140k, and that's at the upper end of the company's budget. They will think the expensive candidate is perhaps over-qualified at best, or won't last with them if he has to take a pay cut at worst. Plus, accepting a counter just seems too analogous to breaking up with someone and then letting them talk you out of it. The problem didn't go away, and they aren't going to fully trust you anymore.

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Why would a potential employer know how much you currently make?

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I got an offer from another company and told my boss about it (we did have a very close relationship) and she brought it to HR/management. They matched it and a month later came back and offered me another promotion (large increase in responsibility) & from analyst level to manager level + some more money.

I may be a rare case but it can work out sometimes.

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There's a subtle nuance here that I think makes a world of a difference. Going to your boss and saying "hey, I love it here, but I was approached with an offer in this range at this title. I believe this is indicative of my real value in the market and would like to get there in the near future at THIS company" is totally different than saying "Here is my two weeks notice, good luck figuring out my stuff once I'm gone". The former is a much better place to begin a conversation where you stay. But if you do the latter, then you 100% should leave because leadership KNOWS they can't trust you anymore.

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I agree 100% and that is a pretty good description of how it went down. It was also pretty easy to see that I was underpaid relative to the market.

On top of it all the company that offered me was a fracking company and I got the offer Thanksgiving 2014... Right when oil was plummeting.. When I first started interviewing oil was around $86 or so and I think $65 when I got the offer.... I didn't even want it at that point due to the uncertainty of the market but knew the chances of my company matching were pretty good.

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I got an offer from another company and told my boss about it (we did have a very close relationship) and she brought it to HR/management. They matched it and a month later came back and offered me another promotion (large increase in responsibility) & from analyst level to manager level + some more money.

I may be a rare case but it can work out sometimes.

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There's a subtle nuance here that I think makes a world of a difference. Going to your boss and saying "hey, I love it here, but I was approached with an offer in this range at this title. I believe this is indicative of my real value in the market and would like to get there in the near future at THIS company" is totally different than saying "Here is my two weeks notice, good luck figuring out my stuff once I'm gone". The former is a much better place to begin a conversation where you stay. But if you do the latter, then you 100% should leave because leadership KNOWS they can't trust you anymore.

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That's a good way of putting it. Essentially that's what I did and it worked out well for me.

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The problem with accepting a counter isn't necessarily the immediate fallout, but what happens several years down the road. Let's say, hypothetically, that the only reason you did want to leave your current company is for a raise in compensation (as a recruiter, I find this to be very rare, but I suppose it happens), and a different company offers you more money. Now, if your current company trumps the new company's offer and you accept, you have put yourself in a bad position when you are ready for an increase in responsibility. If you ever try to leave and take the next step in your career development, another company might not even be willing to seriously consider you because of how much money you are making now in relation to your job title/responsibilities. Example: a company is looking to hire a controller from a pool of assistant controllers. All the candidates make 100k per year, except one who makes 140k, and that's at the upper end of the company's budget. They will think the expensive candidate is perhaps over-qualified at best, or won't last with them if he has to take a pay cut at worst. Plus, accepting a counter just seems too analogous to breaking up with someone and then letting them talk you out of it. The problem didn't go away, and they aren't going to fully trust you anymore.

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Why would a potential employer know how much you currently make?

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Because at some point in salary negotiations, it's bound to come up. Even if the number is never stated, an employer will want to know if a candidate is taking a pay cut or not. If the candidate is unwilling to share this information it will cause suspicion, possibly stalling or halting negotiations.

But, like in your example, there are times when it would definitely be to your benefit not to share that information, correct?

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But, like in your example, there are times when it would definitely be to your benefit not to share that information, correct?

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I get the sense that more and more companies, at some point in the process, require comp verification. Or at least that's been my recent experience.

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But, like in your example, there are times when it would definitely be to your benefit not to share that information, correct?

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I have always been asked what I currently make. You really don't have the option of keeping that information private; which I really hate.

This happened a long time ago when dinosaurs were still around (early '90s) but I was offered a job in a different field. I had somewhat of an interest in the new job role, but when I told my boss about it, he immediately offered me more money and a different job role doing what I wanted. I stayed, but 6-7 months later, I was laid off. The layoff was voluntary and I actually came out ahead with several months severance and another job a week or two later. I think the principle is the same regarding the OP's question: if you are looking around, leave when you get an acceptable offer. If you want to stay with your company, go ask for a raise or a transfer. Never mix the two (i.e. don't accept counter offers).

In practice, the entire process benefitted me. I came out about 10 grand ahead, got to do what I liked for about 6 months, and the next job didn't matter much since I started law school soon thereafter. But a very odd set of circumstances lead to that and I would advise strongly: if you want to leave, leave. If you want to stay, don't try to leave. If that makes any sense.

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But, like in your example, there are times when it would definitely be to your benefit not to share that information, correct?

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I get the sense that more and more companies, at some point in the process, require comp verification. Or at least that's been my recent experience.

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Comp verification? Like, they are going to call your current employer and verify how much you are currently making? Only thing close to this I've ever experienced was my new employer buying out my unvested stock compensation. They needed verification as to the amount of unvested stock I had so they knew how much to compensate me, but they didn't ask **** about my old salary.

I've been asked for pay stubs/w2s to verify income.

How is that even legal? Was the offer contingent upon you proving you were paid a certain amount at your old position? Even further proof that not disclosing your old salary is a smart decision.