Take your pick......

3,506 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Bohica64
Bohica64
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Third basemen in their prime, who would you pick and why?

Brooks Robinson
Graig Nettles
Mike Schmidt

DallasAg 94
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quote:
Third basemen in their prime, who would you pick and why?

Brooks Robinson
Craig Nettles
Mike Schmidt
Adrian Beltre.

There are really only two in the conversation.

Brooks Robinson
Adrian Beltre

HTH.
bigcat22
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AG
Belts
Bohica64
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No doubt, but what I was wanting to know out of the three I listed. Beltre is a great choice.
Mozart Paintings
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AG
Of those three? BR
Buck Compton
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Chipper Jones? George Brett? Wade Boggs? All people I'd take over Beltre every day and twice on Sunday. I like Schmidt out of the group listed, but definitely feel that list is light. Eddie Mathews probably deserves consideration too.

And yes, I understand it wasn't a "best of all time" thread, but still
Bohica64
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I know there are tons of great third basemen so let me ask this:

Best defensive third baseman, who would you take? This can be current or all time.
Buck Compton
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BR will be a popular pick, but I still think I go with Schmidt. Maybe even Clete Boyer, although I never got to see him play, the stories I've heard are something else.
Bohica64
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Another great choice. My all time favorite is Brooks, no denying his 16 Gold Gloves.
Ag_07
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quote:
Best defensive third baseman, who would you take?

Ken Caminiti could play some ridiculous defense.

Bohica64
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Excellent choice, a lot of people forget about him. So sad he left us way too soon.
PacifistAg
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I'd go w/ Brooks, w/ a dead heat between Schmidt and Beltre.

Beltre is already #4 all-time among 3B with regards to WAR, and will likely finish his career behind only Schmidt. He will likely finish with around 3,200 career hits and would need to average 28 hr/yr (if he hit no more this season) for final 2 seasons to reach 500 hr. He'll also finish his career as the all-time RBI leader among 3B.

I think some don't really grasp just how phenomenal of a career Beltre has had, and none of the above even touches on his elite defensive abilities.
Squirrel Master
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The advanced defensive metrics say that Brooks Robinson was the best defensive 3B ever, and its not even really close. Like the gap is significant.

Having never seen him play, I'll accept that.
W
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let me help out this thread...

the 2 best third basemen post-World War II are Mike Schmidt and George Brett. Their numbers speak for themselves.

the next tier is Brooks Robinson, Wade Boggs, Chipper Jones, Eddie Mathews,

and then Beltre heads up the next tier. For a while he was very under-rated. Now he's over-rated. He's been a solid above average player for a long time. But in very few seasons was he a great player. These numbers are rather telling:

--- only a 4-time all-star in a 19-year career. That's quite underwhelming.
--- only finished in the top 5 in MVP voting twice in 19 years. That's even more underwhelming. And of course one of those seasons (2004) was his, um, er, dubious season in LA
--- only reached the 100 RBI mark 4 times
--- also just 772 career walks vs. 1,579 career strikeouts

----------------

now a quick comparison to Mike Schmidt:

--- 3-time NL MVP
--- 12-time all-star
--- 9 seasons of 100+ RBI
--- over 1,500 career walks
Bohica64
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Let's agree to disagree on this one. Hands down Brooks Robinson was the best defensive third baseman of all time. I admit, he was not the best offensive player but also no slouch. It is extremely difficult to argue with 16 consecutive gold gloves, I'm not aware of anyone even close to that past of present.
RodTidwell
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I am not sure how this happened but I actually agree with W.
PacifistAg
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AG

quote:
--- only a 4-time all-star in a 19-year career. That's quite underwhelming.
How much stock can you really put into AS games? You referenced his apparently "dubious" season when he was 25. In that season, he finished 2nd in the MVP vote, but failed to make the AS team.

He's just put together a consistently great career together while playing the 2nd most games at 3B in history. He reminds me of Eddie Murray in that regard. Murray never hit more than 33 HR in a season, and in 21 seasons, had 6 100-RBI seasons.
Bohica64
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I don't put much "stock" into All Star games since they are more of a popularity contest, fan votes. Not to say the fans don't recognize talent but most don't vote on pure talent.
Bobaloo
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Guys I've seen:

1) Schmidt
2 Beltre
3) Brett

Beltre is among the most underrated great players of my lifetime.
Buck Compton
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Really easy to see which fans are Rangers fans on this thread.

Beltre is a great player, but he isn't an elite superstar of the likes of Schmidt. I think if he has two more seasons of very solid play ", he will be in the next group with Boggs, etc. But he's not #2.
PacifistAg
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quote:
Really easy to see which fans are Rangers fans on this thread.
Wait! Are you telling me that fans of a particular team have a tendency to view their players in a more favorable light than other fanbases? Shocking I tell you! In all seriousness though, Beltre will likely end up with 3,200-3,300 career hits, will get very close to 500 HR, will have 2nd highest WAR of any 3B ever, will have most RBI of any 3B ever, and will likely end up with most games ever played at 3B. The guy is a historically elite 3B. I guess it's really easy to see which fans are Astros fans on this thread.

But, what you said does remind me of how Astros fans talk about Bagwell. It's okay. It's natural to view your team's players more favorably.
PacifistAg
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quote:
Beltre is among the most underrated great players of my lifetime.
Agree. I think it's because outside his last year in LA, he's never had the gaudy stats that people like so much. He reminds me of Eddie Murray in that regard. He's just plugged away and had a career that's made him a surefire lock for the HOF. Heck, he's coming up on first ballot lock status.
Buck Compton
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This actually reminds me more of the Biggio conversation. Longevity is what feeds the stats rather than being in the conversation of best of all time at a position. I love Biggio and Beltre will join him in the hall.

Top 10 third baseman all time. Definitely elite when looking at history, but not in the conversation for the top spot or 1b) by any means. Being the greatest takes a little extra something, and Beltre doesn't quite have it.
Buck Compton
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Pump the brakes, he's not near a first ballot lock yet.
PacifistAg
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quote:
Top 10 third baseman all time. Definitely elite when looking at history, but not in the conversation for the top spot or 1b) by any means. Being the greatest takes a little extra something, and Beltre doesn't quite have it.
I don't think most baseball people put him on the level of Brooks Robinson or even Mike Schmidt. He's a top-5 3B all time though.
PacifistAg
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quote:
Pump the brakes, he's not near a first ballot lock yet.
Assuming even mediocre seasons in '17 and '18, he'll end up with roughly 3,200 hits, 500 HR, and more RBI than any 3B in history. That's a first ballot lock. If he retired today, he would have to wait a year. Maybe two. But assuming just decent seasons after this, he's a first ballot lock.

You may disagree with the metrics that are typically used in voting, but as long as a player doesn't have the steroid cloud hanging over him, which Beltre does not, then I don't care who you are. Those numbers will get anyone in on the first ballot. The fact that Beltre is one of the most respected and likeable players in the game only helps his cause.
PatriotAg02
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quote:
Third basemen in their prime, who would you pick and why?

Brooks Robinson
Craig Nettles
Mike Schmidt




GRAIG Nettles.
DallasAg 94
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quote:
let me help out this thread...

the 2 best third basemen post-World War II are Mike Schmidt and George Brett. Their numbers speak for themselves.

Hate to break it to you, but George Brett was as much a 1B and DH as he was a 3B.

George Brett didn't play much 3B, after 33.
- 1685 GP, 6488 AB, 198 HR, .315 @ 3B,
- 504 GP, 2184 AB, 51 HR, .273 @ DH
- 460 GP, 1726 AB, 61 HR, .306 @ 1B


quote:
and then Beltre heads up the next tier. For a while he was very under-rated. Now he's over-rated. He's been a solid above average player for a long time. But in very few seasons was he a great player. These numbers are rather telling:

--- only a 4-time all-star in a 19-year career. That's quite underwhelming.
--- only finished in the top 5 in MVP voting twice in 19 years. That's even more underwhelming. And of course one of those seasons (2004) was his, um, er, dubious season in LA
--- only reached the 100 RBI mark 4 times
--- also just 772 career walks vs. 1,579 career strikeouts
----------------
now a quick comparison to Mike Schmidt:

--- 3-time NL MVP
--- 12-time all-star
--- 9 seasons of 100+ RBI
--- over 1,500 career walks

All-Star? Really? The Beauty contest that is now decided by popularity of fans with each team getting spot?!

Best seasons:
Boggs (29-1987): 147 GP, .363, 24 HR, .461 OBP, 1.049 OPS
Beltre (25-2004): 156 GP, .334, 48 HR, .388 OBP, 1.017 OPS, 7 SB
Jones (27-1999): 157 GP, .319, 45 HR, .441 OBP, 1.047 OPS, 25 SB
Schmidt (30-1980): 150 GP, .286, 48 HR, .380 OBP, 1.004 OPS, 12 SB


How about these?!
GP as 3B
Beltre: 2588 GP, .285 BA, 2826 H, 569 Doubles, 418 HRs, 117 SB, .338 OBP, .476 SLG, .814 OPS
Schmidt: 2190 GP, .266 BA, 2059 H, 377 Doubles, 509 HRs, 174 SB, .380 OBP, .526 SLG, .906 OPS

RBIs are as much a reflection of opportunity as anything else.

I don't know the exact difference in Walks, but since Beltre has 800 more Hits, with almost 200 of those being Doubles, it is hard to argue Schmidt was better because he had more Walks.

Schmidt played all of his games in the NL, while Beltre played in both the AL and NL. That affects a players familiarity\popularity with writers, fans, etc.

Beltre may not have won more MVPs, but when his career is over, he'll be Top 2-3 in almost every category for players with GP at 3B.

He will be a 1st Ballot HoF.
DallasAg 94
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quote:
Beltre heads up the next tier. ... These numbers are rather telling:

--- only finished in the top 5 in MVP voting twice in 19 years. That's even more underwhelming. And of course one of those seasons (2004) was his, um, er, dubious season in LA
----------------
now a quick comparison to Mike Schmidt:

--- 3-time NL MVP
And regarding MVP.

His 2nd place finish in 2004 was behind Bonds.

His 3rd place finish in 2012 was behind Miguel Cabrera and Mike Trout.

So many of the modern era MVPs are tainted by players with positive tests, that it has rendered it meaningless.

A-Rod was allowed to continue to play and win the MVP even though he had tested positive for PEDs.

Today, players like Chris Davis have exceptions to use Adderral, which is deemed a banned substance. Players have realized it is worth the risk to take PEDs in order to get $$$$, that even if they test positive, they still get paid.
jja79
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I was born in the 50's so I saw all these guys.

Michael Jack Schmidt was the most feared hitter of his era. From 74-86 he lead the NL in HR 8 times, was MVP 3 times and won 10 Gold Gloves. He was cat quick at 3rd. He hit the CF speaker at the Astrodome. Only player to do it. George Brett was picked one spot ahead of Schmidt in the 71 draft.

Brooks Robinson was the best defensive 3B I ever saw.

Nettles was really good but not in the conversation with Schmidt.

Not sure why Clete Boyer was brought up. He was just a guy.
Know Your Enemy
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Michael Jack Schmidt
Broncos
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Alex Bregman.
corleoneAg99
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Brooks.

Not close.
dcrewint
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Machado is pretty flashy with the leather/arm
94chem
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quote:
Craig Nettles
OP serious? Give me Buddy Bell 8 days a week over Nettles.
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