quote:

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In year 10 this league has failed to develop any real new rivalries and on a national stage it's my opinion that the league is weaker than the SEC, Pac-10, Big-10.

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Very true, the closest "new" rivalries has been Texas and Nebraska ... basically going back to the formation of the new league, and in a minor sense us and Kansas St., which has to do with them being upset that we robbed them from a title and National Championship shot.

And, over the past four years we have lost the North as Colorado, Nebraska, and Kansas St. faded into being average and worse. You can sell this league when Nebraska is a top 10 team ... but a 7-5 Nebraska brings nothing but yawns.

We need two powers in the north to go with OU and Texas to be marketable nationwide. That adds value to the conference ... without it, we're not much better than the old SWC and without any history.


"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

Jackass? Ok, I can see how I came off as such, my first post was fairly rude. But you're assessement that all SEC school are academically "zip, nada, zeros" astounds me. Who is the ultimate authority on where schools rank? If it's the US News & World Report ratings then take a look at the list for yourself. A&M is ranked below two (Vandy and Florida) of them and tied with another (UGA). According to that list the 2 conferences are fairly even. One of the main reasons I took offense to your post is because I've lived in Tennessee for 6 years now and have become good friends with many products of SEC schools and amazingly enough they have "have three digits in their IQs and two eyes facing forward". But of course, I'm the jackass.

The Big 12 has developed a new rivaly- Texas vs Nebraska. There just haven't been any involving us because we have been such an overall bad athletics school for so long that everyone who matters kicks our butt generally.

Evryone blames the north for the Big 12's troubles, but A&m has caused more than it's fair share of hurt to the conference. We were suppoed to be a top 25 team year in an year our, with top 10 finsihes sprinked in. You put that with OU, tu, Neb, and Cu, you have a pretty good football confernece. But our suckage has hurt because people don't care to see us or play us since we have not been very good.

Moving to the SEC would be great for tailgating, but horrific for the program. Ever wonder why SEC tailgating is so good? Because for half the teams, that is the only reason to go to the games.

And please never ever say we have serious cultural links to the SEC...because last time I checked, we did not have any inbred hicks who failed to finish high school as fans. Tennesse, Alamaba, Auburn, Kentucky, Georgia and Arkansas all do.

quote:

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Evryone blames the north for the Big 12's troubles, but A&m has caused more than it's fair share of hurt to the conference. We were suppoed to be a top 25 team year in an year our, with top 10 finsihes sprinked in. You put that with OU, tu, Neb, and Cu, you have a pretty good football confernece. But our suckage has hurt because people don't care to see us or play us since we have not been very good.

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No, we haven't helped matters any, but, the leagues reputation falling has more to do with Nebraska and the demise of the north than us. No one was griping in 2000 about the league, even though we were only average, because the league put 5 or so teams in the polls each week with three teams finishing in the AP final poll (OU #1, Nebraska #8, Kansas St. #9). In 2001 we continued to slide yet the league was coinsidered strong was we had 4 teams finish the year in the AP top 10 (Texas #5, OU #6, Nebraska #8, Colorado #9), and even 2002, when the bottom fell out for RC, the league was considered strong as 3 teams finished in the AP top ten (OU #5, Texas#6, Kansas St.#7). It was after this as we only had 1 team in the top 10 in 2003, 2 in 2004, 1 in 2005, and none in the final AP poll in 2006. The missing link was the Nebraska's and Kansas St.'s or Colorado's ... the north powers.


"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

Nobody was griping in 2005 about the league when Texas won the national championship and we had something like 5 ranked teams from the Big 12 South.

cypress -

2005 was fairly weak, esp looking at OOC records and such ... we finihsed with 4 ranked teams in the AP; Texas #1, Tech #20, Oklahoma #22, Nebraska #24. Better than 2004 and 2006, but not to what the league was a few years before.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." The words of Jesus; John 16:33

As a Longhorn I have no problem with A&M going to the SEC as I would enjoy you losing big time.

A&M + SEC = consistent dogstomping

*See Cotton Bowl for reminder if still doubtful*

you play to the level of competition. SEC play would be an adjustment but I'd love to see it.

A&M and Arkansas should just swap. We then play the 'sips every year on Thanksgiving as an OOC game.

Problem solved.

I would much rather be in the SEC. I hate the Big XII. I hate all of these bland midwesterners with their dull colorless uninspiring acccents and their boring towns and their characterless erector set high school stadiums and their unimaginative high school fight songs and pedestrian high school cheers and their flat unpopulated nowhere states that screw any chance we have of getting a better tv deal and bowl tie-ins.

Wow TGCGT. You couldn't have expressed my sentiments about the Big 12 any more precisely. That is EXACTLY how I feel about this league.

Yeah, we're better off than we were in the SWC. But the "marriage" of the Big 8 schools and Texas schools has never made any sense to me.

Probably the reason I can never get excited about cheering for other schools because it's "in the best interest of the Big 12". I just don't CARE about those schools one way or the other.

TGGCT is right on the money

There's something about Texas A&M and any version of the word 'South' that just go together. Kind of like t.u. and San Francisco, or you know what I mean.

But I don't think a serious high-level discussion about it is in our near future.

Thanks, nice to know others feel the same way I do about it.

Just to clarify -- I don’t “hate" the people of the plains -- I just hate being in the same conference with them. They are good people by and large but my gosh they must be the most boring people on the face of the Earth.

I can agree with the cultural similarities between A&M and some of the SEC.

A&M and texas will never be split up. We either go as a pair or nothing.

I couldn't imagine playing in the SEC. Lets see.

WE currently have as tough games NU (marginal), texas, OU, Tech (uggggh, but should be marginal).

We get to swap texas for LSU, OU for FLA, NU for Tenn, Tech for GA. We then get Ark, Auburn, Alabama.

We would fall so far into oblivion playing in that conference. We would be happy with 3 loss years.

In the Big XII, you are set up for MNC games. Look at texas, OU, NU since the big XII started.

From texas point of view, they have to beat OU and they are favored in the rest. OU has to beat texas and favored in the rest. We have to beat OU, texas and should be favored in the rest.

Play in the SEC and we would be underdogs more than favorites. We need OSU, baylor, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, Colorado as easy wins.

Trade Arkansas for CU. That would work for me.

That's one thing about the SEC though. Some of the SEC schools don't have clear natural rivals to focus on. Ark and LSU are both good examples. You can't really name either one's top rival. Even Georgia, who is their top rival? Is it Florida or Georgia Tech?

The only SEC rivalries that are really clear in my mind are Bama-Auburn, & Ole Miss-MSU. The rest are a little fuzzy to me.

I suppose you could say the same in the Big 12 though. Which are the clearly biggest rivals. Aggies would definitely say tu, but horns might say OU. Jayhawks would be split between KState and Mizzou while Wildcats would definitely say KU. Cowboys would say OU but Sooners would say tu. The only real clear rivalry is Baylor-tech.

TGCGT,

Awesome post. Way to put more of my thoughts into words!!

arkansas and A&M are where they should be.

move baylor for tcu
maybe move ISU for utah or new mexico

leave colorado because they have been a good team, just not lately

SMU alum.. but grew up in SEC country in an Ole Miss family so wanted to chime in..

The cool thing about SEC games is that, despite the level of competition, every week the atmosphere feels like a TX/OU or A&M/Texas game if it's a division game at most schools. The reason that the pageantry and tradition in the SEC is so unparalleled in other conferences is not because of the quality of teams (though its hardly ever not one of the top 2 or 3 conferences), b/c that can fluctuate, but b/c the teams have played each other for 9 (or more in some cases) decades. You just can't create that, or join it and expect instant rivalries. That's the big problem with the Big XII. That's why Arkansas has a hard time fitting in. South Carolina hasn't as much b/c geographically they make more sense and are close to UT and UGA and UF.

Ole Miss sucks. My whole fam went there, I love the Rebs. But we suuuuuuck. But, despite being an hour away from Memphis, 2 hours away from Jackson, and having 3 hotels in a reasonable distance and a student body of 10,000 undergrads -- we average 56,000 fans per game. Look at Vandy. They don't average much below their capacity. And with Vandy, it's not like they're getting blown out 45-0 in games. Usually Vandy goes 3-8 but is about 21 points away from having a winning season. The cool thing about the SEC is that upsets happen all the time... and that sucks b/c it's rare a team comes out of the conference with 2 losses. But, SEC teams are undefeated in national title games since the inception of the BCS. And also have the best BCS record of any other conferences.

I think A&M has awesome tradition and awesome fans. I just don't see it in the current scenario of football as a fit right now. The SEC has a monopoly on CBS outside of the Army/Navy game. They have a presence everywhere. I do agree, though, that A&M fans deserve a conference with the same type of rich tradition and fanfare that they take pride in. But I think if the SWC had added a few teams (OU, OSU, Nebraska, Colorado), and held on to its core, it really would've preserved tradition -- and kept its BCS status.

Oh, and here's the rivalries since someone asked what there was besides the Iron Bowl...

SEC's Main Football Rivalries:
Auburn-Alabama
Auburn-Georgia
Alabama-Tennessee
Tennessee-Florida
Georgia-Florida
LSU-Ole Miss

Smaller Rivalries:
Auburn-Ole Miss (Tubberville)
LSU-Arkansas
South Carolina-Florida (Spurrier)
Tennessee-Kentucky
South Carolina-Georgia
Ole Miss-Mississippi State
Tennessee-Vanderbilt

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but b/c the teams have played each other for 9 (or more in some cases) decades. You just can't create that, or join it and expect instant rivalries. That's the big problem with the Big XII. That's why Arkansas has a hard time fitting in. South Carolina hasn't as much b/c geographically they make more sense and are close to UT and UGA and UF.

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ARKANSAS
DATE SITE A&M OPP
1903 College Station W 6 0
1910 Fayetteville, Ark. L 0 5
1912 Dallas, Texas W 27 0
Oct. 15, 1927 College Station W 40 6
Oct. 27, 1928 Fayetteville, Ark. L 12 27
Oct. 26, 1929 College Station L 13 14
Oct. 25, 1930 Little Rock, Ark. L 0 13
Nov. 3, 1934 College Station T 7 7
Nov. 2, 1935 Little Rock, Ark. L 7 14
Oct. 31, 1936 College Station L 0 18
Oct. 30, 1937 Fayetteville, Ark. L 13 26
Oct. 29, 1938 College Station W 13 7
Nov. 4, 1939 Fayetteville, Ark. W 27 0
Nov. 2, 1940 College Station W 17 0
Nov. 1, 1941 Little Rock, Ark. W 7 0
Oct. 31, 1942 College Station W 41 0
Oct. 30, 1943 Fayetteville, Ark. W 13 0
Nov. 4, 1944 College Station L 6 7
Nov. 3, 1945 Fayetteville, Ark. W 34 0
Nov. 2, 1946 College Station L 0 7
Nov. 1, 1947 Fayetteville, Ark. T 21 21
Oct. 30, 1948 College Station L 6 28
Oct. 29, 1949 Fayetteville, Ark. L 6 27
Nov. 4, 1950 College Station W 42 13
Nov. 3, 1951 Fayetteville, Ark. L 21 33
Nov. 1, 1952 College Station W 31 12
Oct. 31, 1953 Little Rock, Ark. L 14 41
Oct. 30, 1954 College Station L 7 14
Oct. 29, 1955 Fayetteville, Ark. T 7 7
Nov. 3, 1956 College Station W 27 0
Nov. 2, 1957 Fayetteville, Ark. W 7 6
Nov. 1, 1958 College Station L 8 21
Oct. 31, 1959 Fayetteville, Ark. L 7 12
Oct. 29, 1960 College Station L 3 7
Nov. 4, 1961 Fayetteville, Ark. L 8 15
Nov. 3, 1962 College Station L 7 17
Nov. 2, 1963 Little Rock, Ark. L 7 21
Oct. 31, 1964 College Station L 0 17
Oct. 30, 1965 Little Rock, Ark. L 0 31
Oct. 29, 1966 College Station L 0 34
Nov. 4, 1967 College Station W 33 21
Nov. 2, 1968 College Station L 22 25
Nov. 1, 1969 Fayetteville, Ark. L 13 35
Oct. 31, 1970 College Station L 6 45
Oct. 30, 1971 Little Rock, Ark. W 17 9
Nov. 4, 1972 College Station W 10 7
Nov. 3, 1973 Fayetteville, Ark. L 10 14
Nov. 2, 1974 College Station W 20 10
Dec. 6, 1975 Little Rock, Ark. L 6 31
Nov. 13, 1976 Little Rock, Ark. W 31 10
Nov. 12, 1977 College Station L 20 26
Nov. 18, 1978 Little Rock, Ark. L 7 26
Nov. 17, 1979 College Station L 10 22
Nov. 15, 1980 Fayetteville, Ark. L 24 27
Nov. 14, 1981 College Station L 7 10
Nov. 13, 1982 Little Rock, Ark. L 0 35
Nov. 12, 1983 College Station W 36 23
Nov. 17, 1984 Fayetteville, Ark. L 0 28
Nov. 16, 1985 College Station W 10 6
Nov. 15, 1986 Fayetteville, Ark. L 10 14
Nov. 14, 1987 College Station W 14 0
Nov. 12, 1988 Fayetteville, Ark. L 20 25
Nov. 24, 1989 College Station L 22 23
Nov. 17, 1990 Fayetteville, Ark. W 20 16
Nov. 16, 1991 College Station W 13 3
(24-38-3) 893 1019
http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports/football/history/opp/arkansas.html

LSU
DATE SITE RESULT A&M OPP
1899 College Station W 52 0
1906 College Station W 22 12
1907 College Station W 11 5
1908 College Station L 0 26
1913 College Station T 7 7
1914 Dallas, Texas W 63 9
Oct. 14, 1916 Galveston, Texas L 0 13
Oct. 27, 1917 Beaumont, Texas W 27 0
Oct. 16, 1920 College Station T 0 0
Oct. 15, 1921 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 6
Oct. 20, 1922 Baton Rouge, La. W 46 0
Oct. 20, 1923 Baton Rouge, La. W 28 0
Sept. 26, 1942 Baton Rouge, La. L 7 16
Oct. 9, 1943 Baton Rouge, La. W 28 13
Jan. 1, 1944 Miami, Fla. (Orange Bowl) L 14 19
Oct. 14, 1944 Baton Rouge, La. W 7 0
Oct. 13, 1945 College Station L 12 31
Oct. 12, 1946 Baton Rouge, La. L 9 33
Oct. 11, 1947 Baton Rouge, La. L 13 19
Oct. 9, 1948 Baton Rouge, La. L 13 14
Oct. 8, 1949 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 34
Sept. 24, 1955 Dallas, Texas W 28 0
Sept. 29, 1956 Baton Rouge, La. W 9 6
Sept. 17, 1960 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 9
Sept. 30, 1961 Baton Rouge, La. L 7 16
Sept. 17, 1962 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 21
Sept. 21, 1963 Baton Rouge, La. L 6 14
Sept. 19, 1964 Baton Rouge, La. L 6 9
Sept. 18, 1965 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 10
Oct. 8, 1966 Baton Rouge, La. T 7 7
Sept. 30, 1967 Baton Rouge, La. L 6 17
Sept. 21, 1968 Baton Rouge, La. L 12 13
Sept. 20, 1969 Baton Rouge, La. L 6 35
Sept. 19, 1970 Baton Rouge, La. W 20 18
Sept. 18, 1971 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 37
Sept. 23, 1972 Baton Rouge, La. L 17 42
Sept. 22, 1973 Baton Rouge, La. L 23 28
Sept. 21, 1974 Baton Rouge, La. W 21 14
Sept. 20, 1975 Baton Rouge, La. W 39 8
Sept. 13, 1986 Baton Rouge, La. L 17 35
Sept. 2, 1987 College Station L 3 17
Sept. 3, 1988 Baton Rouge, La. L 0 27
Sept. 2, 1989 College Station W 28 16
Sept. 29, 1990 Baton Rouge, La. L 8 17
Sept. 14, 1991 College Station W 45 7
Sept. 5, 1992 Baton Rouge, La. W 31 22
Sept. 4, 1993 College Station W 24 0
Sept. 3, 1994 Baton Rouge, La. W 18 13
Sept. 2, 1995 College Station W 33 17
(20-26-3) 773 732
http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports/football/history/opp/lsu.html

I'm not saying at all that I don't greatly respect or appreciate A&M's traditions. But I think just b/c A&M has a lot of tradition and pageantry, that doesn't necessarily make it a natural fit for the SEC right now.

You have a great history with Arkansas, but you were conference mates. Arkansas has had a lot of trouble developing rivalries.. and the one they have with LSU.. is basically forced as they had to create a trophy (Astros/Rangers anyone?).

Also, if A&M were to join, the SEC would either have to cast away to east teams (won't happen, USC fits in much better than Arkie) or you'd swap with Arkansas. Most people's complaints with Arkansas are that they are far away from the rest of the schools, expanding to Texas would be even worse. If Arkansas defected, I would see the SEC looking more towards a Georgia Tech or Clemson, and pushing Vandy or UT over to the west. It would make the geography even more tightly compact, and with Georgia Tech it would bring back an earlier member.

The problem also with the Big XII's lack of tradition is there's no permanent cross-division match ups when there should be. The SEC preserves the UT/Bama and Auburn/UGA games. Why the Big XII did away with Nebraska/OU is beyond me... If the Big XII would do this, I don't think you'd have the problem with rivalries and tradition:

Texas
Texas A&M
Texas Tech
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Colorado
Colorado State
Nebraska
Arkansas
Baylor
TCU
SMU/Rice/UH

Texas, OU, Nebraska, Colorado, A&M, Arkansas all have the potential to be Top-20 programs year in and year out. TCU, Oklahoma State, and Tech would sprinkle in some Top 25 in certain years. You also maintain a lot of the SWC rivalries, and you keep some of the important Big 8 ones. CU-CSU I think is more entertaining to watch than CU/KU but that's just me. Also, while beating an SMU/Rice/UH might not seem enticing, nationally it doesn't look any worse than a KU or Iowa State, and at least you'd be preserving some old SWC rivalries and not spending as much traveling $$, as well as playing games in Houston or Dallas which are fertile recruiting grounds.

But I'm sure K-State, Mizzou, and KU fans think this is a horrible idea--- b/c they're riding on y'alls coattails right now.

Part of the problem is you've taken two "regions" and tried forcing them to have something in common and care about each other.

In the SEC you have a lot of televisions across the conference tuning in to games conference wide. People in Tennessee are going to be VERY interested in an Auburn/UGA game.

How many people really get that excited watching Nebraska vs KSU? I'm as big of a football fan as there comes but maybe it's a little A.D.D but I get bored half-way into that game and would rather watch Tennessee-LSU, Auburn-Florida, or basically any other SEC matchup.

SEC football is boring as hell to watch. Plain jane offenses and 4-3 defenses for the entire conferecne except for Florida.

The reason why Kansas and Missouri will always be safe is because what they bring in basketball. Kansas State has hsitorically struggled, but I think they are committed to improving their football and basketball programs to at least being average year in year out.

The teams that are in trouble are Iowa State and Colorado. They have fan support and money issues that could sink them from a competitive standpoint. If either were to leave or be thrown out, Arkansas would be the natural choice to invite.

A&M belongs in the south > SEC. Plus the SEC has a full complement of baseball teams. Ole Miss & Vandy are no worse than Iowa State or Baylor. Arkansas is a better fit for the Big 12 because of its proximity to OSU, OU, Mizzou, Kansas & Kansas State. They would develope much better rivalries than we have.



[This message has been edited by Skull Session (edited 4/27/2007 3:49a).]

If Arkansas were to go to the XII and A&M to the SEC, the rivalry issue would be a moot point. A&M/LSU is an old bitter rivalry. A&M would still play tu as an OOC game (see UF/FSU). Arkansas would get to play tu and tech again and develop a rivalry with OU and OSU.

Does anyone not see a rivalry developoing between A&M and 'Bama?

quote:

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Does anyone not see a rivalry developoing between A&M and 'Bama?

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That would be an instant rivalry because the ties between the two schools.

The only problem with A&M joining the SEC and it's the same problem that Arkansas has is that you'd have a set East opponent you'd face every year. The point was to preserve natural rivalries, but like Arkansas you have no natural rivals among Vanderbilt, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, or Tennessee. I think Arkansas'a East divisional rival is South Carolina, by default. If the two schools swapped, it would likely be the same for you.

-Baylor -ISU
+Arkansas +TCU

The SEC games I have been the best all around(besides ours); we should leave the Big12.

A&M to the SEC...


Arkansas to the Big 12...


Now we are all happy...Bye

This makes no sense! You are all talking about rivalries. Who would our rivals in the SEC be? Ark would have to leave to go to the Big 12 so that leaves LSU. They are the only team from the SEC that we have consistently played over the years. I am sure in our current state, they would not mind reviving the rivalry. Other than LSU, who would we be rivals with?? Nobody!

At least we have common ground with schools like OSU and KSU, ag schools like we used to be.
OU is another good example. Texas / Oklahoma anything has always been a rivalry and we represent the State of Texas when we play OU and OSU not just TAMU. Basketball is good in the BIG 12. Baseball is also very competitive in the Big 12. You have to look outside of just Football when you talk about switching conferences. Frankly the only way in the past 10 years we have been bowl eligible is because we do have some weak team in the Big 12. I think if we were ever to move to the SEC it would be a long long time before we ever got to the SEC championship game and even longer before we ever got to a BCS game. I think most years we would be estatic to win 6 or 7 games and just be bowl eligible.

I'm a Miss. St. alum and grew up in TX. Actually grew up an Aggie as my entire family went to TAMU. I would love to have A&M in our conference. We'd add y'all to the SEC West and maybe move Auburn to the SEC East, and maybe drop Vandy, or Kentucky (they should be in the Big East at least for Basketball purposes).

I think that would do wonders for A&M's recruiting in state. I guarantee you a kid would rather play an SEC slate and get to stay in state as opposed to playing a Big 12 slate.

And from our perspective, it would help us too with getting some TX kids to come our way. Though Arkansas and LSU already do a good job of landing TX kids.

quote:

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I'm a Miss. St. alum and grew up in TX. Actually grew up an Aggie as my entire family went to TAMU. I would love to have A&M in our conference. We'd add y'all to the SEC West and maybe move Auburn to the SEC East, and maybe drop Vandy, or Kentucky (they should be in the Big East at least for Basketball purposes).

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The SEC would never boot those two schools. If any schools were to be booted, they'd be among South Carolina or Arkansas. Possibly Mississippi State.

Scoreboard, Bama...Basketball and Football