You can fairly claim that Jimbo needs more time. That we might win in 4 years when his players are redshirt juniors. That Kevin Sumlin is to blame for this team.

It logically follows if Kevin Sumlin is responsible for this team then Jimbo is for Florida State's current under .500 team.

Kevin Sumlin and Willie Taggart can't be blamed for all of it.

Your logic. It doesn't add up

Yes it does

The problem is and always has been A&M. We're the common denominator.

One of these teams, while frustrating, is on track for the 7 wins people guessed they'd have.

The two others (Arizona and FSU) are radically underperforming. Maybe you can blame 2 of the 3

Bayside Tiger Ag said:

---

Your logic. It doesn't add up

---

You don't do logic then.

huh? Florida State about to have their worst season in over a decade

One team took a nose dive and the other is staying on par while playing harder schedule, setting up a pro-style offense, and has one of the top recruiting class in nation.

Rendered Fat said:

---

The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

---

And these same "bunch of scrubs" won at least 7 games every year

Rendered Fat said:

---

The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

---

YAH!! Increase their 40 times, their verticals, the overall IQ, add 15 pounds and coach all the bad habits that have been ingrained for years in 9 months!!! It's not that hard

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

---

YAH!! Increase their 40 times, their verticals, the overall IQ, add 15 pounds and coach all the bad habits that have been ingrained for years in 9 months!!! It's not that hard

---

Again, it's not like this team was 3-9 last year.

This was and is a throwaway season.

The inherent risk and often failure of the RPO lies with the QB's decision-making ability. The throw on 3rd down in the 4Q by Mond is a result of that poor decision-making.

Jimbo and the coaching staff have the added insight of seeing these guys in practice and during workouts, something we don't get to see. Jimbo assuredly had his reasons to keep Mond in based on information he knows, but Mond mightily struggled with his decision-making yesterday.

I would guess if Jimbo knew how much Mond would struggle coming out of the half, we would have seen plays with Starkel.

This is a similar thinking fallacy to when Sumlin played Allen against Ole Miss when everyone swore Allen was hurt. The coaching staff is always privy to more information than any one of us is.

Hi, Im Brett said:

---

huh? Florida State about to have their worst season in over a decade

---

And would we be blaming Jimbo or Taggart for that?

I would venture to guess that a lot of people on here would be blaming Jimbo cause "these are his players"

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Or if they finished with less than 7 wins during his tenure

Talent is not the question. It's the attitude engrained in these kids. Jimbo isn't going to cure a fragile mindset in one year. Enough of these guys are talented but soft. Some of them don't even care at this point.

Think about it. Sumlins recruiting philosophy was to promise kids that they would play right away. Decently ranked guys.

Enough on the roster wanted to be handed their spot and we wonder why they don't fight when challenged.

Jameis had a lot to do with Jimbo's success at FSU. Compare seasons with and without him on the roster. Jimbo is still a fine coach regardless.

As for us, there are lots of holes in our lineup that Jimbo inherited and you can only coach up people so much, especially in only a single season. We badly need a secondary to beef up our pass defense, but more importantly we need better offensive linemen and at least a halfway decent quarterback.

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than. Both of these position groups were garbage last year. They are trash again this year. There's only so much coaching that can be done.

Btw: FSU our recruited us 5 out of 6 sumlin years here and only finished with less than 10 wins once, so what does that say about Taggert? Sumlin took over a heisman front runner and team expected to win 10 games in a weak ass PAC conference. What about him?

The only legitimate knock on Jimbo at this point is running with Mond when it appears he doesn't have it. But I truly believe that starkel would get murdered behind this line, like he did against Clemson and Alabama

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than

---

And then go look at FSU's O line. Who's fault is that?

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than. Both of these position groups were garbage last year. They are trash again this year. There's only so much coaching that can be done.

Btw: FSU our recruited us 5 out of 6 sumlin years here and only finished with less than 10 wins once, so what does that say about Taggert? Sumlin took over a heisman front runner and team expected to win 10 games in a weak ass PAC conference. What about him?

The only legitimate knock on Jimbo at this point is running with Mond when it appears he doesn't have it. But I truly believe that starkel would get murdered behind this line, like he did against Clemson and Alabama

---

Three years ago the consensus on this board was that all these guys were studs and other recruiting services are biased against the poor Aggies and that we should trust Sumlin. He knows what he's doing.

Is that not the case anymore?

Rendered Fat said:

---

The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

---

The previous coach was one of the best in the history of the program playing the toughest competition in the history of the program.

Jimbo is an upgrade, but to expect a night and day difference in year one with the same players is asinine.

Extremely poor logic by the op actually.

As terrible as Sumlin was, and as glad as I am to see him gone (should have happened sooner than it did), he did not coach last night's implosion in which Jimbo and Mond snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

beerad12man said:

---

Extremely poor logic by the op actually.

---

The position you're holding is that Jimbo is (outside of some small tangential capacity) not responsible for the present of ANY football program.

The only thing that sticks to him are Florida State's FAR past and our FAR future.

Willie Taggert is 51-55 (.481) overall in 9 years as a head coach

Jimbo Fisher is 88-27 (.765) overall in 9 years as a head coach

We overachieved in a loss to Clemson, played well enough to beat USC, and played at a high level against Kentucky. Since the bye we have underachieved against Miss State and Auburn. That's on the HC, both good and bad. But at the same time, Jimbo is responsible for assembling a staff of high level recruiters and that's already paying dividends. That will make the difference in the next couple of years.

Great question OP! You are absolutely correct!

AvidAggie said:

---

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

The "previous coach left behind a bunch of scrubs" excuse is pathetic. You're paid to coach. If the current players suck, do your job and coach them to be better. At $75 million, you don't get the luxury of the "these aren't my players" excuse. Make them effing better.

---

YAH!! Increase their 40 times, their verticals, the overall IQ, add 15 pounds and coach all the bad habits that have been ingrained for years in 9 months!!! It's not that hard

---

Again, it's not like this team was 3-9 last year.

---

This team also did not play three top ten teams at the beginning of the year last year either.

I understand that playing Clemson's so close, beating Kentucky, and giving Alabama their hardest test of the year has given most of y'all a false sense of what this team's potential is.

The reality is that this is a long process of revamping and Jimbo is 9 months into a complete rebuild. He hasn't even had a year to uncoach bad habits and coach up previously uncoached players.

1876er said:

---

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than. Both of these position groups were garbage last year. They are trash again this year. There's only so much coaching that can be done.

Btw: FSU our recruited us 5 out of 6 sumlin years here and only finished with less than 10 wins once, so what does that say about Taggert? Sumlin took over a heisman front runner and team expected to win 10 games in a weak ass PAC conference. What about him?

The only legitimate knock on Jimbo at this point is running with Mond when it appears he doesn't have it. But I truly believe that starkel would get murdered behind this line, like he did against Clemson and Alabama

---

Three years ago the consensus on this board was that all these guys were studs and other recruiting services are biased against the poor Aggies and that we should trust Sumlin. He knows what he's doing.

Is that not the case anymore?

---

Because back then, just like now, reasonable voices never prevail. The zoo lives off emotional highs and emotional lows. No one can see it for what it really is

Some 9f you are acting like he inherited garbage. Those are some talented classes he is dealing with. If it doesn't get a lot better next yr then I am going to get concerned.

We might've gotten a pig in a poke.

Ag4coal said:

---

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

Go look at our starting O Line and our corners and get back to me.

Easy to get in the top 15 with 5 star QBs, RBs and WRs. Doesn't do you any good if other positions are average to worse than. Both of these position groups were garbage last year. They are trash again this year. There's only so much coaching that can be done.

Btw: FSU our recruited us 5 out of 6 sumlin years here and only finished with less than 10 wins once, so what does that say about Taggert? Sumlin took over a heisman front runner and team expected to win 10 games in a weak ass PAC conference. What about him?

The only legitimate knock on Jimbo at this point is running with Mond when it appears he doesn't have it. But I truly believe that starkel would get murdered behind this line, like he did against Clemson and Alabama

---

Our terrible Oline whipped two 4 stars and one 5 star D linemans azz yesterday running the ball, mauled them. If we had an average passing QB, Auburn would not have been in the game.

They are not trash.

If you want to talk Sumlin's recruiting rankings, here's a little nugget for you.

If you go back over the last five years, our composite class ranking on numbers was comparable to Clemson's. However, if you dig deeper into the numbers, you will find that most years Clemson signed less than 20 players and we usually signed well over 20 with theirs having a significantly higher average rating.

So this means two things.
1. Sumlin's recruiting rankings were bolstered by signing large numbers.
2. We were only able to sign large numbers because we had high attrition which left us perpetually young.

Sumlin also boosted recruiting numbers by signing a lot of highly rated players all at the same position while having to settle for lesser players at a lot of our current weak spots.

Do you think our defense would be markedly better if we had all those four and five star DBs that went to tu instead of A&M?

Rendered Fat said:

---

Your goaltending would have some merit if Sumlin didn't have top 15 recruiting classes every year.

---

The idea that you think people need to defend a coach less than a year in is laughable