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The Wrecking Crew: Fact from Fiction

11,444 Views | 91 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by aeon-ag
John Francis Donaghy
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For all the posters that have been going on and on about how this defense is nowhere near the old Wrecking Crew days under RC Slocum, and how our defense would have to be consistently in the top 5 to earn the moniker back, I decided to do a little fact checking.

I looked up A&M's national scoring defense rankings for every year of Slocum's tenure. I chose scoring defense because at the end of the day, all that really matters is keeping points off the board. So I figured that was the most appropriate standard to use.

Scoring Defense:
1989: 9th
1990: 28th
1991: 7th
1992: 9th
1993: 2nd
1994: 4th
1995: 3rd
1996: 38th
1997: 16th
1998: 10th
1999: 19th
2000: 10th
2001: 13th
2002: 42nd

Average: 15th

2016 so far: 12th

So really, the current defense is statistically on par with the average Slocum defense, and the only period that was significantly ahead of where we are now was the 3 season stretch from 1993 to 1995 when our defense was in the top 5. Those were also the only top 5 scoring defenses Slocum fielded as a head coach.

And if you consider the difference in schedule strength between the old SWC and our current SECW slate, and the fact that 75% of this season's games that have gone into that current ranking were against UCLA, Auburn, and Arkansas, while most of the teams ahead of us have played 2-4 cupcakes so far to help pad their stats, and that #18 ranking starts to look even more impressive.

I know that as we get older, our younger selves become cooler and more handsome, and the girls we "dated" get prettier and prettier in our memories, and the football team we remember becomes increasingly fearsome, but when you get down to brass tacks, the numbers show we are looking at what would have been considered a standard Wrecking Crew defense back during Slocum's tenure.

Give the players what they've earned.

WRECKING CREW
FriscoKid
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AG
Don't tell me what to do.
AggBock
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AG
Agree.
Ag Tag
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Our high water mark: We had the 2nd best defense in the nation, 23 years ago.
A&M03
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I agree with everything you said, OP.

The only real difference that I seem to remember though is that the Wrecking Crew defenses scored more defensive touchdowns than this group has done so far.

Now this may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I seem to remember the 2001 defense scoring more touchdowns than the Mark Farris lead offense.
deadbq03
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AG
And RC's defenses had the benefit of being on the field for fewer possessions.

I'd love to see normalized data for points and yards per possession.
Ishmael-Ag
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AG
Come back at the end of the season. Then compare. Until then it is statistically too small a sample size. Go take Statistics 101.
Emilio Fantastico
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quote:
And RC's defenses had the benefit of being on the field for fewer possessions.

I'd love to see normalized data for points and yards per possession.

That's why it was good that OP used scoring defense rank for comparison instead of just points per game. Rank is relative to everyone else at the same time whereas raw stats have many caveats when doing comparisons to different times and seasons.
Those best wrecking crew defenses probably gave up less than 10 ppg while this year we are giving up 16 ppg. Not a huge difference but significant. However, as said, today's defenses face 2-3 more possessions per game than those back in the wrecking crew days.
Jack Cheese
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Need to go further back to when RC was the DC. That's when the WC was born.
ag-bq-seventy
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Well, scoring defense, in my opinion, is not the best measure. Some of the scores are by the other team's defense. The one best measure is yards per play, split out into by run and by pass. That's as close to normalizing the data as one can get. But, others may disagree.

Look, I'm a statistician. I teach research and statistics at the doctoral level. Point me to the data and I'll do the analysis myself. I'll look by several different variables.

But, it's curious that you stopped at 2002. The WC was dead several years before that. By the time Dat was a senior, the WC was on life support. We just didn't have the hosses anymore.

To me, we give up way to many passing yards to be the WC. Yes, it's a different game now, but if we were the WC, we'd still be giving up much less that most other teams. It's all relative. Where do we rank against other defenses in passing yards?

The running defense last week against Arkansas was certainly up to WC standards. Except for two or three long runs, it was just outstanding. Lots of TFL ... Wrecking Crew Style. Now, if we could just get some lock down corners who don't get PI penalties ....

I am NOT suggesting that no one yell "Wrecking Crew" at the games. The defense is much better and who am I to say others can't yell what they want. But, some of us who watched the WC week in and week out, just have a different perspective. Frankly, it's not worth arguing about. But it is worth discussing.
Gardening Ag
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1989-2002 record vs ut?

7-7

OP is right.
GinMan
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quote:



Scoring Defense:
1989: 9th
1990: 28th
1991: 7th
1992: 9th
1993: 2nd
1994: 4th
1995: 3rd
1996: 38th
1997: 16th
1998: 10th
1999: 19th
2000: 10th
2001: 13th
2002: 42nd

Average: 15th

2016 so far: 18th


Why wouldn't you include 1988, and 2003-2015?
Would definitely make one appreciate A&M defenses 18th ranking so far this season.
Jack Cheese
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WC is about attitude, disruption, tackling, physicality, and dictating the game to the opponent. This year's defense is closer in each of those respects to the old WC than any in recent memory.

We've had decent defenses under Derueter and at least once under Snyder, but they were opportunistic finesse defenses. This year is different, much more physical.
Aggie
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quote:

1989-2002 record vs ut?

7-7

OP is right.



1984-1994 record vs ut ?
10-1

Op is leaving off quite a few years
DallasAg 94
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RC was the HC for those years, not DC.

'89-'93: Bob Davie - Currently HC at New Mexico ('12-Present)
Avg 11th
'94: Tommy Tuberville - Currently HC at HC at Cincy ('13-Present)
Avg 4th
'95-'96: Phil Bennett - Currently DC at Baylor ('11-Present)
Avg 20th
'97-'02: Mike Hamkwitz - Currently DC at NWestern ('08-Present)
Avg 18th
Aggie
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And the #1 reason I'm not ready to call a defense the wrecking crew.. Because it's September.
None of those above rankings were midseason.. The were final rankings.
And even if this defense does finish in the top 20 it probably still wouldn't be " wrecking crew " IMO because the wrecking crew defense was not a flash in the pan. It was a sustained dominating defense consistent for many many years.. Not a 1 year wonder.
Gardening Ag
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quote:


1984-1994 record vs ut ?
10-1

Op is leaving off quite a few years

wut? More like 6-5
GinMan
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AG
quote:


1984-1994 record vs tu ?


FIFY
Emilio Fantastico
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quote:
quote:


1984-1994 record vs tu
10-1

Op is leaving off quite a few years

wut? More like 6-5


Better now? Did the ut confuse you?
FriscoKid
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AG
You cherry picked scoring defense to support your case.

Our front 4 is outstanding. Our DEs are all-American. The goal line stand brought back memories of the early '90s. But our pass defense is nowhere close.

We had the longest home winning streak in the country with the WC. If the 4th quarter started with the Ags in the lead then you could turn out the lights because the other team was not going to catch us. i remember wanting to punt on first down because I thought we had a better chance of scoring if we were playing defense.

Chavis is getting the team there, but not the same at all. I hope they get there though because total domination on defense is fun to watch.
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HDeathstar
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back then you would go to the concession stand when the Def. was on the field. Nothing was going to happen. Had to be there for the Offense, to pray that they did not screw it up and lose the game for us.

This def. is also missing linebackers. If we had some good ones now, it would be similar.
pingpro4
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quote:
Come back at the end of the season. Then compare. Until then it is statistically too small a sample size. Go take Statistics 101.
I was just going to say the same thing. OP you are comparing 14 data points to 1 data point. That is approx. comparing 140 games to 4 games. Statistics doesn't work that way. As ag-bq-seventy pointed out that if you removed 2002 we would have averaged 12th in the 13 years we are looking at so your "statistical analysis" is invalid.

Not to mention like others have on here, it is only SEPTEMBER. Lets have this discussion at the end of the year because we have done really well in September since 2012 and then we dive off a cliff so lets just wait till we win a NC.

Lastly, I am all for our D having the nickname Wrecking Crew - in fact I was BQ 2008-2012 and I was at the Nebraska game in 2010 when we all started chanting WC again. If we want our D to have that name all we need to do is start chanting WC. We don't need to justify it with statistics. We are Aggies and we can do whatever the hell we want!
rbcs_2
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AG
Average doesn't really tell you a lot. We only had 2 seasons where we finished close to the average.
94chem
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OP can use whatever cute metric he wants, but the 1991 defense was straight filthy, and we haven't seen anything like it since:

Sam Adams
Quentin Coryatt
Kevin Smith
Marcus Buckley
Reggie Graham
Patrick Bates
Derrick Frazier
Lance Teichelman

...and of course, Steve Solari.

The talent on this year's team is getting there, but is still a dominant OLB and lock-down corner away, imo. Claude George is starting to put the fear of God in some people, but the secondary needs to be more ball-hawking.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Not to mention like others have on here, it is only SEPTEMBER. Lets have this discussion at the end of the year because we have done really well in September since 2012 and then we dive off a cliff so lets just wait till we win a NC.

I actually view it the other way . . we have have a relatively challenging schedule compared to other programs who have scheduled creampuff matchups. K-State is #1 in total defense right now, mostly because they have played on respectable team in Stanford and then Florida Atlantic and Missouri State.

They have W. Virginia and Texas Tech the next two games . . .they will probably be middle of the pack after that.
FriscoKid
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Yeah, that team had a few stars.
AGinHI
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Forget the stats. Forget the data. Forget what happened 20-30 years ago.

Forget even labeling this defense as the Wrecking Crew.

But, when we're 5-0 and UT rolls in at 5-0, why not support our vastly improved D with chants of Wrecking Crew--Wrecking Crew?

Psychology research has yet to pinpoint how exactly crowds impact home field advantage, but there is some evidence of links between cheering and home-team success, and more pertinent to the discussion of being thought of as the WC, is the effect on players beliefs and attitudes, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Ok. This D is statistically not like the WC of old,

but with a stadium rocking the Wrecking Crew chant--they just may play like it.
Bluecat_Aggie94
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The game has really changed since those days. Offenses are different. Back then, 300 yards of total offense was a really good day. Time of possession was critical, and 60 offensive plays was typical.

What I remember about the Wrecking Crew days what that when they came on the field and it was critical to get a stop, nine times out of ten, the WC came through. If it was 3rd down an 3 in the 4th quarter of a close game, and the WC was on the field, it was loud in the stands, the WC had confidence, and you just KNEW they were going to stuff them.

In contrast, look what Arkansas did in the air of 3rd down, especially in the first half. I know we stuffed the run, and I know we kept them out of the end zone on some amazing, Wrecking Crew like plays, but the WC of old got a lot more 3 and outs.

No doubt some of my memories have taken on the gilded hue of nostalgia. But I think the real difference is just that offensive innovation has ruled the last 15 years, so the side by side comparisons just don't really hold up.
txagssweetie2014
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The 90, 96 and 02 defenses were not wrecking crew defenses. Op is wrong for putting these defenses into his analysis. And the 97 and 99 were marginal wrecking crew defenses. You can use these but wrecking crews were top 10. If the defense finishes top 10 then call it a wrecking crew defense.

And yards matter as well. That's giving up a lot of field position and time of possession. We need to cut down the passing yardage. Better cornerback play.
JRB78
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We keep mentioning the quality of the opposition we have faced, but two of those quality opponents have had trouble scoring all season. When we shut down a high powered offense that other defenses have struggled against, then maybe I will be convinced. Its a good defense, but I still don't see it as a dominant one.
corybantic
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Speaking as an olds, one reason the WC stood out was that the offense was so mediocre. We'd usually have a good RB but the rest was incomplete. My blood pressure spiked when our offense took the field. Recently our team has been more balanced save for JFF / Evans.
BreckCO2000
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I guess we need to wait another 10 years and see what the average was for Chavis' defenses. Then we can decide if the wrecking crew was back.
GoneGirl
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quote:
And the #1 reason I'm not ready to call a defense the wrecking crew.. Because it's September.
None of those above rankings were midseason.. The were final rankings.
And even if this defense does finish in the top 20 it probably still wouldn't be " wrecking crew " IMO because the wrecking crew defense was not a flash in the pan. It was a sustained dominating defense consistent for many many years.. Not a 1 year wonder.

This. While I'm cautiously optimistic, 4 games does not a Wrecking Crew make.

They need to pay their dues first.

TAM85
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Agree with OP. Don't get hung up looking in the rear view mirror and miss what is happening right in front of you. We are playing WC defense.
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