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Lopez was on it this morning!

13,925 Views | 70 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Aggie Joe 93
JerseyVillageAG99
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I know majority of the thoughts on Lopez here. However, we should give him props for literally calling out Baylol, Ken Starr, and even the Baptist church. Lopez literally said, "Briles knew about the 2013 incident with Oakman. Its obvious that Briles is not going to act on this. So where does the Baptist church step up and say, 'Is this what we stand for as a Baptist church?'". Lopez flat out called out Ken Starr and all the central Texas media for not investigating this with any integrity. Personal feelings aside Lopez was 100% correct IMO.
W
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he was indeed 100% correct.

the lack of media coverage is astounding
Schrute
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If the Baylol idiots need evidence that their program is irrelevant, look no further than this lack of attention to these issues.





dixichkn
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Clay Travis kinda nailed it yesterday......if this were happening at tu or here at A&M, calls for the coaches/AD's heads, if not that of the university president, would be ringing loud and and clear across the airwaves. And that, to me, is kind of Baylol's saving grace at the moment, as well as the biggest indictment of their "relevance" as a sports program.........

NO. ONE. CARES. ABOUT. YOU.
The Collective
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Why should Baptists step up and yell at Baylor? Baylor has pretty much disavowed the church.
greg.w.h
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The comment on "the Baptist church" is simply ignorant. Not only are there not one but TWO significant state-wide conventions of Southern Baptists in Texas, but Baylor is largely independent from both as well as the national Southern Baptist Convention. In addition to that, each church--which is to say only the local congregations are called "churches"--is autonomous and none of the other associations, state conventions, or national conventions has any say over how a church is run other than the ability to disfellowship churches that promote theology or doctrine that is inconsistent with the core beliefs of the conventions (Baptist Faith & Message 2000 for the Southern Baptists of Texas and the national Southern Baptist Convention and largely the Baptist Faith & Message 1963 for the BGCT.)

In addition to that, the chief executive of Baylor isn't even a Southern Baptist: Starr is Disciples of Christ. So there is literally no theological constraints on Baylor as a school and no church or convention is responsible OR liable for their actions or current situation.

As an additional note: the national Convention has more responsibility for the actions of the so-called entities (LifeWay, International Mission Board, North American Mission Board, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, GuideStone, and the seminaries) in that the Convention is the single member owner of each but the various Boards of Trustees are a firewall against legal liability since they have full responsibility for running the various entities.

If I recall correctly, Baylor self-appoints its own trustees and they are who you should be castigating instead of "the Baptist church" since the school is fully independent. They're the ones permitting the current circumstances to continue largely because there is no effective means for holding them accountable.
WES2006AG
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Looks like Lopez hit pretty close to home with this Baptist on the Baylol football teams rape problem.
DrZ
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There are a few isolated churches that have an independent relationship with Baylor, i.e. Tallowood in Houston but for the most part the larger Baptist churches in Texas actually have virtually no connection with Baylor. There is a much larger Aggie presence in the pews than Baylor.
The Collective
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Well, I just don't think that it makes sense, and I'm not some great defender of the Baptist church. Is the "generic" Methodist church or body responsible for denouncing all wrongs at SMU? The reality is the southern Baptists will probably focus all of their attention on Target this year.
Joe Schillaci 48
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quote:
other than the ability to disfellowship churches that promote theology or doctrine that is inconsistent with the core beliefs of the conventions

If these Baptist conventions had any fortitude, they would "disfellowship" Baylor. At least make a comment that would condemn the activity that is going on in Waco.

I would think the rape culture at Baylor would be "inconsistent with the core belief of the conventions".

Conventions...it's your move.
512Ag
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This is completely on the journalists and law enforcement in Waco and in the state of Texas for not exposing Starr and the others for the trash they are. I'm not big on laying the responsibility on a religious entity that has a only loose affiliation with a university.
Clown Question
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I don't think the problem is Baptists. I think the problem is that baylor has often tried to use its connections to the Baptist church (however tenuous those connections may be) to couch itself in some sort of bull **** self righteousness. Maybe Lopez was saying the Baptists need to come out and say they have no real connection to baylor, because baylor sure likes to tout its connections when it is convenient for them.

I don't think baylor represents the Baptist church. I am not even a Baptist either. I think baylor represents a cesspool of disgusting hypocrisy and hubris. They are an institution so drenched in sleaze, I am surprised most decent people don't vomit when near the campus. They are simply one of the worst institutions ever in terms of corruption and immorality. They are up there with Penn State in terms of their complicity in criminal activity. Hell, this is not even the first time they have been caught covering up crimes. Remember Carlton Dotson and Dave Bliss.
Owlagdad
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Our preacher, a Baylor grad, disowned Baylor several years back to dismay of big money folks. There are hanger ons who send their kids there in belief they are getting good Baptist education, but lots of Baptists will admit that for strict doctrine, go to one of smaller schools who have not been contaminated by academia.
TMF
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First of all I think Lopez is spot on just about all the time. Many need to take the maroon blinders off.

Whether Baylor is baptist, Catholic, state run, etc. doesn't matter. The call for coaches and president should be there irregardless. Them claiming higher standards because of hiding behind a religious group, and supposed affiliation makes it worse I guess.
80s Guy
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I live close to Waco and the sad thing is that many of my friends and neighbors who are Baylor grads and fans have gone totally radio silent recently. Some of the these are pastors, deacons, and other church leaders in Baptist and other non demoninational churches in the area. Their lack of outcry about the situation tells me all I need to know about Baylor and it's leadership.
The Collective
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quote:
Our preacher, a Baylor grad, disowned Baylor several years back to dismay of big money folks. There are hanger ons who send their kids there in belief they are getting good Baptist education, but lots of Baptists will admit that for strict doctrine, go to one of smaller schools who have not been contaminated by academia.


Yep. If you really want to go to a Baptist school, Wayland, Howard Payne, HBU, DBU, & Hardin Simmons are all better options than Baylor. Of course, I'd just suggest some place like A&M where you can get some level of diversity of thought without outright hate toward religious beliefs. Baylor, to me, is the worst. They are hypocrites. I am amazed at the number of good Baylor folks that I know through church and business that don't think this is a big deal.
Citizen Reign
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quote:
The comment on "the Baptist church" is simply ignorant. Not only are there not one but TWO significant state-wide conventions of Southern Baptists in Texas, but Baylor is largely independent from both as well as the national Southern Baptist Convention. In addition to that, each church--which is to say only the local congregations are called "churches"--is autonomous and none of the other associations, state conventions, or national conventions has any say over how a church is run other than the ability to disfellowship churches that promote theology or doctrine that is inconsistent with the core beliefs of the conventions (Baptist Faith & Message 2000 for the Southern Baptists of Texas and the national Southern Baptist Convention and largely the Baptist Faith & Message 1963 for the BGCT.)
That's great but do either of the two conventions think the general population knows that?

If I shared a name with an institution that was allowing this type of thing, I'd be calling them out and demanding they make it clear there is a difference. Or, I'd be campaigning to make sure folks don't confuse my name and beliefs.

But by all means, keep expecting people to ignore perception. Just like the Muslim faith, the Baptist are allowing a group to drag their name through the mud while claiming it's others that are ignorant. Like it's my responsibility, as an agnostic, to spread "the truth" and learn the differences.
greg.w.h
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quote:
Looks like Lopez hit pretty close to home with this Baptist on the Baylol football teams rape problem.
I couldn't care less what Baylor does. And calling the school "Baptist" is slander.
TMartin
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"If the Baylol idiots need evidence that their program is irrelevant, look no further than this lack of attention to these issues."

Baylor would have been left behind if it wasn't for Ma Richards and Ken Starr was humiliated nationally by Bill Clinton. Those scars obviously run deep.
Speedystooth
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quote:
f I shared a name with an institution that was allowing this type of thing, I'd be calling them out and demanding they make it clear there is a difference.


Steeped in denial..
OldShadeOfBlue
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In terms of allowing a known rapist and batterer on your team and into your campus does it really make a difference whether your school is affiliated with a religious sect? Shouldn't it just be wrong to let that happen anywhere?

In short, what does any of this have to do with Baylor being a Baptist school??
Bunk Moreland
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quote:
quote:
Looks like Lopez hit pretty close to home with this Baptist on the Baylol football teams rape problem.
I couldn't care less what Baylor does. And calling the school "Baptist" is slander.


quote:

Aware of its responsibility as the largest Baptist educational institution in the world and as a member of the international community of higher learning, Baylor promotes exemplary teaching, encourages innovative and original research, and supports professional excellence in various specialized disciplines. Advancing the frontiers of knowledge while cultivating a Christian world-view, Baylor holds fast to its original commitment to build a university that is Pro Ecclesia, Pro Texana.


http://www.baylor.edu/about/index.php?id=88781


Baylor claims the connection all the time. I understand this hits close to home as you are most assuredly a southern Baptist, but no one is denigrating Baptists as a whole. They're denigrating Baylor Baptists, and the university's desire to cloak themselves in this aura of an elite religious institution whenever it can benefit them, and juxtaposing that to the horrific mistreatment and downright negligence to protect female students at the expense of football victories.
AColunga07
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Citizen Reign: It is not my or any other Baptist's responsibility to correct your ignorance. Do yourself a favor and a spend a few minutes educating yourself before expressing a strong ignorant opinion. At the very least, recognize when you are corrected/called out after expressing your ignorance.

As previously mentioned, each Baptist church is individually governed/operated. One is not responsible for the other. Or should every state be held accountable when another does something stupid or wrong? Or perhaps you believe that every single law enforcement agency needs to respond when ANY law enforcement officer misuses the authority/trust granted to them. Does it really make sense for HPD to apologize for racism in law enforcement in California? Or perhaps the Houston water authority should apologize for the Flint water issue?

The dividing line between a Baptist, Methodist or any other protestant denomination is small in the big picture (we are all Christians and so, believe in the same basic truths although some of the details especially pertaining to our practice may be different). And I am sure that the bulk of Christians agree that what has and seemingly continues to occur at "Christian" institutions such as Baylor is a tragedy. I have only found one person in my entire church that has defended Baylor's actions in any capacity, and yes she is an alum. There are many Baylor alumni at my church that agree with everyone else that it is a tragedy and something should be done.

Now, you can draw some terrible conclusions from this and make it seem like the evil baptist empire of the world is out to get you, but that would be ignorant. But then again, you seem to have no problem with ignorance, so maybe you will.
TexAgs91
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Mmmm Lopez

Hound Dog 77
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wow, the obsession with Baylor is strong on here. Not really sure why we care so much considering how many say they are irrelevant.
MallalieuAg
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babtists
Faustus
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Is this where we say "Religion of Peace?"
FrankK
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Sad that Norte Dame & Baylol fall into the same category as FSU in their enablement of rapists and violence.
fessparker
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quote:
And calling the school "Baptist" is slander to the Baptists.
FIFY
AnalogyAg
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i imagine most true Baptists feel about the same way I did and do as a Catholic watching Notre Dame bestow an honorary degree on Obama and inviting him to speak at commencement.

At least there was a very vocal outcry by students alumni and catholics nationwide (yet ignored) against that.
Ag Tag
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quote:
babtists

I thought they said Babdists.
Citizen Reign
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quote:
Citizen Reign: It is not my or any other Baptist's responsibility to correct your ignorance. Do yourself a favor and a spend a few minutes educating yourself before expressing a strong ignorant opinion. At the very least, recognize when you are corrected/called out after expressing your ignorance.

As previously mentioned, each Baptist church is individually governed/operated. One is not responsible for the other. Or should every state be held accountable when another does something stupid or wrong? Or perhaps you believe that every single law enforcement agency needs to respond when ANY law enforcement officer misuses the authority/trust granted to them. Does it really make sense for HPD to apologize for racism in law enforcement in California? Or perhaps the Houston water authority should apologize for the Flint water issue?

The dividing line between a Baptist, Methodist or any other protestant denomination is small in the big picture (we are all Christians and so, believe in the same basic truths although some of the details especially pertaining to our practice may be different). And I am sure that the bulk of Christians agree that what has and seemingly continues to occur at "Christian" institutions such as Baylor is a tragedy. I have only found one person in my entire church that has defended Baylor's actions in any capacity, and yes she is an alum. There are many Baylor alumni at my church that agree with everyone else that it is a tragedy and something should be done.

Now, you can draw some terrible conclusions from this and make it seem like the evil baptist empire of the world is out to get you, but that would be ignorant. But then again, you seem to have no problem with ignorance, so maybe you will.
LOL! There is no reason for me to take the time to learn the difference between your Baptist and other Baptist. I'm not the one concerned with societies perception of any of them. I certainly don't care that the "The dividing line between a Baptist, Methodist or any other protestant denomination is small in the big picture". But since you brought it up, thank you for educating me on how little difference there is between your Baptist and Baylor Baptist. Actually, though, that is something that I had already gathered.

The Methodist Church that I grew up in fired the Pastor for cheating on his wife with the church secretary. The new hire, who was also married, then proceeded to have an affair with a married member of his congregation. Hence, the reason I choose to no longer sit and listen to any denominations hypocritical ramblings.
Al Bula
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quote:
The comment on "the Baptist church" is simply ignorant. Not only are there not one but TWO significant state-wide conventions of Southern Baptists in Texas, but Baylor is largely independent from both as well as the national Southern Baptist Convention. In addition to that, each church--which is to say only the local congregations are called "churches"--is autonomous and none of the other associations, state conventions, or national conventions has any say over how a church is run other than the ability to disfellowship churches that promote theology or doctrine that is inconsistent with the core beliefs of the conventions (Baptist Faith & Message 2000 for the Southern Baptists of Texas and the national Southern Baptist Convention and largely the Baptist Faith & Message 1963 for the BGCT.)

In addition to that, the chief executive of Baylor isn't even a Southern Baptist: Starr is Disciples of Christ. So there is literally no theological constraints on Baylor as a school and no church or convention is responsible OR liable for their actions or current situation.

As an additional note: the national Convention has more responsibility for the actions of the so-called entities (LifeWay, International Mission Board, North American Mission Board, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, GuideStone, and the seminaries) in that the Convention is the single member owner of each but the various Boards of Trustees are a firewall against legal liability since they have full responsibility for running the various entities.

If I recall correctly, Baylor self-appoints its own trustees and they are who you should be castigating instead of "the Baptist church" since the school is fully independent. They're the ones permitting the current circumstances to continue largely because there is no effective means for holding them accountable.
Dropping some boring Baptist knowledge. You must not be allowed to dance and have to drink in private.
94chem
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Just as there are Aggie Catholics who can't stand Notre Dame, there are Aggie Baptists who can't stand Baylor. The typical Baptist church in Texas has a mix of Baylor alums, Baylor parents, Aggie alums, Aggie parents, a few sips, Red Raiders, coogs, and Cajuns mixed in. It's always a bit uneasy dealing with the Baylor people, especially since so many of them think it's actually a Christian school. It's uneasy because if truth be told, I would have to tell them that it's not just a sports "rivalry." The problem is that I really don't like anything about Baylor. It's a worldly, hypocritical, holier-than-thou collection of people that views itself as academically elite (it's not), on the level of t.u. and A&M (it's not), worth the high tuition (it's not), Christian (it's not), a top private school (it's not), ethical (it's not), athletically superior (it is temporarily, if rapes, murders, and slimy recruiting are allowed).

See how it can be a bit difficult to worship with people when those thoughts are beneath the surface?

To that end, I think it would be really nice if pastors would comment on this stuff from the pulpit, and break this "radio silence." Baylor supporters need to know that it's okay to be publicly disgusted, to withhold support, to be a part of the solution, to admit that Baylor is broken.

I thought Baylor made a huge mistake when they ran off Sloan...I had no idea it would be this bad. They are so blind - the best thing that happened to them in the last 50 years was for A&M to go to the SEC...and their president fought it to the bitter end...the irony.

GiveEmHellBill
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Baylor University Mission Statement

quote:
Chartered in 1845 by the Republic of Texas and affiliated with the Baptist General Convention of Texas, Baylor is both the state's oldest institution of higher learning and the world's largest Baptist university. Established to be a servant of the church and of society, Baylor seeks to fulfill its calling through excellence in teaching and research, in scholarship and publication, and in service to the community, both local and global.

Aware of its responsibility as the largest Baptist educational institution in the world and as a member of the international community of higher learning, Baylor promotes exemplary teaching, encourages innovative and original research, and supports professional excellence in various specialized disciplines. Advancing the frontiers of knowledge while cultivating a Christian world-view, Baylor holds fast to its original commitment to build a university that is Pro Ecclesia, Pro Texana.
Whether any Baptists in Texas want to admit it or acknowledge it, Baylor is indeed a Baptist institution and considers it part of their identity.

Now, whether rape culture can co-exist with Baptists ideals is another story.....
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