Well said

KDS is a boss

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Did you dream about him too?

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The boss

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To date:

Overrated and over paid.

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Based purely on wins/losses as the A&M coach I might agree here. His ability to recruit and make the program money.. He's worth what they are paying him if you buy into the idea that someone who coaches a game should earn millions

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To date:

Overrated and over paid.

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So glad that Lat is back with his new attitude.

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To date:

Overrated and over paid.

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Based purely on wins/losses as the A&M coach I might agree here. His ability to recruit and make the program money.. He's worth what they are paying him if you buy into the idea that someone who coaches a game should earn millions

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Here are the numbers:

According to USA Today 2014 NCAA Football Head Coaches salaries:

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

Saban: $7,160,187; 84.259 win %; overall record 91-17
1 conference title
3 national titles
2 conference division titles

Dantonio: $5,636,145; 70.755 win%; overall record 75-31
2 conference titles
0 national titles
1 conference division title

Stoops: $5,058,333; 76.636 win%; overall record 82-25
4 conference titles
0 national titles
0 conference division titles

Sumlin: $5,006,000; 69.231 win%; overall record 63-28
0 conference titles
0 national titles
2 conference division titles

Strong: $5,000,270; 66.154 win%; overall record 43-22
2 conference titles
0 national titles
0 conference division titles

I used records from 2007 forward because, well, that's when Saban started at Bama and I started with him first. Also of note is that Stoops has a national title prior to 2007.

Also of note: Coaches on the list making LESS than Sumlin in 2014:

Urban Meyer
Les Miles
James Franklin
Steve Spurrier
Gus Malzahn
Jimbo Fisher
Hugh Freeze

Conclusion: Sumlin is the only coach making $5M or more that has never won a conference title. While Strong has won a couple of conference titles, he has the lowest win% of any coach making $5M or more. So yea, depending on the metric, Sumlin is either the worst, or second worst coach on this list. And seeing the coaches below him in 2014 on the salary scale, we are overpaying him and he is over rated.

Tell me why his recruiting is worth $5M a year? And the money he has brought in is more on JFF than Sumlin. So are a lot of the recruits.

I will give Sumlin due credit for decent recruiting classes and for bringing in Chavis. But neither of those things is worth the $5M a year we are paying him. He either wins this year, and wins big, or we need to begin making succession plans.

Sumlin needs a good defensive coach. The lack of development there the past two seasons have really looked bad on his overall performance.

That's why he took a long hard look last December. He is only going to have maybe one chance with a new defensive coordinator.

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He either wins this year, and wins big, or we need to begin making succession plans.

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Define win big.

Also...

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And the money he has brought in is more on JFF than Sumlin. So are a lot of the recruits.

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Let's be very generous and assume that all the recent donations are primarily because of JFF. To think the recruits are also primarily on JFF as well is disingenious at best. Point me to some statements by recruits saying they're here because of JFF only. Because I could pull up a ton that highlight Sumlin and staff as the reason they committed.

Gotta agree with Lat until Sumlin proves him
wrong.... Record has been getting worse every year since honeymoon . Trend points at players from previous staff( recruited and coached) are diminishing... He seems to have recruited well on paper but no results yet on field ... This is make or break year (IMO). Johnny is long gone as is the DC ... Anything less than 9-3 will be a fail...

Lat,
looking at those stats I'm almost tempted to say they're all overpaid, barring potentially Saban. I mean we're talking about millions a year, and in the past seven years some of those guys have only won a couple of conference titles (and in Strong's case that was the Big East or whatever the hell it was called when he won).

From a pure productivity standpoint of titles won, man, thats a lot of money to only win the Big 10 twice and no national titles (for example). But you have to look at more than that because there's so many moving parts that determine the outcome of a football season. ****, polls, POLLS for God's sake, still determine who is fortunate enough to make the playoffs.

That's why coaches salaries are almost based as much on potential as actual results, and of course the going market rate.

All that said, I'd agree that at this point Sumlin has to prove this year that he's worth his salary.

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He either wins this year, and wins big, or we need to begin making succession plans.

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Define win big.

Also...

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And the money he has brought in is more on JFF than Sumlin. So are a lot of the recruits.

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Let's be very generous and assume that all the recent donations are primarily because of JFF. To think the recruits are also primarily on JFF as well is disingenious at best. Point me to some statements by recruits saying they're here because of JFF only. Because I could pull up a ton that highlight Sumlin and staff as the reason they committed.

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Win big: 10 wins or more. In the conversation for the west till the end of the season.

I will concede your point about recruits. Sumlin is a good recruiter.

That's only half the battle. Wins need to be recorded for a recruiting class to be a truly good class.

But all in all, I think we are agreeing on the major points:

The trend looks bad right now. We are paying Sumlin based on potential, and he's a damn good recruiter as far as getting kids to campus. He's also made some coaching moves that look promising right now. He has to develop the kids he has in campus, the DC hire has to pay off, and Spav has to start getting this offense to click soon.

My line in the sand is ten wins this season. If that doesn't happen, I think we need to ask if the potential we are paying for is ever going to be realized.

you're putting way too much emphasis on championships.

only 1 of the 14 coaches can win the SEC title each year and only 1 of 120 coaches can win the national title.

it's better to focus on wins & final rankings in the polls. I believe Sumlin so far has finished #5, #18, and unranked. And his 28 wins in the past 3 seasons is the best 3-year stretch for the program since 97-98-99

I can agree with you on all of that.

Would love (bordering on expecting) to see 10 wins this coming season. Nine would be acceptable I suppose (but begrudgingly, and leave me with a disappointed taste in my mouth).

I don't get the love/high expectations for the rest of the SEC west that the media is handing out, while we're returning a very promising offense and more experienced/mature defense, yet they take a **** on us and project us last. I think we're as good or better than the majority, and like you, expect us to be in the running for the conference championship at the end of November. If we fall apart before then, well......

I am happy to "over pay" if that's the case. It's a competitive landscape, and he has been sought for. That's the price of playing the game. I don't take the short term view on his coaching career at A&M. KDS is 28-11, which is one of the best starts over 3 years for an Aggie coach. RC started out 27-9. I would like to see a progression of wins, and that hasn't happened. I do believe he has recruited well enough for us now to see on the field improvement this year, and especially in '16 and '17 when some of the young talent has matured. 10 wins would be a great season in '15.

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you're putting way too much emphasis on championships.

only 1 of the 14 coaches can win the SEC title each year and only 1 of 120 coaches can win the national title.

it's better to focus on wins & final rankings in the polls. I believe Sumlin so far has finished #5, #18, and unranked. And his 28 wins in the past 3 seasons is the best 3-year stretch for the program since 97-98-99

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I would agree, but think you need to go more in depth than simply comparing win totals and rankings. A 10 win season in the AAC is not equal to a 10 win season in the SEC. And a 10 win season is still almost meaningless if the two losses came against your only ranked opponents. Look at Baylor - hey, they win a lot of games, but against who? What happens when they face a quality OOC opponent?

Its all those variables that make it hard to simply form a list of coaches salaries and decide who's overpaid.

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I am happy to "over pay" if that's the case. It's a competitive landscape, and he has been sought for. That's the price of playing the game. I don't take the short term view on his coaching career at A&M. KDS is 28-11, which is one of the best starts over 3 years for an Aggie coach. RC started out 27-9. I would like to see a progression of wins, and that hasn't happened. I do believe he has recruited well enough for us now to see on the field improvement this year, and especially in '16 and '17 when some of the young talent has matured. 10 wins would be a great season in '15.

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Agree, and thats why I think we should hold off on the knee-jerk response of looking for his replacement after this season.