Texas A&M Football
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If you have followed Aggie Football for 30+ years

30,053 Views | 142 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Squadron7
12Howdy
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I would like to get your serious answers to this question...LOL... I know that is hard on this site.
If you have followed our football program since the 60's or even 70's.... WHY can we not get a truly competitive program built at A&M ? I mean a program that is truly relevant at a national level, for more than a 2 year stretch. We won a SWC championship under Stallings, we had a short, but really good, run under Bellard. But our only extended winning era was the mid 80's to early 90's, under Jackie and R.C. I know we have had some other decent years here and there, but why can Texas A&M not build a stronger football program???
ag_derp
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AG
old army
RGV AG
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AG
Kyle field is built on an ancient Indian burial ground.
BeveledAg
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quote:
Kyle field is built on an ancient Indian burial ground.
ag_derp
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AG
quote:
Kyle field is built on an ancient Indian burial ground.
Bernie13
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I thought I saw Vincent Price under the stadium running around with a spear.
12Howdy
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I should have know I couldn't get this question past all the children on this board
d78230
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AG
Only one champion in football every year. Plus we need cheerleaders.
ag_derp
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AG
1996OlAg
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Don't you know that the program focuses on academics first???
Fsanmig
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Global Warming
shano0603
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AG
blame obama
67walkon
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Let's go trolling. But....we are out of the shadow of the tower and are about to reach escape velocity !
jturner181
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AG
Until the move to the SEC, I believe the outside view was that A&M was a mid-tier football program...

As a school, no doubt a powerful and huge University, but in football, there was never the full scale commitment by the administration for athletics -

By moving to the SEC, a renown football conference and southern tradition league, its a statement by the University. Not only are we stepping up the athletic programs, but also embracing new traditions. We've always been tradition rich, but shallow pockets when it comes to pageantry of our brand, school, story, athletics, etc.

In Alabama, 87% of the population watches their college football team play on Saturday. In Texas, 17% of the population watches 1 of many play on Saturday... it simply is not as celebrated or valued. Because of the saturation of high school games, many programs on Saturday, and Cowboys/etc on Sunday, college football inside the state of Texas is not a religion like other places....

Travel around Texas neighborhoods and look for A&M flags in folks yards... then travel around Louisiana and you will see a fundamental shift...

Because of the adoption of college football in some communities, the focus on the Saturday games at Clemson, Florida State, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss, etc are just more rich in experience, care, commitment, and of course time spent by the community for the program.

A&M has never been loved by the surrounding communities, by the media, by the fans, etc like other programs have been. Aggies love A&M.... but the program has not been adopted with southern love/hospitality like other teams.

That outpouring of commitment, care, love, and support by the whole state flows into the Alabama program... and thus, makes it special. Same for Ole Miss, LSU, Florida, etc...

We are MUCH bigger than Alabama, better academics, many more students, many more wealthy alumni, huge endowment in comparison, etc.... we should, on paper, dominate them... buy why not? The commitment has not been there.... not yet anyway.

By stepping in the SEC, our eyes are opened to a religion that is athletic team support... of the likes we have simply never had or experienced. The 'culture' is slowly being adopted and I'm seeing a shift in support, but we aren't there yet.

Eventually A&M will be a special place athletically... a final destination for a Head Football Coach, not a stepping stone to something better.... Until that day, I'm here, supporting and standing at the 12th Man... and will help build that vision.



cecil77
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1) It's really hard, fewer teams than you may think have.

2) IMO Bellard could have, but we ran him off. Also the '74 SMU loss. Win that and we're in the Cotton Bowl, setting us up with a more confident experience for that infamous '75 Arky game. Win that and we very likely win the NC. Bellard was the first A&M coach to aggressively recruit the black athlete and deserves a special place.

3) Jackie was on the verge, but we ran him off.

4) IMO we stuck with Slocum too long. Our success was provincial, and folks who are honest with themselves will admit that at the time we all knew that we weren't top national caliber.

5) Fran, besides being Fran which would have been hard enough, was undermined here from the beginning. Even without that, we're a offsides penalty vs OU and Goodson running OB vs Neb away from an undefeated regular season.

6) Sherman arguably should have had two consecutive undefeated regular seasons. But his failure to start RT his soph year prevented it.

7) I think that Sumlin will get it done. However the party culture atmosphere developed over the past two years has now bitten him in the butt. He'll recover.
sarcazm04
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Interesting read.

Leadership Lessons from Nick Saban
Colonel A. 1976
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OK..Here is a serious answer,IMO we have not been willing, or maybe able to upgrade stadium and pay coaches enough until recently. I now believe that we are making the steps in the right direction to go to the next level, and are willing to do what it takes. I don't believe it will happen over night but will be in the next couple of years
Moving to the SEC is a great start and what we are doing recruiting will get us to the next level if we continue moving forward, and don't except mediocraty at any level..coaches, players, facilities, etc...

OK Zoo Blast Away!
Col. A 1976
MarylandAG
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It is a great question Howdy! I don't know the answer particularly since everything else seems to be in place, the rabid fan base, the facilities, fertile recruiting ground. I do not think there is any one answer. Ignore the folks the that will blast us both, but you asked a great question. In the past the "good old boy" network was in play and I think that had an effect. I don't necessarily mean in the FB program, I mean at the administrator level, etc. There was a lot of inbreeding going on with regard to who was in charge, and, at least in my opinion that trickled into the FB with who was hired and who was fired. For a while, we did not keep up with the facilities arm race and that affected recruiting, I think that was due to the good old boy network not willing to put the $$ into the program. Some of it is bum luck, doesn't it seem frustrating to you when we have an elite offense we have a defense that is atrocious or vie versa, never both at the same time. The last time I can remember us having great personnel on both sides of the ball was in the late 80's early, very early 90's, the Bucky Richardson, John Roper, Dana Baptise (sp?) era. For some reason we have whiffed on head coaches, Fran was the hot coaching commodity, and we go him, for whatever reason he forgot how to coach on the plane ride from Tuscaloosa to College Station and grossly misused one of the best QB talents we have ever had, the kid had something to with it as well since he couldn't put the weed down, but using him as an option QB was a huge injustice. Another thing is that just because a recruit has a certain number of stars doesn't make him an automatic and we have whiffed on plenty of recruits particularly linebacker. Good recruiting, at least between the early 90's and the present is a relatively new thing, for almost 2 decades our recruiting was less than stellar, remember back when we used to have a recruiting pipeline to Dallas Carter? There used to be a small number of programs that produced D1 talent, I think you will agree that has exploded where today talent is spread out. That allows more teams to have a shot at that talent instead of the way it used to be where colleges had certain piplines to a program, an in with the HS coach, good relationships, friendships, etc. In short it is a great question and I hope other actually respond to your question.
cecil77
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Colonel, your post brings up a different discussion. Why is a top tier program something to which we aspire, and is it worth it?

Billion dollar TV contracts.
Half billion dollar stadiums.
5 million dollar coaches.
Other than at A&M students are a virtual afterthought

I understand that the model works financially, but that belies the question "why is this something we want?"

A huge part of the answer is that one three letter word: ego Lots of adults build up their egos (and some base their ego upon) the proficiency of a bunch of 18-22 year old young men to play a game. Why?
Agsncws
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Speaking specifically from Sherrill to Sherman - we've never hired a truly elite, great coach. We've hired some really good coaches, but not great.

And as an unrelated addendum, Sherrill ran himself off. These were near the SMU days and the admin was left with no choice.
cecil77
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quote:
Sherrill ran himself off. These were near the SMU days and the admin was left with no choice.


That is incorrect.
timoteo
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I think its the same reason as the Cowboys and the old Houston Oiler comparison. The Cowboys always seemed to be one step ahead. We all know what happened to the Oilers.
Space91
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OP good question.

I'm a Spurs fan. We don't win Championships every year, but every year we are competitive.

The Aggies winning a Championship every year is not going to happen. But but not sucking is something we should all expect.

The Chicken Ranch
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quote:
Sherrill ran himself off..


False. We caved in to the DMN and NCAA. Jackie was the best coach we ever had and we should have told the NCAA to go F itself because we are keeping our coach.

And I think jturner81 has a very valid synopsis.
12Howdy
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Colonel and Maryland, you both bring up some really good points. I really never thought about us not really being committed until you brought it up. I can see that, and hopefully the move to the SEC is a good sign of a true commitment. And I do agree that the good ol boy system probably held us back in many areas. Maybe there is hope for the future and I will live to see it...
sarcazm04
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quote:
Colonel, your post brings up a different discussion. Why is a top tier program something to which we aspire, and is it worth it?

Billion dollar TV contracts.
Half billion dollar stadiums.
5 million dollar coaches.
Other than at A&M students are a virtual afterthought

I understand that the model works financially, but that belies the question "why is this something we want?"

A huge part of the answer is that one three letter word: ego Lots of adults build up their egos (and some base their ego upon) the proficiency of a bunch of 18-22 year old young men to play a game. Why?
Successful Football Programs:
- Give millions to academic programs
- Contribute to non-athletic scholarship funds
- Contribute to campus recreation centers
- contribute to local business revenue during gamedays which in turn employ students
- alumni donate more money to athletics AND academicsduring successful football years
- help other athletic programs like track orswimming
jim 78
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Emory quit because of Bum Bright , Jackie was screwed by the Ft Worth Telegram, R C was doing fine until Mack came in and started recruiting the High School Juniors and RC said he couldn't compete against 6th street. Our facilities fell behind for a short time. We royal screwed up hiring Fran who was built by Patterson, Sherman's coaching was good but his conditioning was horrible which lead to second half collapses. Sumlin selected the wrong man to run a defense and probably the wrong O line coach. However the move to the SEC separated us from Texas and has enabled us to bring in top recruits but we have to continue the trend. Johnny Football elevated everyone and made the coaches look fantastic when they weren't all that! Sumlin has to fire Snyder, Hagen, and hire a quality DC. He has to continue the recruiting and we might finally have a chance.

I dunno...maybe it is the burial ground theory...lol
SpicewoodAg
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quote:
1) It's really hard, fewer teams than you may think have.

2) IMO Bellard could have, but we ran him off. Also the '74 SMU loss. Win that and we're in the Cotton Bowl, setting us up with a more confident experience for that infamous '75 Arky game. Win that and we very likely win the NC. Bellard was the first A&M coach to aggressively recruit the black athlete and deserves a special place.

3) Jackie was on the verge, but we ran him off.

4) IMO we stuck with Slocum too long. Our success was provincial, and folks who are honest with themselves will admit that at the time we all knew that we weren't top national caliber.

5) Fran, besides being Fran which would have been hard enough, was undermined here from the beginning. Even without that, we're a offsides penalty vs OU and Goodson running OB vs Neb away from an undefeated regular season.

6) Sherman arguably should have had two consecutive undefeated regular seasons. But his failure to start RT his soph year prevented it.

7) I think that Sumlin will get it done. However the party culture atmosphere developed over the past two years has now bitten him in the butt. He'll recover.

I am class of '80. I agree with much of this, but Jackie caused his demise. We couldn't defend him after the recruiting issues surfaced. Until Sumlin proves otherwise Jackie was the best coach we've had going back to Bellard's days.

I agree with #4. RC was (still is) a fine man and fine coach. But in combination with an athletic department resistant to change, we got our ass kicked by Mack Brown's revolution in recruiting. RC had a revolving door of coaches (probably underpaid) that hurt continuity.

But to the original question of this thread.....my two cents:

Aggies are too enamored of their own crap. We believe our *h*t doesn't stink. Our preoccupation with our history and traditions caused us to be OK with "we're not very good but at least we're not teasips." Instead of making our success happen - we assumed it would come because we deserved it. Aggies - especially those in the zoo here are no more objective than the idiots at Sh*ggy. No one here will say Strong is doing a decent job and his team is getting better. But they are getting better. Swoopes is even starting to look like a quarterback. People here talk smack about tu guys getting arrested but won't admit we probably have and have had just as many losers on our roster. And too many people just refused to admit that by and large, tu kicked our asses in every sport for 30 years.

Even though Fran was a train wreck, I think Byrne was the first important step in the Aggies growing up as a school that excels in athletics. Our spending changed to where it needed to be. He had a real effort to market A&M as a brand - and it took off with our move to the SEC. We risk losing that buzz if Sumlin doesn't bring some energy back to this team.

Just about everything is now in place to keep us in the upper echelon - the stadium, the budget, the national recognition. Sumlin has to have the courage to make whatever changes are required in his staff to make us a consistent top 10 team.
grl38
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Sumlin is learning the hard way! no substitute for the Paul Bear Bryant way!
Bottlehead90
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I think our "fire the coach" mentality is part of the problem.
Players learn that if they underperform they can get their position coach or coordinator fired and that takes authority away from the coaches.
Rinse and repeat
We need some patience
This scenario has gone on far to long.
How many years are we a "young" team? How many times have we seen complacent upper class man pushed and then benched by a freshmen?
The coaches have to have authority.
And based on many of the responses on this thread we will continue the "fire the coach " method and the players will continue to have control.
No coaching changes might be the best thing for this team.



AgNFla
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tu taking the creme de LA creme recruits. Let's see how thus pan about now that we in the SEC
cecil77
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quote:
Successful Football Programs:
- Give millions to academic programs

I don't believe this is true.

quote:
- Contribute to non-athletic scholarship funds
True, but looking at the true purpose of fielding athletics teams, why do these "minor" sports need to be playing teams from across the country? These programs would be just as valuable being run similar to DIII teams.
quote:
- Contribute to campus recreation centers

Oh, really? How much? And when?

quote:
- contribute to local business revenue during gamedays which in turn employ students
True. Six to Seven weekends per year.

quote:
- alumni donate more money to athletics AND academicsduring successful football years
Yup. That's the ego to which I referred.

quote:
- help other athletic programs like track orswimming
You already said that.
sail33or
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I am an Old Ag and qualify to answer this. Great question and relevant to everything currently at issue.

Please filter out the juvenile responses. Those are only funny sometimes. We do have to laugh at the terrible, terrible Teams A&M has fielded. As that is more norm than not.

Two points to make.

1. The Aggie fan base, the belief system, the history of the school are absolutely unique. The Spirit developed certainly deserves a better representative than current and past A&M football Teams. You can sense the ENERGY/drive/determination in the Stadium to will the Team to victory or even a stop on Third Down but it doesn't get reflected into the Team's Performance. So Aggie expectations are for the Team to represent their love of the Spirit of AGGIELAND.

2. Football Players in the State of Texas are too diluted. There are more football schools in Texas than anywhere else. tu used to get more and thus their overall winning record. But not anymore. There are Texas Players on most Big Time Programs across the U.S. If I could assemble a Team of 22 current Texas Players regardless of what Team they are currently playing for I would win the National Championship with "ME" being the coach. (Meaning the players would be enough to win it.)

Sumlin will be just like Fran and Sherman. (Please exclude Manziel's 2 years. He was the greatest ever.) You are now seeing Sumlin and A&M au natural now. Sherrill was the best coach ever at A&M. He "hand" selected his team like Murray, etc. That is what IT TAKES. Alabama gets 99% of EVERYONE they hand select. Plus they have a JUCO FEED system for any backup they need. It is a Professional System. You can't coach Mastro to tackle. He just can't do it.
razor63
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quote:
Emory quit because of Bum Bright , Jackie was screwed by the Ft Worth Telegram, R C was doing fine until Mack came in and started recruiting the High School Juniors and RC said he couldn't compete against 6th street. Our facilities fell behind for a short time. We royal screwed up hiring Fran who was built by Patterson, Sherman's coaching was good but his conditioning was horrible which lead to second half collapses. Sumlin selected the wrong man to run a defense and probably the wrong O line coach. However the move to the SEC separated us from Texas and has enabled us to bring in top recruits but we have to continue the trend. Johnny Football elevated everyone and made the coaches look fantastic when they weren't all that! Sumlin has to fire Snyder, Hagen, and hire a quality DC. He has to continue the recruiting and we might finally have a chance.

I dunno...maybe it is the burial ground theory...lol
Nailed it!
Yid Army
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We seem to hang onto coaches 1 to 2 years too long. I haven't done research to back it up, but I feel like the top programs won't hesitate to fire a coach in only 3 years. I know Florida, Bama, Auburn and USC come to mind in the recent past. I don't think texas would hesitate firing Strong in 3 years (maybe even next year if they implode). For whatever reason, I just don't see A&M being that bold.
I am scared by the fact that this team seems to be regressing in the 3 years Sumlin has been here. Have there been any other top tier coaches that have regressed in the first 3 years of their regime, go on to be top 10 caliber coaches?
 
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