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Now That the Sips Won....

Cardboardboxer
12:43p, 7/15/11
H
So the Sips finally won- they got us to back down from the SEC (our only leverage) based on "trust," then abused that trust by starting the LHN and by using every bit of their power to make sure that network has unfair advantages (high school games, Big 12 games, etc.).

Because none of the Big 12 teams have any leverage- except for us an OU but we are too scared to use it for many reasons- it seems like things will get worse and worse. The expectation is that now that ESPiN has a vested interest in the tu program they will use their own lawyers and leverage to get a few conference games on the LHN every year which will build a moat around their program. To quote SI:

quote:
But ESPN isn't just testing the separation between church and state with Texas; there isn't one. Case in point: The ever-popular GameDay crew (Chris Fowler and Co.) will be appearing live from Austin for the channel's Aug. 26 debut. ESPN and Texas are now one and the same, and you can't tell me it won't affect the way GameDay, SportsCenter, Outside the Lines, et. al., cover Mack Brown's program.In a sport where many fans already live in a constant state of paranoia that the media is propping up someone else at their expense ... well, ESPN is flat-out doing it.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/07/13/russell-wilson-wisconsin-mailbag/index.html#ixzz1SCEbtRpO

So where do we, the Aggies go from here?

Obviously we want to beat them on the field, but the sips have just found a way to take a lot of the pleasure away from that. Here we are in maybe our best offseason ever (3 out of 5 against sips, beat every team in Texas last time we played them, beat OU and NU) and we can't enjoy it because of all the news about the LHN.

Those of us who are practical know that our leaders won't or can't stand up to the orange beast, so we have to find a way to enjoy ourselves despite being in a subservient position to the sips (like the rest of the conference).

What is the plan?

-Focus on non-football sports?

-Put together a campaign of backlash against the LHN with cable providers to make ourselves feel better?

-***** and wine on Texags about the way things could have been if our leaders had balls?

-Ignore the LHN and do the best we can with what we got?

What do you think?
SoftwareInventorDude
12:48p, 7/15/11
A
I believe our leaders will do what is right if enough aggie money has their back.

It's about alumni support of the BOR.

Also, realize the BOR is likely in flux anyway because a new governor is likely.

So they really have much less to lose doing the right thing this go around.
IBombedTheMoon
12:52p, 7/15/11
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AG
Tl;dr and judging from your other post I'm probably better for it
AlexNguyen
12:52p, 7/15/11
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Set yourself up for the future, whatever that may mean, by

* winning football games - A&M really needs to go 10-2 this season to continue to build upon last season's breakout success
* selling out all your games which means eventually
* you can expand Kyle Field to > 100,000
* exploring any and all revenue streams including sponsorship and a Big 12 TV network
* embrace a leadership role in the Big 12 and draw the Red Raiders, Bears, and Cowboys close to your bosom - you'll find yourself in that much a better negotiating position if you have a few guys in your posse
* keep your options open - the SEC isn't the only good option out there
AughtThree
12:53p, 7/15/11
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AG
I'm officially a Sports Illustrated man now.
Cardboardboxer
12:54p, 7/15/11
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In order for our leaders to "do the right thing" the next step would have to be outright civil war in the Aggie ranks- Old Army vs New Army- to purge away those who believe that being tied to tu (and play them in annual games) is more important than our dignity.

I am all for an Aggie Civil War, but not yet. I think if it happened now Old Army would win again, just like last summer. I believe that it will take another 10 years for enough of Old Army to die off (and our dignity being lost) before we as a fanbase would tolerate not having anything to saw-off.

So any big action like a SEC move is years down the road. I am wondering what Aggies think we should do today, right now!
10PennyNail
12:56p, 7/15/11
A
AG
quote:
* keep your options open - the SEC isn't the only good option out there

Actually it is except maybe as independant. no other conference has the same or better level of exposure and still a fit for out culture and location.
AlexNguyen
1:03p, 7/15/11
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No doubt the SEC is the BEST option based on money, location, and lack of Texas, but I believe there are other good options as well. What if UT goes independent like many here persist in believing? Heck, add a few replacement teams, and A&M instantly becomes one of the top 2 Big Dogs in a BCS conference. You get what you want (no UT) and you didn't even have to leave home for it.

[This message has been edited by AlexNguyen (edited 7/15/2011 1:04p).]
West Point Aggie
1:04p, 7/15/11
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AG
SEC or ACC are the only options...

PAC whatever? NEVER happening
B1G they only want ND or the steers...they do not want A&M

I have yet to hear ESiPN explain how they can possibly be objective in any coverage of college athletics when they are engaged in intercourse with tu?!? (case in point, tu's appearance in ANY pre-season top 25, game day...and so on!)
Cardboardboxer
1:05p, 7/15/11
H
AlexNguyen you are basically picking the last option- "Ignore the LHN and do the best we can with what we got?"

There are many wise Aggies who are big fans of this plan. The idea is that after a certain point (once you have the top-notch facilities, upgraded stadium, etc.) money can 't help a football program until the time that players can be paid. Therefore we should do our best to absorb the extra financial advantages of this situation and build ourselves up as much as the situation will allow.

Personally I have no beefs with this plan except for the idea of joining a Big 12 Network- I would much rather we keep third tier rights and try to monetize them ourselves on the internet. That way we can seem like we are "cutting edge" while avoiding the pride hurt when the Big 12 Network is worth less than the LHN is.

My issue is that it seems many Aggies won't be happy with such an arrangement. This offseason is a prime example, we own all the scoreboards but we are miserable because of what the sips are doing on paper. We will become miserable again when cable and satellite network start announcing LHN coverage this fall, and we will be miserable next offseason when ESPiN does some super-trick to get two conference games on the network.

Hence my question- I would love a "third way" in which we still better ourselves but we feel like we are "doing something" about this LHN.
AlexNguyen
1:22p, 7/15/11
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quote:

AlexNguyen you are basically picking the last option- "Ignore the LHN and do the best we can with what we got?"



Not really. You can't ignore the network. You have to study it carefully even if it is only to copy/improve upon the blueprint in the near future. And in the meantime, if you've got the balls and you really think the network means UT and A&M are in a state of war against each other, you work to hinder and undermine the channel in any way you can.

But that's really separate from the discussion of what you can do INTERNALLY yourselves to improve for the next round of cataclysmic change. You're currently not selling out every game - that needs to change and fortunately that's some fans actually can do something about it.

quote:

There are many wise Aggies who are big fans of this plan. The idea is that after a certain point (once you have the top-notch facilities, upgraded stadium, etc.) money can 't help a football program until the time that players can be paid. Therefore we should do our best to absorb the extra financial advantages of this situation and build ourselves up as much as the situation will allow.



Negative. You make all the money you can while you can. An expansion of Kyle Field will be $50,000,000 plus and a project taking at least 1 or 2 seasons. You needed to line up the commitments already, if you want to time the expansion with any move to the SEC in the near future.

quote:

Personally I have no beefs with this plan except for the idea of joining a Big 12 Network- I would much rather we keep third tier rights and try to monetize them ourselves on the internet. That way we can seem like we are "cutting edge" while avoiding the pride hurt when the Big 12 Network is worth less than the LHN is.



Take whatever path gets you more money. If you believe you are short-timers in the Big 12 anyway, who cares about the 'pride' issue. It's a foolish consideration at best. Get all the dough you can to bankroll your move elsewhere. There may be financial penalties to pay the Big 12 for leaving, and it's doubtful that any new league you join will grant you full shares immediately upon joining.

quote:

My issue is that it seems many Aggies won't be happy with such an arrangement. This offseason is a prime example, we own all the scoreboards but we are miserable because of what the sips are doing on paper. We will become miserable again when cable and satellite network start announcing LHN coverage this fall, and we will be miserable next offseason when ESPiN does some super-trick to get two conference games on the network.

Hence my question- I would love a "third way" in which we still better ourselves but we feel like we are "doing something" about this LHN.



Without trying to be rude, I would suggest this is something which you or people like you just need to get over. I understand it's hard to stomach when your neighbor is always showing his new car or new fence and rubbing your face in it. Nonetheless, it's unhealthy to always be comparing yourself to an external measure. I think the Ags would be just fine if they focused on improving by their own internal standard with a overall strategy of being elsewhere if that's what they really want. By the way, I think that's what your leaders are doing - and that's why it frustrates the fans here at TexAgs, because it's the fans that are constantly comparing wieners.
Bilbo Aggins
1:24p, 7/15/11
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I love it when whorns come here with their "advice."

A starving rat is more trustworthy than a whorn.
Hellraiser97
1:27p, 7/15/11
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quote:
So the Sips finally won- they got us to back down from the SEC (our only leverage) based on "trust," then abused that trust by starting the LHN and by using every bit of their power to make sure that network has unfair advantages (high school games, Big 12 games, etc.).


I stopped reading after this. So given that it was well known by your admin (and everyone else) that we intended to start our own network as long as two years ago, how exactly did we abuse your trust?

Hook 'Em Horns

Hellraiser97

--

"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas." -- Davy Crockett
AgFromTheProjects
1:30p, 7/15/11
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AG
And again, alex nguyen does not win. Don't pay any attention to this dude, he's just a sip whorn who claims he still likes the aggies. Best option here is to start another thread without this clown in it, or just ignore him
MaxPower
1:39p, 7/15/11
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quote:
I stopped reading after this. So given that it was well known by your admin (and everyone else) that we intended to start our own network as long as two years ago, how exactly did we abuse your trust?
Pushing for conference games on the network. Using it as an unfair recruiting tool be televising high school games. That's just a couple.

Let me ask you this whorn, what about the actions taken by tu the past year shows any commitment to the conference? That's really all the A&M BOR and admin need to consider. The bottom line is you guys aren't trustworthy and don't stick up for conference members. Now, I don't entirely blaim you because I think there are a bunch of turds in this conference that bring little to nothing (see baylor, kansas state, iowa st), but that's all the more reason why it just isn't a good conference. You have the big boys that want to abuse the little guys and little guys that are too little to nut up. I'd much rather be in a conference where most of the teams are big enough to carry their own weight and realize the value of the conference as a whole.
Jefe
1:42p, 7/15/11
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quote:
You have the big boys that want to abuse the little guys and little guys that are too little to nut up.


Texas wants to abuse everybody.
mpaggie06
1:44p, 7/15/11
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AG
quote:
Set yourself up for the future, whatever that may mean, by

* winning football games - A&M really needs to go 10-2 this season to continue to build upon last season's breakout success
* selling out all your games which means eventually
* you can expand Kyle Field to > 100,000
* exploring any and all revenue streams including sponsorship and a Big 12 TV network
* embrace a leadership role in the Big 12 and draw the Red Raiders, Bears, and Cowboys close to your bosom - you'll find yourself in that much a better negotiating position if you have a few guys in your posse
* keep your options open - the SEC isn't the only good option out there


For a guy that just saw his team/empire go 5-7 against some pretty weak competition last year, you sure do have a way of talking down to us lowly Ags. Thanks for your kind words. We now know that we were wrong to ever think of speaking before being spoken to.
Hellraiser97
1:46p, 7/15/11
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quote:
Pushing for conference games on the network. Using it as an unfair recruiting tool be televising high school games. That's just a couple.


Hmm, I don't see where we pushed for a conference game to go on it. I know ESPN did, and I don't think we objected, but I don't remember that. High school games? I'm sure you're admin never thought of that, so I guess that's fair. Oh well.

quote:
Let me ask you this whorn,
See this is the problem. You guys can't even refer to us without trying to throw out insults. Where's the brotherly love?

quote:
what about the actions taken by tu the past year shows any commitment to the conference? That's really all the A&M BOR and admin need to consider.


What action has A&M taken?

quote:
The bottom line is you guys aren't trustworthy and don't stick up for conference members.


Really? I believe we were one of the two schools that refused to accept the little 5's portion of the NU/CU exit fees. A&M can't say the same. Who are you sticking up for?

quote:
Now, I don't entirely blaim you because I think there are a bunch of turds in this conference that bring little to nothing (see baylor, kansas state, iowa st), but that's all the more reason why it just isn't a good conference. You have the big boys that want to abuse the little guys and little guys that are too little to nut up.


Given your insistence on being paid the $20MM before it even materialized, your willingness to accept the little 5's bribe from above, and your stance against equal revenue sharing, I don't see you guys standing up for anyone but yourselves.


quote:
I'd much rather be in a conference where most of the teams are big enough to carry their own weight and realize the value of the conference as a whole.


That's fine, but then your issue is
1) With the little 5
2) Your perceived inferiority to us

Hook 'Em Horns

Hellraiser97

--

"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas." -- Davy Crockett
heddy Lamarr
2:27p, 7/15/11
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quote:
Your perceived inferiority to us


don't think so captain 5-7.
Cardboardboxer
2:44p, 7/15/11
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quote:

Not really. You can't ignore the network. You have to study it carefully even if it is only to copy/improve upon the blueprint in the near future.


As I have said before, I don't think we could start our own network- our brand is too unpalatable for the masses. I personally think that is a good thing though.

quote:

And in the meantime, if you've got the balls and you really think the network means UT and A&M are in a state of war against each other, you work to hinder and undermine the channel in any way you can.


There is the rub. If we do anything (boycott cable companies, boycott advertisers on LHN) then the effort turns into yet another thing that sips can prop up as A&M's "inferiority complex."

I was more hoping we could focus our energies on things that we can control, such as our plans going forward.

quote:

Without trying to be rude, I would suggest this is something which you or people like you just need to get over.


How can you spend so much time on an Aggie forum and think for one second this is even a remote possibility?

quote:

Nonetheless, it's unhealthy to always be comparing yourself to an external measure.


Actually the thought process from many Aggies is that our obsession with tu is what has kept us from turning into Texas State or Texas Tech. tu has made clear its intentions to dominate the state as a singular brand, and yall would have completely succeeded decades ago if us Aggies weren't wholly focused on chipping away your advantages whenever we can. Our issue is that with ESPN getting in the mix, yall now have enough power to make our efforts irrelevant.

My solution would be to ignore the LHN and put money and effort into a online "Aggie Network" that streams to Roku boxes and iPhones. Unfortunately though I don't run the ship, so we will probably have to suffer the loss of pride in a Big 12 Network that will bring each program a fraction of what the LHN brings yall.

Street Fighter
2:44p, 7/15/11
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AG
Hellraiser97, once you peel away fluff, the *****s in the state legislature are why we accepted this abortion of a conference deal.
AggieSouth06
2:47p, 7/15/11
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Cardboard - Not to be contrarian, but a weak brand is never a good thing. I know we like our "uniqueness," but there are clever people out there who can create strategies that build our national identity while protecting our internal identity.
Hellraiser97
2:47p, 7/15/11
A
No doubt. If the legislature didn't get in the way, you'd have been in the SEC 15 years ago and we'd have been in the Big 10 or Pac10.

Hook 'Em Horns

Hellraiser97

--

"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas." -- Davy Crockett
AlexNguyen
3:14p, 7/15/11
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quote:

As I have said before, I don't think we could start our own network- our brand is too unpalatable for the masses. I personally think that is a good thing though.



You don't necessarily do your own channel all by yourself. What about a OU/OSU/A&M channel? I'd be shocked if someone in your AD hasn't at least run some guess numbers to try to see if this wouldn't be a good idea.

quote:

There is the rub. If we do anything (boycott cable companies, boycott advertisers on LHN) then the effort turns into yet another thing that sips can prop up as A&M's "inferiority complex."

I was more hoping we could focus our energies on things that we can control, such as our plans going forward.


Why care what the fans will say to goad each other? If this channel is really the nuclear bomb you seem to think it is, you'd be crazy to not try to derail it any way you can.



quote:

How can you spend so much time on an Aggie forum and think for one second this is even a remote possibility?


Because you don't have a choice as a regular fan. Unless you contribute in the hundreds of thousands each year, no one is going to pay attention to you in the athletic department. You have little to no opportunity to really impact any decision making, any moves your school has or makes.

So why choke yourself up in fury over constant comparisons to what the 'sips' are doing? If you trust your leaders, be content as they implement whatever vision they have. If you don't trust your leaders, well, that's an another issue entirely that has little to do with your 'friends from the state capital'.


quote:

Actually the thought process from many Aggies is that our obsession with tu is what has kept us from turning into Texas State or Texas Tech. tu has made clear its intentions to dominate the state as a singular brand, and yall would have completely succeeded decades ago if us Aggies weren't wholly focused on chipping away your advantages whenever we can.



I disagree. Again, you are too focused on Texas. Texas A&M has loads of its own resources. Almost any other school in the conference would swap financials & facilities with you right now. You're not the scrappy underdog, even though you seem to revel in that masquerade. In fact, you're one of the haves in the league and until recently, you've underperformed given the resources available to you.

quote:

Our issue is that with ESPN getting in the mix, yall now have enough power to make our efforts irrelevant.


We'll have more money in pockets. More publicity and exposure inside the state, possibly beyond as well. Whether that translates into 'power', whatever that means, remains to be seen.

Certainly we'll be able to hire the best when Mack Brown leaves which is nice. Urban Meyer, Chris Peterson, we're looking at you.

quote:

My solution would be to ignore the LHN and put money and effort into a online "Aggie Network" that streams to Roku boxes and iPhones. Unfortunately though I don't run the ship, so we will probably have to suffer the loss of pride in a Big 12 Network that will bring each program a fraction of what the LHN brings yall.



Like I said, forget about the pride thing. It's fools' gold. The advantage to having a network channel even if it's as only part of a Big 12 grouping is that you will likely earn 'unearned' income by becoming part of a channel package. With an online membership model like Netflix for example, every subscription you get will be one you earn the hard way.




[This message has been edited by AlexNguyen (edited 7/15/2011 3:16p).]
bigmoneytexas
3:24p, 7/15/11
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Why can't we just get our own network?
MaxPower
3:30p, 7/15/11
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quote:
Really? I believe we were one of the two schools that refused to accept the little 5's portion of the NU/CU exit fees. A&M can't say the same. Who are you sticking up for?
Right. And Nebraska left because they couldn't play nice with us just like Arkie before them. You are aware the t-sips are the ONLY team in major conference history to run off not one but two teams from a conference. But don't you worry, keep thinking that texas university is just being picked on by the mean old Aggies. I'm sure if you ask the team that winds up getting stuffed on your network that question you'll get the same response....its those damn Aggies ruining this place.
Hellraiser97
3:42p, 7/15/11
A
quote:
Right. And Nebraska left because they couldn't play nice with us just like Arkie before them. You are aware the t-sips are the ONLY team in major conference history to run off not one but two teams from a conference.


Umm, what? We didn't run off Arky any more than you did.

quote:
But don't you worry, keep thinking that texas university is just being picked on by the mean old Aggies. I'm sure if you ask the team that winds up getting stuffed on your network that question you'll get the same response....its those damn Aggies ruining this place.


Facts are the facts. You guys are in it for yourselves just as much as anyone else.

Hook 'Em Horns

Hellraiser97

--

"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas." -- Davy Crockett
Magician GOB
4:25p, 7/15/11
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Please get over the fact there will be a LHN. They created this monster and all the whining, letter-writing, fake boycott talk, BS won't stop the train.

Great move for them.

WE need to move on. Sound like whiny babies.
Randall Watson
4:38p, 7/15/11
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quote:

So the Sips finally won- they got us to back down from the SEC (our only leverage) based on "trust," then abused that trust by starting the LHN


We have been very publicly stating our intention to start the LHN for over 5 years now.

Dollar Bill even wrote about it claiming it would not be financially viable.
Cardboardboxer
6:01p, 7/15/11
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quote:
Cardboard - Not to be contrarian, but a weak brand is never a good thing. I know we like our "uniqueness," but there are clever people out there who can create strategies that build our national identity while protecting our internal identity.


Its not like we have a weak brand due to a lack of trying. The school has had many marketing campaigns in the past done by "clever people." Just no one is clever enough to make mediocre football success (in a state obsessed with it) and unpalatable traditions "sexy."

I am happy that our brand is almost non-existant, as that leaves us to be a blank slate when one day we get our Mack Brown who then rebrands us in whatever image he choses. The tu brand is all fake- it is centered on cowboys, steers, rednecks and country music when tu and Austin are both full of hipster kids that despise all those things.

I am hoping one day we can make our own "fake" brand that is appealing. If I had my choice I would go all-in on the military thing considering the fact that the economic draft makes military stuff overlap greatly with targeting minorities, but if that talented person in the future has a better idea I support it 100%.

And if nothing happens and our brand remains crap I support that too. We have enough resources and alums to survive without a strong brand, and considering how semi-pro the NCAA is getting with things like TLN it is kinda nice being one of the few large "pure" programs left even if that means less eventually success on the field.
Cardboardboxer
6:09p, 7/15/11
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quote:
If you don't trust your leaders, well, that's an another issue entirely that has little to do with your 'friends from the state capital'.


Unless they are one and the same, as they are in our case (Perry).

quote:
Texas A&M has loads of its own resources. Almost any other school in the conference would swap financials & facilities with you right now. You're not the scrappy underdog, even though you seem to revel in that masquerade.


You are right we are not the underdog, programs like Baylor are.

With that said, this is the largest state in the country (population-wise) that has a single dominant team. In other large states (Florida, Cali) the power of that state is split amongst many teams (UF, FSU, Miami).

That fact is what drives our attitude- Texas can support more than one major team but tu is doing everything it can to prevent that from happening.

quote:

Like I said, forget about the pride thing. It's fools' gold. The advantage to having a network channel even if it's as only part of a Big 12 grouping is that you will likely earn 'unearned' income by becoming part of a channel package. With an online membership model like Netflix for example, every subscription you get will be one you earn the hard way.


That is the point of my thread- when it comes to the "arm's race" you won. Period. End of story.

Therefore I have hopes that our leaders will instead try to make sure A&M has "enough" while making decisions that are in the best interests of our alums and students instead of what makes the most money. Sure an online service won't make the big bucks, but it will help cast A&M as a future-thinking program and will give Aggies worldwide access to our athletics. That is worth more to me than bags of money.

Cardboardboxer
6:13p, 7/15/11
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quote:
We have been very publicly stating our intention to start the LHN for over 5 years now.


Great way to misquote me. My beef isn't with the TLN, but with the things ESPiN and tu are doing to make it succeed that no conference members signed off on- Big 12 games on TLN, high school games on there, etc.

BB and MANY Aggies all thought that TLN wouldn't be a success based upon what its original plan was- just tu non-football sports and one non-conference game a year. Obviously ESPiN agreed because they grabbed content that the network was originally never supposed to have.

Basically we trusted the sips to have a network with parameters they stated, then once it was made they said "ok lets stretch this to as far as we can." That is were the trust was lost.
MW_111
6:58p, 7/15/11
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You talk of trust and then every word is "let's move to the SEC!"? Trust and integrity won't be the first words off of the rest of members the Big 12's lips...
viva torrente
7:00p, 7/15/11
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quote:
Trust and integrity won't be the first words off of the rest of members the Big 12's lips...


Given what tu is about to do to the conference with cowtv, the rest of the conference should wish us gone to another conference.

They know cowtv is the road to serfdom.

Want to see your team play? You will have to subscribe to cowtv.
E K Gill
7:15p, 7/15/11
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AG


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