In my quest for a new family hauler, this board provided some great options (thank you!). We've been to test drive a bunch of options and I'm stuck in several dealers' relentless CRM cycles.

My wife's favorite was.... (drumroll)..... the Kia Carnival.

It checks a lot of our boxes including comfort, price range, technology, etc. The one big EXCEPT is all-wheel-drive (AWD).

Our AWD use-case is once a year we drive from Dallas to Taos, NM or Pagosa Springs, CO for a family ski trip. Currently, I've been renting 4WD or AWD cars on Turo for this trip (for $800-1000/trip) which works but was a major goal for wanting to get a new car and replace our old FWD Sienna.

Thinking about our trips recently, it feels like every other year I'm super glad to have AWD and others I feel like our FWD Sienna would have been fine. Tough to know until you're there what the conditions will be. There's also the occasional needs in Dallas when there's ice or snow or heavy rain.

I'm stuck because the Carnival checks so many other boxes. I can't seem to shake this one though. Am I over-thinking it?

Our next option, likely a Tahoe or Yukon, is way more expensive. Financially, I'm better off renting Turo's for our trips but I don't want to anymore. Bah...I don't know!

Picard said:

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Your solution is obvious. Take your ski trip in the summer.

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Haha, awesome

I've looked at these as an alternative to chains for one off uses. Anyone try these?

AutoSock 697 Snow Socks for Car, SUV, & Pickup - Better Alternative to Tire Chains (Pack of 2) https://a.co/d/fkfuoz2

I love the stability of awd but if you're only concerned about annual road trips, buy chains at Walmart and return them if you don't use them.

I've done that several times after picking up rentals in Denver.

Drip99 said:

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Ski trips to wolf creek need AWD and its better to have it and not need it vs. need it and not have it

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Only been there once and that's the only time I've used chains.

Learn how to install before having to do it in the snow on the side of the road.

AWD is great in the rain too.

If you're trying to do a financial analysis of renting versus buying, I'd consider this:

• As stated, your annual 4WD rental is $800-$1,000
• Most 4WD vehicles are a $3,000-$4,000 more expensive than their 2WD counterparts.

So 4 years of rentals and you're at the same spend either way.

Will the 4WD vehicle last longer than 4 years?
Of course it will. So, if you can hang on to it for more than 4 years, you're now getting ahead financially.

And one of the things that I value a lot is - possession / availability.

If you remember what we saw with rental cars over the past few years, prices have been really high and availability has been really low.

So if you already own it, it's yours and you can decide what you do with it - versus being at the mercy of the rental car company to actually have what you signed up for on the day you expect to pick it up.

HollywoodBQ said:

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AWD is great in the rain too.

If you're trying to do a financial analysis of renting versus buying, I'd consider this:

• As stated, your annual 4WD rental is $800-$1,000
• Most 4WD vehicles are a $3,000-$4,000 more expensive than their 2WD counterparts.

So 4 years of rentals and you're at the same spend either way.

Will the 4WD vehicle last longer than 4 years?
Of course it will. So, if you can hang on to it for more than 4 years, you're now getting ahead financially.

And one of the things that I value a lot is - possession / availability.

If you remember what we saw with rental cars over the past few years, prices have been really high and availability has been really low.

So if you already own it, it's yours and you can decide what you do with it - versus being at the mercy of the rental car company to actually have what you signed up for on the day you expect to pick it up.

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AWD/4x4 resale is higher lots of times.

Complete Idiot said:

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If you are trying to get moving on a snowy/icy public road and find 2 drive wheels isn't getting it done, it's probably not a good idea to be out driving on that road anyway.

2WD will brake and turn just as well but harder to get traction to move forward is all. I might be wrong in that with all locking differentials a 4wd might turn a bit better?

I think having 4wd is mainly for people regularly driving off pavement and not getting enough traction with 2wd, or want it "just because" (me) even if not truly needed.

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Not always the case I'm sure, but my Audi, WRXs, LX570, and MYP feel much more locked in turning than my Tundra or Civic Si did and you don't get the FWD losing traction and on acceleration through turns.

drumboy said:

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Complete Idiot said:

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If you are trying to get moving on a snowy/icy public road and find 2 drive wheels isn't getting it done, it's probably not a good idea to be out driving on that road anyway.

2WD will brake and turn just as well but harder to get traction to move forward is all. I might be wrong in that with all locking differentials a 4wd might turn a bit better?

I think having 4wd is mainly for people regularly driving off pavement and not getting enough traction with 2wd, or want it "just because" (me) even if not truly needed.

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Not always the case I'm sure, but my Audi, WRXs, LX570, and MYP feel much more locked in turning than my Tundra or Civic Si did and you don't get the FWD losing traction and on acceleration through turns.

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Fair point, I guess I am assuming turns under no power, as most turns in snow and ice you slow down for. But accelerating through or from a turn I would agree with you.

When we lived in CO we would always swap on snow tires for half the year. Well worth it.

Since we moved back to TX, I went ahead and put on a set of Michelin LTX AT2 tires on our 4WD Highlander as we still drive back 1-2x per year to ski. No substitute for a good set of snow tires but I have been happy with the first 25k miles I have put on them.

If you had the room to store a set of snow tires, it sounds like it would pay themselves off in one year based on your rental history. May be overkill for a week or two out of the year, but might as well leave them on all winter and extend the life of your other tires. Just a thought outside the box if being prepared for winter roads is important to you, even if overkill.

StinkyPinky said:

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Over thinking it. I live in Minnesota and have come to appreciate you only need a FWD to drive in the snow. AWD doesn't offer you significant benefit in this instance and if anything just adds complexity/potential maintenance risk. I wouldn't let the non-AWD hold you back if everything else checks the box.

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Are you driving up and down a mountain everyday? The OP will be going from 7500' to 10,300' over ~15 miles daily to ski during his trip at the location that gets the most snow in Colorado on avg. This is not the same as driving to HEB during a snow storm. My brother n law stalled out in 2wd highlander on the way up and proceeded to get stuck 2 additional times during the trip....and this was over spring break. I ski there every year and would not take a 2WD...I would just rent if it were me or maybe look at AWD sienna or oddy.

StinkyPinky said:

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Over thinking it. I live in Minnesota and have come to appreciate you only need a FWD to drive in the snow. AWD doesn't offer you significant benefit in this instance and if anything just adds complexity/potential maintenance risk. I wouldn't let the non-AWD hold you back if everything else checks the box.

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First ski trip w/ my now wife I got stuck in a small snow bank on in incline doing a 3 point turnaround in some small dodge fwd rental in Angel Fire.

Of course we were going back because she forgot something.

Over-thinking it. If you're sold on the vehicle otherwise, just get a set of tire chains (cables actually) and take those on your ski trips. Newer styles are much easier to put on than the old ones. Or use the Turo option.

Aggie Athlete Involved said:

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I pass many stuck 2wd cars on i70 on the bad days. Awd with good tires or 2wd with snow tires/chains if you must. Don't be that guy with your family stuck on the pass in freezing weather backing up traffic. We have ski runs to hit!

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Because in Colorado they don't check S on I-70.

You can't get away with that in Nevada/NorCal on I-80 or US50. They won't let you pass the chain inspection checkpoint if you don't have the proper equipment.

On the other hand, during the winter of 2022-2023, US395 was closed due to snow twice when I tried to drive from Los Angeles to Reno so I never even got to a chain inspection checkpoint.

Trying to re-sell a 2wd version of a truck or SUV that has an AWD/4wD option available sucks. Everyone in the used market wants the AWD...it will pay for itself

AWD, swap on to snow tires if you can afford to for the trip.

I've had a 2wd in CO on a bad day before. Once was enough. Even FWD, trying to start on any incline in a little slush/snow/ice can be an impossible task. Every season someone blocks I70 doing it or getting in a wreck trying to get by without chains/AWD or both, multiple times.

FIDO*98* said:

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Trying to re-sell a 2wd version of a truck or SUV that has an AWD/4wD option available sucks. Everyone in the used market wants the AWD...it will pay for itself

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Problem here is that the Kia Carnival that the OP wants does not have a AWD/4x4 option....yet.

Drip99 said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Trying to re-sell a 2wd version of a truck or SUV that has an AWD/4wD option available sucks. Everyone in the used market wants the AWD...it will pay for itself

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Problem here is that the Kia Carnival that the OP wants does not have a AWD/4x4 option....yet.

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Thanks for that. I didn't even realize we were talking about a Minivan. I'll check my man card at the door on the way out.

For the OP, I'd take a look at a 4WD Ford Explorer. That seems to be in the range of what you're looking for.

Once you start getting into the Yukon/Tahoe range, you might as well go all out and look at the Ford Expedition. My Expy has been doing the job for 25 years including putting 2 kids through college. And plenty of ski trips in Colorado.

Drip99 said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Trying to re-sell a 2wd version of a truck or SUV that has an AWD/4wD option available sucks. Everyone in the used market wants the AWD...it will pay for itself

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Problem here is that the Kia Carnival that the OP wants does not have a AWD/4x4 option....yet.

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bam02 said:

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Buy the Carnival and send it to Quigley

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I used to look at the Pre Owned page on the Quigley site on a regular basis. Over 10, 15 years ago anyway.

Make sure you get the VIN and get an insurance quote. That could very well kill the whole deal and make it better to still rent. Rates are outrageous.

Fly and rent a Subaru

Or go to the beach instead