http://austincountynewsonline.com/bombshell-senators-find-tolls-charged-roads-paid/

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Camino Columbia in Laredo, Cesar Chavez in El Paso, SH 130 (the state-operated northern 49 miles from Georgetown to Mustang Ridge) and SH 45 in the Austin area, the Katy Freeway managed toll lanes and the entire Metro High Occupancy Toll (HOT) lanes in Houston, parts of the Grand Parkway around Houston (segments 1-2A), the DFW connector, and the I-30 managed toll lanes (in fact most all of the managed toll lanes) in Dallas all have no debt and should have the tolls come down immediately. Every one of those lanes was built with state and federal funds, no debt is owed, and yet officials charge tolls simply to profit off of congestion and as a means to manipulate people and traffic.

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I-10 has a lot of wasted space. Get rid of the bullcrap and make that a 8 lane freeway will be better for traffic.

TxDOT sold $1.4 billion in bonds to finance SH 130 in 2002. Not sure how it doesn't have any debt?

There was talk a couple of years ago about the project not being able to cover the debt payment.

They should disperse the profit equally to all Texas residents. Then all our problems would be solved.

#facebookLibLogic

http://www.texasstandard.org/stories/how-a-toll-road-in-central-texas-went-bankrupt/

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Two options:

1) Pay tolls and that money goes to build other roads

2) Increase taxes and that goes to build roads.


Those are your options.

~egon

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What if where we're going we don't need roads?

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I agree with that.

But with increasing fuel inefficiencies, you are losing money. People using less gas. Gas sales are the same, but you have more cars.


Also, when the taxes were originally levied, it was essentially 20% of the price Last Tax Hike (1991). Now it is not as much. And last I checked, construction costs (materials, manpower, etc.) have gone up. 1991 Gas Price

And going with the real world, you tend to spend more money on maintenance as roads get old. There are quite a bit of roads that are past their useful life. Replacing them will be expensive. Revenue by source for TX



I think we should adjust the gas tax up, since the price has come down, and use that for roads. Remember, when the Beltway was built, it was just farmlands. Trying to build something like that again, or even expanding the current Beltway, costs astronomically more due to the land being way more expensive.



But if flying cars come, we can get rid of roads all together, I agree.

~egon

And because I have a little time:

TxDOT Budget

TxDOT asked for ~$18B for it's budget. Gas tax brought in, last year.....





$3.3 billion.




Still a little short (look at previous post for data for collections).


You don't bring enough in from fuel taxes to cover roads.

~egon

edit: originally said $10B; correct answer is $18B. Page 70 of this link.

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I am for 3, which is to use the revenue generated by the gas tax more efficiently.

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Dr. Dr. already hit on this, but even if you used 100% of the gas tax for highway construction, it wouldn't come anywhere close to funding. Most figures put it at 33% of road construction. To that extent, Texas is pretty average across the nation. Only Delaware draws in over 50% of the cost of their highways for their gas tax.

What's a big reason for the road being a mess? It's the poorly maintained pile of junk that is on fire in the main lanes or that just blew a tire. Because of that, I'm all for tolls on highways. It's like cover charge on the bar. Do they really need that $5? No. It's there to keep out the people that are bothered by spending an extra $5.

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What I will never get are the people that will bother to pay but won't get a tag and will sit in those half a mile long lines on BW8 to pay $1.75.

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They are the reason for the massive barricades on BW8 now leading into the toll booths. Make those idiots commit early so they don't tie up the EZTag lanes at the last minute.

With no debt, you'd think they could afford a flyover from 8 East to HTR south. Having to exit and deal with that clusterf light is a disaster.

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With no debt, you'd think they could afford a flyover from 8 East to HTR south. Having to exit and deal with that clusterf light is a disaster.

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Amen. I assume it's not monetary reasoning though. I think they don't want people on 8 to take the HTR and leave it for those coming down from the woodlands.

C'mon Doc, an $18B budget? State agencies are prone to always ask for more than they need since they know that their request will be trimmed during appropriations. Once they get more than they need, they then proceed to spend more than they should under the use it or lose it philosophy. I might go for a little 1, a little 2 and a large dose of 3 in the end.

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What I will never get are the people that will bother to pay but won't get a tag and will sit in those half a mile long lines on BW8 to pay $1.75.

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They are the reason for the massive barricades on BW8 now leading into the toll booths. Make those idiots commit early so they don't tie up the EZTag lanes at the last minute.

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Just a WAG but I bet HCTRA has plans to make BW8 EZTag only in the near future. That will be a fun project to live through.

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Two options:

1) Pay tolls and that money goes to build other roads

2) Increase taxes and that goes to build roads.


Those are your options.

~egon

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No, they are not the two only options.

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Anyone remember the few weeks after Ike when the tolls were free? I'll pay the tolls after that disaster

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This. Those tolls keep them from being a charlie foxtrot on any given day.

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What fuggin toll road are you on?

West beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
North beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
South beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
East beltway? Getting there
Westpark tollway? Charlie Foxtrot
Ft. Bent Toll Road? Not enough people yet
99 between 59 and 10? Getting,to be a Charlie Foxtrot quick
Rest of 99? Dont,drive it, bit guessing if its not, the CF is mere months away

Fuggin 18 wheelers, concrete trucks, busses and other large commercial vehicles should not be on the toll road. Neither should Asians, Canadians or Mexicans for that matter. Canadians,on motorcycles are perfectly OK, because they universally haul serious ass.

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I don't commute on them, so I really only deal with them after 6p or on the weekends.

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Anyone remember the few weeks after Ike when the tolls were free? I'll pay the tolls after that disaster

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This. Those tolls keep them from being a charlie foxtrot on any given day.

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What fuggin toll road are you on?

West beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
North beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
South beltway? Charlie Foxtrot
East beltway? Getting there
Westpark tollway? Charlie Foxtrot
Ft. Bent Toll Road? Not enough people yet
99 between 59 and 10? Getting,to be a Charlie Foxtrot quick
Rest of 99? Dont,drive it, bit guessing if its not, the CF is mere months away

Fuggin 18 wheelers, concrete trucks, busses and other large commercial vehicles should not be on the toll road. Neither should Asians, Canadians or Mexicans for that matter. Canadians,on motorcycles are perfectly OK, because they universally haul serious ass.

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Ft Bend Toll Rd is and will continue to be empty because it doesn't go anywhere. There are plenty of people down there to use it, but it's only a few miles, and ends into 90 a few miles from anywhere a toll road commuter would want to go. If it actually went into downtown, or at least made its way to 610, it would be slammed, but unless you are taking it 3 miles from hwy 6 to the beltway, which still makes you exit and navigate the light at the beltway, it's completely useless. Very poorly planned toll road.

I thought it has always been proposed that fort bend will reach 610 one day.

That's the pipe dream, but it'll probably never be a reality for a very long time. 1) 610 can't handle all the traffic funneled from a Fort Bend Tollroad without expanding. 2) Any connector would have to take part of Westbury through eminent domain. Good luck with that.

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What I will never get are the people that will bother to pay but won't get a tag and will sit in those half a mile long lines on BW8 to pay $1.75.

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They are the reason for the massive barricades on BW8 now leading into the toll booths. Make those idiots commit early so they don't tie up the EZTag lanes at the last minute.

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Just a WAG but I bet HCTRA has plans to make BW8 EZTag only in the near future. That will be a fun project to live through.

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You must be new here.

HCTRA tried to make all of their roads cashless 10 years ago and there was some lolpoor adocate and the media that made a giant stink. Commissioners were sheeting their draws because they might lose an election.

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That's the pipe dream, but it'll probably never be a reality for a very long time. 1) 610 can't handle all the traffic funneled from a Fort Bend Tollroad without expanding. 2) Any connector would have to take part of Westbury through eminent domain. Good luck with that.

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I think FBTR(HCTRA owned) will finish the connection to 610 when the FBGPTR crosses the Brazos and connects to FBTR on the south end. Less than 10 Years, especially with the parish coal power plant being closed. It will be the next Pearland.

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What I will never get are the people that will bother to pay but won't get a tag and will sit in those half a mile long lines on BW8 to pay $1.75.

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They are the reason for the massive barricades on BW8 now leading into the toll booths. Make those idiots commit early so they don't tie up the EZTag lanes at the last minute.

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Just a WAG but I bet HCTRA has plans to make BW8 EZTag only in the near future. That will be a fun project to live through.

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You must be new here.

HCTRA tried to make all of their roads cashless 10 years ago and there was some lolpoor adocate and the media that made a giant stink. Commissioners were sheeting their draws because they might lose an election.

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Yeah I've only been here for 41 years. Notice GP is tag only, Hardy just went EZTag only. And HCTRA rolled out a cash reloadable EZTag. All signs point to the booths coming down at some point on BW8. There is no compelling reason to keep both the overhead and the traffic bottlenecks caused by the booths.

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That's the pipe dream, but it'll probably never be a reality for a very long time. 1) 610 can't handle all the traffic funneled from a Fort Bend Tollroad without expanding. 2) Any connector would have to take part of Westbury through eminent domain. Good luck with that.

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Meh, make traffic bad enough somewhere, get TxDOT involved, politics, money is no object if you want to wait years, DONE! TxDOT is the king of eminent domain.

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That's the pipe dream, but it'll probably never be a reality for a very long time. 1) 610 can't handle all the traffic funneled from a Fort Bend Tollroad without expanding. 2) Any connector would have to take part of Westbury through eminent domain. Good luck with that.

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I think FBTR(HCTRA owned) will finish the connection to 610 when the FBGPTR crosses the Brazos and connects to FBTR on the south end. Less than 10 Years, especially with the parish coal power plant being closed. It will be the next Pearland.

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The plant at Smither's is being mothballed?

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What I will never get are the people that will bother to pay but won't get a tag and will sit in those half a mile long lines on BW8 to pay $1.75.

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They are the reason for the massive barricades on BW8 now leading into the toll booths. Make those idiots commit early so they don't tie up the EZTag lanes at the last minute.

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Just a WAG but I bet HCTRA has plans to make BW8 EZTag only in the near future. That will be a fun project to live through.

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You must be new here.

HCTRA tried to make all of their roads cashless 10 years ago and there was some lolpoor adocate and the media that made a giant stink. Commissioners were sheeting their draws because they might lose an election.

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Yeah I've only been here for 41 years. Notice GP is tag only, Hardy just went EZTag only. And HCTRA rolled out a cash reloadable EZTag. All signs point to the booths coming down at some point on BW8. There is no compelling reason to keep both the overhead and the traffic bottlenecks caused by the booths.

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The rest of HCTRA going EZ Tag only in the near future depends on what your definition of "near" is.

The GP is a TxDOT road, not a HCTRA facility. However, like TxDOT, any new HCTRA facilities are always going to be EZ Tag only (see Westpark, KML, 249)

As far as the Fort Bend being extended into downtown, the interchange at Hardy/Sam Houston Parkway as well as the Hardy downtown connector will be built before that extension is even given serious consideration. BTW, those two projects are roughly slated for ~2020 to start construction.

BW8 is nearing 30 years old (or is it there yet? '89 sticks in my head for some reason). So yes, "near" is very relative. I would count having plans at all as being "near".

Hardy is under HCTRA and was just converted what, 2 months ago? This summer has flown by so I can't remember exactly since I drive it every day. Like any entity, HCTRA wants to make more money. More cars flowing equals more money. Tag only increases flow, and rids HCTRA of paying all the overhead involved in operating the booths. They have been slowly converting the entrance/exit tolls to tag only over the years.

Cash traffic was ~10% of the total volume on the hardy. Those volumes are much higher on Sam Houston.

What you're likely to see isn't a full conversion, but instead modifications to the plazas (North, Central, and South) to get a 4th EZ Tag lane through in each direction while still maintaining the ability to collect cash in a few lanes.

The east side is EZtag only now and they are starting to make a bunch of the exits to be EZtag only.