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sinclair/love rezoning

8,246 Views | 56 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by JJxvi
Jules_Winnfield
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is the proposed rezoning pretty much a done deal?

the rezoning would eliminated anything east of TC jester, south of 610, west of durham, north of 17th from sinclair elementary and rezone them to Love
Alex Bregman
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AG
I'm not sure how final the zones are. It just seems like they wouldn't put out the proposed ones, piss everyone off, and then all of a sudden change them back.

I went to the public comment meeting. Shady Acres people were out in force complaining about being sent to Love. It also hurts Sinclair to lose Shady Acres and be given a slew of crappy apartments north of 610.
Jules_Winnfield
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Thanks, I've been trying to do as much research as I can since I just found out about it today.

Pretty much had decided on a house in shady acres this weekend until I got to work and a coworker mentioned that to me.

Lot Y Tailgate
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AG

LawAg05
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Seems to be part of an effort to clean up Stevens elementary. That place is a dump so they are redistributing some of those low income apartments that feed into it.

I'm in Oak forest and planning on leaving rather than sending my kids to Stevens that place is so bad.
Diggity
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Were a lot of people sending their kids to Sinlair in the first place? I didn't think it had a great reputation either.
Alex Bregman
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I don't have kids, but from what I hear from people who send their kids to Sinclair it has been improving quickly recently. The principle won 2014 Texas PTA Elementary Principal of the Year.

HISD said all this rezoning is due to Smith being overcrowded. So they shifted everyone to the south, across freeways, etc.
Ducks4brkfast
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quote:
The principle won 2014 Texas PTA Elementary Principal of the Year.
Unf'king believable!

How many Facebook likes did that take?
Olive Bomb
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quote:
According to the TG FB page or is getting better, especially the GT program.
Pretty sure Sinclair doesn't have a GT program.

LINK
HeightsAg
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Both are no bueno but I thought that Love pulls from a higher socioeconomic area than Sinclair? All else being equal, east of Shepherd > west of Shepherd.
CrossBowAg99
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Are you folks figuring out that HISD is ****?
HeightsAg
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I'm just trying to figure out why all the uproar. Is there really much of a difference?
BMX Bandit
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percentage of kids with (1) english as second language and (2) free lunch:

sinclair: 19% 63%

love: 53% 92%

thats a pretty significant difference
CrossBowAg99
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But both are still terrible
TheWoodsAg
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There are a ton of high income families with young children moving to Lazybrook/Timbergrove, Sinclair demographics will change greatly over the next 5-10 years.

It's essentially the Heights from a decade ago with bigger houses/lots, the olds are dying off and high earning youngs who want to live ITL are moving in. 3/2s in that neighborhood are routinely going for $550k+
Diggity
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Never assume a school will change around because of improving demographics. There are plenty of very nice neighborhoods in Houston zoned to some very crappy schools. If the parents in the neighborhood don't send their kids there, the schools won't improve.

It sounds like Sinclair is on the rise, so hopefully that will continue, but there are no guarantees.
Jules_Winnfield
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looks like the final decision is today. we'll see what happens
Panama Red
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quote:

It's essentially the Heights from a decade ago with bigger houses/lots, the olds are dying off and high earning youngs who want to live ITL are moving in. 3/2s in that neighborhood are routinely going for $550k+

You could have said the exact same thing about the area zoned to Love a decade ago. High earning yougs who want to live ITL moved in, 3/2s routinely went for (inflation adjusted) $500k+.

Yet Love is still terrible.
JJxvi
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I disagree that the Sinclair zone has ever been behind the Love zone in any meaningful way in terms of gentrification.

The eastern portion of Timbergrove zoned to Love has never been as nice as the western portion of Timbergrove and Lazybrook that were zoned to Sinclair. And the southern portion of the Love zone below 11th street is probably the most recent area of gentrification in the zone of either one. It was a much worse area than Shady Acres, which is zoned to Sinclair. Sinclair's zone has actually always been a decent area, unlike the Love zone. 20 years ago, Timbergrove and Lazybrook weren't hoods in need of gentrification at all, but almost every home was lived in by an older generation of folks who didn't have kids.
BMX Bandit
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the issue has been tabled for now.

JJxvi: I think you are greatly exaggerating the number of "childless" homes that Timbergrove had.

What it does have going for it is that Timbergrove never got as poor/barrio as the area around Love did, so the starting point is not nearly as low. But I agree with Panama Red on the point that you won't see dramatic change in the quality of the school over the next decade. It will likely remain "just okay."
JJxvi
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Well, there were some of us, not as many as you would get in suburbs, and often "going over to your friends house" was really "going to their grandparent's house"

I also want to say I don't disagree about the school changing so much, the people who can afford Timbergrove now, can afford private schools and its the same way for anybody buying a house big enough for a family in the Love zone too.
Ducks4brkfast
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Why does it stand to reason that just because someone can afford to spend $500k on a home, they can automatically afford to spend ~$18k/year per child for private school?
JJxvi
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Surely there isn't anyone paying $18,000 for elementary school tuition. $13,000 or so is about what the high schools kids typically go to in the area run. $13,000 a year is also right around the yearly tax someone pays on a $500k house.
chico
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Why does it stand to reason that just because someone can afford to spend $500k on a home, they can automatically afford to spend ~$18k/year per child for private school?
if someone got that over-extended buying a house without considering their kids' future, then they've made a poor decision.
agnerd
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Why does it stand to reason that just because someone can afford to spend $500k on a home, they can automatically afford to spend ~$18k/year per child for private school?
Because a $500k house is a luxury. That same house can be purchased for $200k or less in Katy/Cypress etc. with no additional costs for school and only minimal additional transportation costs. The owner of the $500k house has decided that the quality of life improvements from living closer to town are worth the $300k cost difference and possibly having to pay for private school. If they can't afford the house plus tuition and their child's education is a priority, they will move to the suburbs and will no longer own a $500k house and will not be covered by the quotation. They can definitely afford to do that. If you can afford a $500k house, you can also afford to rent an apartment and pay the tuition (again, no longer covered by the quotation). Lots of options available.
BMX Bandit
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Plenty of people are paying that for tuition

And I also don't see why buying a 500k house means you can also afford private school.


Wouldnt' the tax bill on $500k house be closer to $10k? (not $13k)
JJxvi
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For simplicity I just did 2.6% times $500,000 = $13,000.

Yes, with homestead exemptions its actually going to be $10,103.
Diggity
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quote:
quote:
Why does it stand to reason that just because someone can afford to spend $500k on a home, they can automatically afford to spend ~$18k/year per child for private school?
Because a $500k house is a luxury. That same house can be purchased for $200k or less in Katy/Cypress etc. with no additional costs for school and only minimal additional transportation costs. The owner of the $500k house has decided that the quality of life improvements from living closer to town are worth the $300k cost difference and possibly having to pay for private school. If they can't afford the house plus tuition and their child's education is a priority, they will move to the suburbs and will no longer own a $500k house and will not be covered by the quotation. They can definitely afford to do that. If you can afford a $500k house, you can also afford to rent an apartment and pay the tuition (again, no longer covered by the quotation). Lots of options available.
While your comparison of a $200K home in Katy vs. a $500K home in the city is a little off (take a look at what $200K gets you in any decent part of Katy anymore), I agree with the rest of your point.

My line of thinking (which appears to be similar to yours) isn't that a family buying a $500K home can automatically afford private school tuition costs for one or more children. It's that they aren't typically going to be the type of resident that will be comfortable sending their children to a school that's comprised of 60-90% economically disadvantaged students. Most of them will either have a plan in place to do private school, are hoping to magnet into a better school or will move when the time comes to make that decision. I'm sure they are also hoping that the schools do improve to the point that they could consider sending the kiddos there, but it's a fallback plan most of the time.
BMX Bandit
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It's not a fair comparison because it's Harvard, but most of the parents that I know on my block say their plan is to sell their houses when the kids get past 5th grade and move to a better middle school ITL.

Of course, if they can't turn a profit they expect on the sale, Hamilton make get an influx of kids over the next decade that ordinarily would not have gone there
Diggity
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Of course, if they can't turn a profit they expect on the sale, Hamilton make get an influx of kids over the next decade that ordinarily would not have gone there
Isn't Harvard zoned to Hogg Middle School? Not that it's any better.
Lot Y Tailgate
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http://www.houstonisd.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=176974&dataid=133880&FileName=sinclaires.pdf

Here is a link to the proposed boundaries that were tabled. Living in a house that will probably always be zoned to Sinclair (no wife or kids yet so I have AT LEAST 5 years before I have to worry about this) I would much prefer (for property value sake) the map as it is now, with Sinclair including Cedar Creek Heights.
JJxvi
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What is driving this anyway? Stevens overcrowding? Sinclair, Love, and Memorial don't strike me as campuses needing much adjustment.
JJxvi
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Oh...I see that Stevens would be getting that section added to the north of their zone....mmm, Oak Foresters can't be too pleased about that...
Olive Bomb
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^^ I've heard that Smith being overcrowded was the driver for all the changes in this area. I think the new boundaries are a net positive for Stevens. Most of what they pick up across Pinemont is Candlelight Oaks, which isn't a bad neighborhood, and lost some of the stuff around 34th & Mangum (most of it looks commercial areas though)
AgLA06
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quote:
Surely there isn't anyone paying $18,000 for elementary school tuition. $13,000 or so is about what the high schools kids typically go to in the area run. $13,000 a year is also right around the yearly tax someone pays on a $500k house.


You don't know what you're talking about. If you're sending your kids to private school with that kind of mortgage it isn't to a crappy one. Look up what St John's or Duchesne or Kincade or Episcopal cost.
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