School re-zoning - meeting tomorrow, fyi [Staff Warning on OP 4/13/16]

59,239 Views | 350 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by RockInspector
WanderlustAg
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AG
Got this from our realtor. I'm still gathering info on it so I'm not putting this out to fuel any arguments for one side or another. It's a fyi for interested parties...

Please see the note another Realtor friend sent me that might make you want to go to the meeting even more. "Everyone - I was contacted this morning by a friend who works at CSISD. She was very concerned about plans being discussed / considered for South College Station Schools. There is a big push by some to Bus kids away from the schools close to their home and have South CS kids attend CSISD elementary, intermediate, middle and high schools on the other side of town--no matter how close their home is to the school. Almost no one from South CS zone even showed up to oppose the idea. For more information on the last meeting they can look up the News from the Eagle or KBTX."
quote:
We have to have a voice in this or others will be the ones impacting the decisions of the people making them. I know we all love the schools we are zoned for, and I know many of your purchased your homes because of the zoning. I know that we understand change is inevitable and zones aren't written in stone, but we must speak up and be united to ask that they leave the elementary and high schools alone especially. We hope to see you at the meeting at the transportation services complex on Wm D Fitch and Rock Prairie(near pebble creek and the old CS dump location) at noon!
The meeting this week is the last opportunity anyone living in South CS will have to say "No, do not bus my kids away from their local school" If you can't attend the meeting, there is a email address to email in your thoughts on this issue(traffic concerns etc) feedback at csisd (dot)org . Here is the link to the information about the meeting! http://www.kbtx.com/content/news/College-Station--374341641.html http://www.csisd.org/apps/news/article/560395

[Effective 4/13/16 @ 4:00 p.m: This is obviously a hot topic in this area and there are passionate opinions about the subject. We are not going to take this thread down, but we are going to be strict with posters on the thread. If a poster insults other posters, belittles other posters, or makes fun of the "big deal" that everyone is discussing, or attempts to derail the thread, that poster will get a ban. If that happens, no amount of emails to the moderators will reverse that ban. There is the warning. Don't bother complaining if you ignore it. -Staff]

WTM
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This is just the reality of the districts here. No matter the opposition, as CSISD's economically disadvantaged numbers grow they will be forced to seek a balance. You cannot have one high school with 20% free and reduced lunch and another with 80%. Elementary school you get a little more wiggle room as far as distance to the school, but middle school and high school, that is just the reality of the situation.
jac4
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AG
The rumor in my neighborhood is that Pebble Creek wants to go to CSHS and displace some other South CS neighborhoods to Consolidated. Has anyone heard that?
Oogway
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No. Not at all. Any discussion I have heard was regarding the intermediate/middle school split.
BigBubba
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AG
quote:
There is a big push by some to Bus kids away from the schools close to their home and have South CS kids attend CSISD elementary, intermediate, middle and high schools on the other side of town--no matter how close their home is to the school.
quote:
but we must speak up and be united to ask that they leave the elementary and high schools alone especially.
I am trying to understand your post but it confuses me. Maybe it is because we define "South CS" differently? What is your definition of "South CS kids"?

I live in the Pebble Creek area (which I call South CS) and our kids are already bused to intermediate, middle and high schools on the other side of town. So what is changing?

I like the schools we are at and don't care they are further away.

Did anybody go to the meeting last week? If so, care to elaborate what was said so I can decide if I should attend tomorrow?
BigBubba
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AG
quote:
The rumor in my neighborhood is that Pebble Creek wants to go to CSHS and displace some other South CS neighborhoods to Consolidated. Has anyone heard that?
I feel like I have heard that also but can't recall where. I got the feeling that some of the Pebble Creek folk were upset that their kids are not going to the shiney new school.

Honestly, I think there is very little chance they would move any areas currently zoned to AMCHS over to CSHS. All the growth in town is currently in the CSHS areas. In my opinion, if they move any HS zones then it would be to move kids from CSHS to AMCMS (which might be what the OP is trying to say?).

I personally hope they leave the High School zones alone for a few more years so kids can finish where they started.
SARATOGA
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Schools should be re-zoned with north south major streets as divisions. Busing kids PAST schools is stupid.

Everyone should just go to the school closest to them. I think there is a law that schools must be equally funded, so the population characteristics of the students shouldn't matter.

Common sense: go to the school closest to you. Ready break.
techno-ag
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AG
As long as we grade schools by their test scores and track things like a school population's racial & socioeconomic makeup, there will be bussing to maintain balance.
jac4
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AG
quote:
I am trying to understand your post but it confuses me. Maybe it is because we define "South CS" differently? What is your definition of "South CS kids"?


IMO South CS= south of Rock Prairie.

In a few years, we may need to change that definition to south of Graham or south of Barron.
TAMU1990
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AG
Currently, there are very few to no low income housing units in south College Station. Before anyone mentions rental properties, anyone who pays $1200 to rent a house is not low income. Almost all schools in the Consol zone have at least food panties, toiletries, laundry detergent, school supply, clothing and coat closets for their students that are used frequently. I really don't hear about these services in the CSHS schools, unless they are doing a drive for the kids in our zone or Bryan.

All of CSHS's low income students are bused in - that is what that spike in the middle of town on the zoning map is for. The way the current zoning patterns are set up CSHS enjoys a built in advantage. Consol has twice as many low income students as CSHS (and that is with Pebble Creek and all of the other neighborhoods east of Hwy 6 already zoned to Consol). The Consol zone has problems because of this imbalance and it needs to be addressed.

There has to be more houses in south College Station zoned to Consol to balance out this problem. As College Station continues to growth south there will be a constant supply of housing units filled with families that are not low income. In addition, the "hot housing market" only exists west of Hwy 6. The zones are effecting real estate
values and personally I am tired of shouldering the burden. I know plenty of people who have moved to the CSHS zone (or send their kids to private schools) - I have yet to meet anyone who has moved across the highway to the Consol zone. I am sure there are 1-2 families that have moved across the highway, but there is an exodus west across the highway, and if the zones aren't satisfactory fixed there will be more.
TXTransplant
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quote:
This is just the reality of the districts here. No matter the opposition, as CSISD's economically disadvantaged numbers grow they will be forced to seek a balance. You cannot have one high school with 20% free and reduced lunch and another with 80%. Elementary school you get a little more wiggle room as far as distance to the school, but middle school and high school, that is just the reality of the situation.




I used to live in CSISD and always heard this was the reason for busing kids around to schools far from their houses. We have since relocated to Tomball ISD. In our neighborhood there are at least two schools that are <10% "economically disadvantaged". One of those schools is close to zero percent "economically disadvantaged". This isn't the case across all the elementary schools in TISD, but exactly zero kids are bused from our neighborhood schools to other schools in the district, and no kids are bused into our schools. That was one of the first things I noticed when we moved here. Any reason why this "rule" is only applicable to some school districts?
BigBubba
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AG
quote:
The Consol zone has problems because of this imbalance and it needs to be addressed.

There has to be more houses in south College Station zoned to Consol to balance out this problem.
What "problems"?
quote:
and personally I am tired of shouldering the burden.
What "burden"?

quote:
The way the current zoning patterns are set up CSHS enjoys a built in advantage.
What advantage??

I live in the Pebble Creek area, my kids go to the Consol schools and I have no idea what problems you are referring to.

- Edits to fix typos
BigBubba
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AG
quote:
Currently, there are very few to no low income housing units in south College Station.

All of CSHS's low income students are bused in - that is what that spike in the middle of town on the zoning map is for.
quote:
There has to be more houses in south College Station zoned to Consol to balance out this problem. As College Station continues to growth south there will be a constant supply of housing units filled with families that are not low income.
Your proposed solution to "the problem" does not make sense. How does moving kids in South CS to Consol help balance out the schools if all the kids in South CS are not low income? Consol would still have the same number of low income students.

EVA3
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AG
quote:
The rumor in my neighborhood is that Pebble Creek wants to go to CSHS and displace some other South CS neighborhoods to Consolidated. Has anyone heard that?
Yes.
aggiegal99
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Wendy,
CSHS does have a food pantry. It was started this semester thanks to the hard work of some awesome teachers and administrators.

To me, the presence of a food pantry indicates an extra-caring and hard working staff. I'm not sure why you seem to interpret it as something else.
TAMU1990
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AG
Bubba let me answer you:

1) The problems are - lower parent involvement, fewer PTO monies raised, fewer kids involved in extra curricular activities, more fights/thefts, more kids sent to Venture, etc. 75% of the referrals are from the Consol zone.

2) The personal burden is a financial one. There is no hot real estate market in Pebble Creek or other east side neighborhoods. Our resales take longer and houses sell at a lower price per square foot. Houses on the other side sell very quickly and the market has responded to that situation.

3) The advantage is that the CSHS zone is primarily in south College Station. Where are the apartment complexes, government housing units, and the like out here? Any future housing units that are going to be built in south College Station are going to be overwhelmingly single family homes. If you are low income you can't even afford entry level houses in the low $100K. The low income percentages of the elementary schools in town are all over 50%.

4) If you add more rooftops to Consol that are not low income you lower their percentages. By subtracting the rooftops from CSHS you raise theirs to where the numbers are more in line. Simple example:

100 kids, 50 low income = 50%
150 kids, 50 low income = 33%

Of course, the reverse of this example is true (adding more low income to CSHS to take some pressure off of Consol), but it doesn't solve the issues listed in #1. You need to add more rooftops to Consol so the student/parental involvement of the school increases.

The biggest problem the district faces is what I outlined in #3. You can't really change that because we are a college town. You have an older core of the city surrounded by suburbia. One change is for developers to tear down the lower income neighborhoods and replace the housing with high income units, but I would venture to say most don't want to see that happen. There are several nice, older neighborhoods in town - just not enough of them. And a lot of those units are being sold as rental homes which are attractive to students.
TAMU1990
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Aggiegal, it's a necessity in the Consol zone and they have been around for a while. There is nothing negative about it. It just highlights the imbalances between the zones.

I haven't looked at the current low income numbers but just a few years ago College Hills was around 55%, South Knoll in the 60%, and Southwood Valley was pushing 70%. I know they took some of Wood Creek back into Southwood Valley to lower those numbers but it just highlights the problem that the majority of low income housing is in town.
aggiegal99
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I can promise you that it's a necessity in the CSHS zone as well.
EVA3
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AG
quote:
2) The personal burden is a financial one. There is no hot real estate market in Pebble Creek or other east side neighborhoods. Our resales take longer and houses sell at a lower price per square foot. Houses on the other side sell very quickly and the market has responded to that situation.

So you want us to take our kids away from the kids they've gone to school with all their lives. And you want to bring our property values down. Got it.
BourbonOTR
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Some info--
Economically disadvantaged in the Highschools:
CONSOL 33%
CSHS 19%

Swapping Pebble Creek with Saddle Creek/Duck Haven won't help this imbalance. Not sure the best solution. Majority of the growth is South of town and West of Hwy 6 so naturally the newest schools will be built in those areas.
TAMU1990
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AG
Bourbon, look at the current Intermediate and Junior High numbers. Those numbers include when Consol had full classes until 2014. CSHS just graduated a senior class in 2015.

And I do not think there will be any swapping - just adding more.
TAMU1990
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AG
Eva, that's rich. Reread what you posted. Let them eat cake!

And personally, there is no way I believe that Pebble Creek (or any other neighborhood on the east side) will be in the CSHS zone. There needs to be balance.
EVA3
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AG
You said yourself, you think the Consol zone hurts your value.
TAMU1990
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Eva, that is market driven - if the schools were balanced then the market value will return.

I personally believe that many of the houses in the east side will be rezoned to Cypress/CSMS/Consol. There will be no more clean feeder patterns - which is part of the problem. If I had to take a guess, there will be a set of Intermediate/Junior High schools that will be mixed (1/2 to Consol and 1/2 to CSHS). If they wanted to be really aggressive they will make the new ones the split schools.
EVA3
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Right. The market value will return to Pebble Creek at the expense of the other neighborhoods.
aggiegal99
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Wendy,
I'm completely mystified why you think it is a problem that, for example, 60% of kids at South Knoll turned in paperwork to qualify for free/reduced lunch. My kids go there. It's a fantastic school where they have found deep, lasting friendships with a variety of kids. The family nights are incredibly well attended. Performances are standing-room only because so many extended family and friends attend. My kids have been challenged and inspired by awesome teachers.

At the most recent UIL academic competition, both high schools blew away the competition. An AMCHS art student has artwork hanging in the US Capitol. A CSHS student is going to nationals in FCCLA Interior Design, etc, etc. I could go on all day. Both schools, by any measure of success, are wildly successful academically, artistically, athletically.

We are very lucky to have a really great school system. To suggest otherwise is just ignorant. You continually suggest that lower income is lesser somehow, and that argument is incredibly damaging. It's attitudes like yours that damage property values. It's not the schools.
BourbonOTR
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Aggiegal99 gets it. the schools will never be exactly equal when it comes to socio-economic status. What's important is that both are good schools with good teachers. Obviously some care has to be taken so that they are not way out of balance but I think some are just trying to blame the schools for their property values when in fact they just live in the older neighborhoods (looking at you Pebble Creek).
KaneIsAble
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AG
My kid is years away from attending school but you'll never be able to convince me its in my best interest to drive past schools miles closer to my house to make a percentage look better for your cause.

You're argument loses all hope when you bring in the resale price of your home. That screams of some form of envy/jealousy/whatever and I checked out after that.

Though as a person in the oilfield industry I do appreciate your attempts to try prop gas back up by consuming more so blue star for that!
CS78
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"Equality" run amuck!!!!

People work hard and sacrifice for years to live in the more desirable areas and have their kids go to the best and safest schools. It's pretty messed up that no matter how hard you work and plan, the school district actively tries to take that away from some.

Wendy, do you think if they gobble up Castlegate or Creek Meadows and send them in to the low income areas, it's going to somehow bring Pebble Creek back to what it was? That's not how it works. The demand and new development will just evolve in a new area. The market will always be willing to pay for the best schools.

Our kids are at the age where they will be starting school soon. This reminds me to not get too heavily invested in a home while they are school age. We live where we do so our children can have the best opportunities. If we get screwed in a rezoning we will just just rent out our current home and chase the zones around town as needed. We will not move to another area that also got the shaft.
BigBubba
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AG
Aggiegal99 - Thanks for your reply. I was speechless trying to decide how to respond to Wendy and you did it well.

Wendy, rather than responding to all of your points, I'll just say that I think your definition of "problems" and mine are vastly different.
jac4
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AG
Let's get Indian Lakes, Castlegate I and II, Bentwood, Sweetwater I and II, Tuscany Trace, etc all over to Consol to make it better. Did I miss any fancy South CS neighborhood?

What if we just set school assignment based on the CAD value of the house? Over $X, go to AMCHS. Under $X, go to CSHS.

In all seriousness, this is a major reason why our kids go to private school. I don't like the way this is going and I'm pretty sure the property values in my neighborhood will be adversely effected by a change.
InMyOpinion
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I guess I should not be surprised that only in CSISD parents can turn a good thing into something bad. CSISD has the lowest percentage of "economically disadvantage" kids in the Brazos Valley and you can't agree on where they should be bussed.
KaneIsAble
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AG
Just to confirm - you do realize the frustration is likely not from parents of the disadvantaged? It's from those who have sufficient means but are being sent across town in lieu of the disadvantaged "unfair" percentage per zone.
befitter
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Sounds like today's meeting at noon should be well attended.
dman2217
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I'm sure there are many reasons as to why houses in Pebble Creek supposedly aren't selling. I'm assuming "better/newer" houses are more appealing in other neighborhoods/subdivisions. Could it be the HOA fees? I don't know since I do not live in Pebble Creek. Pebble Creek parents may drive to a school further away for intermediate/middle/high school but they do have an elementary school in their neighborhood. However I have seen some really nice homes going up for sale in the new "back" part.

Also you can't always compare home prices per square foot. If I am selling a 2000 sq ft home with high end appliances and the like, then my house should be able to sell for more than a 2000 sq ft with not as nice "stuff".

 
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