Did anyone else notice that the CoCS is in the design process for a traffic light at Victoria & Fitch?

Aside from folks that are 'fer' and 'agin,' I am curious about the highway design itself. On Hwy 2818 between Texas Avenue and FM 2154 (Wellborn Rd) there are several signals (four, I believe, and that doesn't include the intersections mentioned above). In addition, there are small access roads parallel to the highway so if I, for example, wish to visit the post office, I must turn at Southwood and then proceed down the access road. This enables me to travel at a reasonable speed along the highway and turn at the signal. There are few entrance/exits along 2818 itself (yes, exceptions like Consol and the gas station/library exist) so that traffic can somewhat proceed unimpeded if the signals are timed well. If someone turns right on a red signal onto 2818 they are required to stop first and then proceed. So, why is so much of Victoria and Fitch being developed with access directly to the highway? The Victoria/Fitch intersection I understand--that is a through street. I am referring to the commercial businesses further east, and the subdivisions further west. Traffic has only just begun to reach higher levels in the last few years, but with the developments springing up right and left, it seems unsafe.

I am no traffic engineer, no TTI expert, but is it a cost issue? Government has to buy the land at FMV and so cannot afford to have the extra between the highway and access road? Castlegate was built prior to Fitch, so that is a non-issue, but having to travel an extra 100 yards to turn at an intersection has never deterred me from visiting a location.

Any opinions/info out there?

I'm sorry, I want to answer your question - but your post is very rambling and confusing. What are you asking?

I have asked about this many times. My last phone call said that the light at Victoria and Fitch would go in before the beginning of the next school year and should start this summer.

I'd like to believe this is true BUT we were told the same exact thing last year - it would be in before the start of the 2015-2016 school year.

This is one of the big issues I have to changes in the zoning of Phillips Square (NE corner of Victoria and Fitch).

I've never wanted a light somewhere so bad and it's simply because of what was mentioned - the people who lack the ability to use an intersection properly. Spend a few minutes at the intersection every morning and see just how many people think a bike lane is a turn lane and how many people completely disregard the fact that there IS a stop sign mixed with the number of kids who cross Fitch every morning and you will understand.

If I could avoid the intersection completely I certainly would but it's not possible.

I believe I heard that the roads that are there currently will eventually be the feeder roads, and they will build the new non-stop highway down the middle. The eventual goal I believe is to come up highway six, exit and take a flyover all the way to 40 without stopping. Further, I believe eventually you will be able to go all the way from 6 northbound to 21 Westbound without hitting a light. Obviously that is many years and overpasses in the future,

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I'm sorry, I want to answer your question - but your post is very rambling and confusing. What are you asking?

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Yes, yes it is and I am sorry for that. I am asking for insight & opinions for why it was designed the way it was/is and it may be that I should have asked that first instead of rambling around the point. Looks like folks dived in anyway so thanks for your patience and understanding!

Fitch is designed with a 200' wide median because CoCS thought that if they spent the money on building beefy frontage roads which meet the TxDOT standards for interstate frontage roads, maybe TxDOT would build freeway main lanes where the median is now. TxDOT replied that they might maybe potentially think about building a freeway if they ever have extra money just laying around. In talking with TxDOT about it in the past, they're enforcing the intersection/driveway spacing along Fitch just like they would with a freeway frontage road so they're prepared to make it a freeway if they do find money. Overpasses would be at Arrington, Victoria, and Baron. They'd each get a stoplight and end up looking almost exactly like the Barron Road / Highway 6 intersection.

CoCS thought about doing the same thing with Fitch between Highway 30 and Highway 6, but TxDOT absolutely balked at the idea so it got build as a concrete boulevard instead.

What I've never seen is a coherent plan for the Fitch/Wellborn intersection if the freeway were to ever actually happen. I don't think anyone on earth knows the answer for that intersection.

Fitch to Wellborn "intersection" would be a flyover that continues on as the southern "loop" and would go up to meet Hwy 47.

But that kind of planning isn't a possibility for our P& Z department.


BQ is right, we'll all be dead by the time any infrastructure exists as we've described, and even if it comes it will be 30 - 40 years behind when it is needed.

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Fitch is designed with a 200' wide median because CoCS thought that if they spent the money on building beefy frontage roads which meet the TxDOT standards for interstate frontage roads, maybe TxDOT would build freeway main lanes where the median is now. TxDOT replied that they might maybe potentially think about building a freeway if they ever have extra money just laying around. In talking with TxDOT about it in the past, they're enforcing the intersection/driveway spacing along Fitch just like they would with a freeway frontage road so they're prepared to make it a freeway if they do find money. Overpasses would be at Arrington, Victoria, and Baron. They'd each get a stoplight and end up looking almost exactly like the Barron Road / Highway 6 intersection.

CoCS thought about doing the same thing with Fitch between Highway 30 and Highway 6, but TxDOT absolutely balked at the idea so it got build as a concrete boulevard instead.

What I've never seen is a coherent plan for the Fitch/Wellborn intersection if the freeway were to ever actually happen. I don't think anyone on earth knows the answer for that intersection.

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Interesting that Highway 40 east of Highway 6 was proposed to be that way. I would've thought the neighbors would throw a fit, as there's substantially less right of way there (assuming you took away the power lines). If there was a highway, say, Interstate 14 (in our dreams, I know), it might be possible to make a narrow-ROW highway not unlike Dallas North Tollway (which is less right of way what 40 currently has), and have sunken main lanes. Land value wouldn't be an issue, as some of the land in Dallas surrounding that houses some of the richest people in Texas.

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Fitch to Wellborn "intersection" would be a flyover that continues on as the southern "loop" and would go up to meet Hwy 47.

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Well, if Highway 40 was actually extended northwest, there wouldn't be a full Wellborn intersection since as it stands it's too close to the Barron stoplight (gotta have full ramps for that...you don't want people to exit Wellborn and STILL have to stop at Barron, or whatever) and anything coming off Wellborn won't have access to a frontage road that's above, below, or at the railroad crossing, so it would be almost impossible to head north. More likely, Barron Road will just widen straight toward Wellborn and access to and fro Wellborn will be done that way. It would still suck for those living on Barron, but if it WAS extended, there would be more people already accessing the highway from other points. Like if I was driving down there, instead of taking Dowling->Holleman S.->Rock Prairie->Wellborn->WDF, the highway will probably come into an intersection with Holleman (almost certainly, at some point), and I wouldn't even have to deal with Wellborn at all.

The story I've heard is that the discussion between CoCS and TxDOT regarding Fitch being a freeway took place in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Back then, the "neighbors" were 3 cow pastures and the Rock Prairie landfill. Now that the land in the area has developed, it's value has appreciated from about $2,000 an acre to $100,000 an acre. ROW purchases will never happen now; that boat sailed 20+ years ago.

I think the only realistic way that Fitch ever actually becomes a freeway is if the (newly announced) I-47 project selects the Fitch + SH47 corridor as the best way to get between Roan's Prairie and Cook's Point.

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I am no traffic engineer, no TTI expert.

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Neither are the people who work in planning and zoning, or traffic planning in the city offices.....

It is literally impossible to be worse at your job than they are at theirs.

Rarely do 2 equal roads meet and necessitate a signal. The reason that everything is built on the highway in this town, (and also now part of the reason why hwy 6 traffic is awful), is because every east/west road in this town has been mucked up with a lack of development planning, and tons of stoplights.

If you can't turn onto 40 from Victoria without a light, then you lack the necessary cognitive abilities to drive properly. WDF (was originally meant to be) a thoroughfare, and a way to easily and quickly move east/west - however poor planning, and now the addition of unnecessary stoplights will ruin it just as 2818 was ruined.

Yes this town is growing. But Planning and Zoning & Traffic department does not plan ahead, likely because they lack the education, skills, training, mental ability..... (they react) and their only reaction is stoplights, lots and lots of stoplights.

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I think you under estimate the number of constraints and conditions that the planning departments of city and state agencies deal with when making some of the decisions they do.

The design of WDF is just like other cities where they eventually plan to put in a freeway. In Houston, the Grand Parkway (99) started out like this on the west side of town. Go farther back in time and Beltway 8 also started out like this.

They start out with what eventually will become feeder roads. Over time, neighborhoods are built and intersections start to appear. More time passes, more homes are built and shopping starts popping up. They start putting in stop lights at the busiest intersections to make them safer. Eventually, after more years pass, the main freeway gets built and all the existing roads become feeder roads. Of course, that is years away when most of us will be older and grumpier. One thing is for sure, if they did not start out with it designed like it is then the option to build a freeway in the future would have been impossible.