Rezoning in the southwest corner of Graham and Longmire

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bcsbell
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1:05p, 2/1/16
Please Go for the Public Hearing
When: Feb 11th 7:00 pm 2016
Where: the Council Chambers of the College Station City Hall, 1101 Texas Avenue

In the hearing the council will get public inputs on the rezoning of the property from Rual to PDD Planned Development District for Multi-Family Development.

Strongly encourage everyone who are potentially impacted by this project to go and have our councilman and councilwomen hear your voices. At the same time, you can also contact them to express your thoughts and concerns.









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CS78
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2:10p, 2/1/16
Thanks for the info. I have to be against any multi family properties in south CS. Sure they might start off nice but it's a huge dice roll for the future.
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SoTheySay
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In reply to CS78 • 2:20p, 2/1/16
S
Please voice this concern for Castle Rock/Phillips Square as well.
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Ornlu
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In reply to CS78 • 2:46p, 2/1/16
AG
Please elaborate. Why are you opposed to multi-family?
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CS78
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In reply to Ornlu • 4:32p, 2/1/16
quote:
Please elaborate. Why are you opposed to multi-family?
Multifamily properties have a MUCH higher risk of turning south than single family homes. When they do it can affect an entire area. If vacancies rise for a number of different reasons, property management will often respond with lowering rental rates and accepting applicants they might not have previously. Lower rental rates draw in lower income tenants and the problems they bring along. That's the simple of it. Once it starts it can be extremely difficult to fix. All you have to do is look at our very own Southwood Valley for a prime case study. There have been some serious crimes in that area in the last ten years...like the 19 year old girl that was shot in the neck and killed by the thug neighbors. I'm sure they started off quite nice though.

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RafterAg223
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In reply to CS78 • 5:06p, 2/1/16
AG
This is an extremely uninformed and uneducated response. The properties being contemplated in South College station are true Class A products that will likely carry a price tag in excess of $100,000 per unit to construct. Go to San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas or any major metropolitan area in the country. You will find areas where neighborhoods with $2,000,000+ homes are situated literally hundreds of feet from high end apartment developments. Many of those products have been in place for well over 20 years. They are still extremely nice and still demand rents in excess of $1.10 per square foot. Crime in those areas has not skyrocketed and property values have not been diminished. There isn't a single MF property in Southwood Valley that has ever been remotely close to a Class A product. This type of product is needed in this area for families in transition, active seniors, and young professionals.

The fear mongering here and the attitude that one should dictate what others do with their own property is downright poisonous. To assume that crime follows any type of multifamily development is ignorant at best.
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CS78
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In reply to RafterAg223 • 6:06p, 2/1/16
quote:
This is an extremely uninformed and uneducated response. The properties being contemplated in South College station are true Class A products that will likely carry a price tag in excess of $100,000 per unit to construct. Go to San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas or any major metropolitan area in the country. You will find areas where neighborhoods with $2,000,000+ homes are situated literally hundreds of feet from high end apartment developments. Many of those products have been in place for well over 20 years. They are still extremely nice and still demand rents in excess of $1.10 per square foot.


I simply said there was a higher risk. It might not happen but the risk is higher with multi family properties. Sure there are good examples in the big cities of how it doesnt happen but there are also examples that have crashed and burned with time.

Why should a community largely known as being the perfect place to raise families take the risk just so a few can reap a short term profit.
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SoTheySay
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6:07p, 2/1/16
S
At the last P&Z meeting one developer said that these areas are "too far south" for students.

Talk about misleading.
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momlaw
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6:13p, 2/1/16
AG
Shop at Tower Point HEB weekends prior to semester kick offs. Busier than Christmas or any other holiday... students. These are far south of Graham/Longmire.

Don't have a dog in this hunt, just an observation.
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armymom
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7:05p, 2/1/16
Is this not the development for 55+ y/o citizens? Definitely need more affordable house for seniors on a more fixed income. If it's like Villas on Rock Prairie I can't see it being a bad thing!
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RafterAg223
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In reply to CS78 • 8:38p, 2/1/16
AG
Reap a short term profit?????? You do realize that complexes of this nature run in the $22mm - $26mm to construct and usually yield the owner/developer about a 7% return on their money? No one is out there fleecing anyone on these apartment deals. There is a real vested interest in keeping these properties in very good shape so that there is ZERO downward pressure on rent, and in turn no decline in ROI.
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starbuck128
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In reply to SoTheySay • 8:47p, 2/1/16
AG
quote:
At the last P&Z meeting one developer said that these areas are "too far south" for students.

Talk about misleading.


And he was talking about the rezoning of land that is across the street from all those student duplexes on Graham? Hmm....
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CS78
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In reply to Ornlu • 9:04p, 2/1/16
There is definitely a place for it. Geographical locations that will maintain long term draw. Close to city centers, college campuses, etc. This way builders can't just move to the next field over, build the next latest and greatest, driving down demand for yesterdays latest and greatest.
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Spyderman
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10:50p, 2/1/16
AG
Hope they put a DQ right there.
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AFM
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2:00a, 2/2/16
Just curious how many units we are talking about?
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BCStalk
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6:03a, 2/2/16
Discrimination
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cslifer
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In reply to CS78 • 6:07a, 2/2/16
Multi family housing doesn't bring in the "thugs". Looking at sad case of young lady you reference in southwood valley, she wasn't killed at an apartment, she was killed at a single family house.
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Ornlu
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In reply to RafterAg223 • 8:23a, 2/2/16
AG
If staff will allow me to get outside the bounds of this simple rezoning request and into the larger "Multi-Family vs. Single Family" issue that so often crops up in BCS:

The crux of CS78's argument seems to be that apartments which are not near major short-term centers of activity (ie: the University) might lead to localized pockets of low-income housing if the market turns south in 30 years. In turn, below average socioeconomic demographics --> violent crime. He used the distance from the university to draw the distinction between people who live in multi-family short-term people who live there long-term. CS78 - correct me if I'm characterizing your (deleted by staff) statements; I'm not trying to straw man you here. That particular opinion is a commonly held one.

That opinion ignores the poor correlation between below average socieconomic demographics and crime, as well as supplants free market forces with government mandate. In short, declaring developments which are affordable to people with less than average income illegal won't prevent crime, it will just lead to a lesser quality of life for poor people.
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W
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9:30a, 2/2/16
AG
multi-family housing is how it starts...
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techno-ag
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10:04a, 2/2/16
AG
I thought I heard something about federal grant money for low income senior citizen housing in CS? If this is that development, it might help explain the city's interest. Follow the money.
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Oogway
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11:40a, 2/2/16
Believe the location you are thinking of for that venture is near Fitch & Victoria (aka Vicky) near CSHS. There is a dearth of elder-accessible residences. It is the second fastest growing group of residents after the students.
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In reply to armymom • 12:02p, 2/2/16
CS78
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In reply to bcsbell • 9:54p, 2/2/16
[We have not deleted ANY posts on this thread due to the opinion given on the post and we will not delete any posts due to the opinion stated on the post. None. We are going to keep this thread clean of any posts that don't add to the discussion, aren't respectful, or have the potential to derail the thread. Including posts about moderation. -Staff]
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PS3D
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In reply to RafterAg223 • 8:17a, 2/3/16
quote:
This is an extremely uninformed and uneducated response. The properties being contemplated in South College station are true Class A products that will likely carry a price tag in excess of $100,000 per unit to construct. Go to San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas or any major metropolitan area in the country. You will find areas where neighborhoods with $2,000,000+ homes are situated literally hundreds of feet from high end apartment developments. Many of those products have been in place for well over 20 years. They are still extremely nice and still demand rents in excess of $1.10 per square foot. Crime in those areas has not skyrocketed and property values have not been diminished. There isn't a single MF property in Southwood Valley that has ever been remotely close to a Class A product. This type of product is needed in this area for families in transition, active seniors, and young professionals.

The fear mongering here and the attitude that one should dictate what others do with their own property is downright poisonous. To assume that crime follows any type of multifamily development is ignorant at best.
Really?


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10:51a, 2/3/16
PS3D
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In reply to [removed post] • 11:06a, 2/3/16
quote:
They see me trollin.... SERIOUSLY? That KMart hasn't been open since the 90s, and I think that Ad was from the 70s.


Of course it's an old ad.

My point was that some were complaining that the SW Valley apartments were "had never been close to Class A", which appears to be false and they really did deteriorate like an earlier poster fears what will happen to these.
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RafterAg223
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In reply to PS3D • 11:28a, 2/3/16
AG
So you find one property to support your claim. Go take a look at Lakeside at NorthPark Center smack dab in the middle of Preston Hollow in Dallas. The property was built well over 30 years ago, is still in pristine condition and still gets $1300+ for a small 2/2. There are several others just like it within a 1 mile radius. There are also single family houses within that 1 mile radius that probably come close to eclipsing the property value of 40 large homes in SW Valley put together. It can and does work.
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aggiepaintrain
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11:58a, 2/3/16
AG
Didn't the developer just kill this deal yesterday?

http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/plans-pulled-for-housing-developer-decides-it-s-not-worth/article_6c96efc5-d193-5f7d-869a-f38fe999f516.html
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12:34p, 2/3/16
Oogway
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12:41p, 2/3/16
I don't think that is the same project. There is the rezone at the corner north of the roundabout near Shenendoah & the rezone at the corner of Graham and Longmire (ish). I thought the project to which you refer was to be farther west. Empty lots being developed due to a bustling economy.

Edit-cannot spell
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techno-ag
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In reply to aggiepaintrain • 6:29p, 2/3/16
AG
That appears to be the federal grant project.
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FlyRod
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6:42p, 2/3/16
Interesting dilemma. Low and moderate income housing seems to be needed, yet no one wants to build it. And state legislators seem opposed to it.
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Maveric
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7:14a, 2/12/16
AG
The motion to rezone was voted down 5-1 last night.
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KaneIsAble
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7:39a, 2/12/16
AG
What about the entrance debate near castle rock?
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waterchick
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7:59a, 2/12/16
The City's Public Communications office does a (very useful, imo) live blog during City Council meetings and a "5 Things To Watch" blog a couple of days prior to the meetings.
The first entry at http://blog.cstx.gov has a recap of last night's meeting, including the rezonings.

KBTX also had a story on the Castle Rock rezoning.
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