Moral/God's law is to illegally carry a firearm into a private business that is offering you clear and legal instruction to not do so?
Bull****.
Bull****.
Will you carry when campus carry passes?
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Last: 9 yr ago by FlyRod
To each their own... not going to get into a fruitless TexAgs argument. They typically go nowhere.
quote:Sometimes defending your life and the lives of others trumps silly laws.
I think that's a shame. Carrying into private businesses legally posted against carry is challenging their rights and the rights of others more than them prohibiting your carry is challenging yours. You're making a choice to go in there, taking away their choice to deny you entry.
As for carrying in places currently illegal across the board, such as federal buildings, into buildings on campus, 51%, etc I also disagree. You're undermining the current laws on the books, even if you think no one would ever know. Part of having your own freedom is respecting the freedoms of others. As of now, the laws say you cannot carry in these areas yet you are. You may disagree with the elective process, but those laws are representative of the wishes (voting wishes, at least) of the people. You're placing yourself above the law and the freedoms of others.
Who decides what is moral/God's law? Who decides what law is silly?
This is a dangerous argument to use to justify what is essentially what you want to do.
This is a dangerous argument to use to justify what is essentially what you want to do.
quote:Who decides when one's life is worth defending? Such arguments are specious. Of course we have a right to defend ourselves. To become falsely indignant for the sake of moral relativism is a fool's game at best.
Who decides what is moral/God's law? Who decides what law is silly?
This is a dangerous argument to use to justify what is essentially what you want to do.
If you have been given notice not to come onto my property but you decide to do so, anyway, you are giving up your rights. My rights should and do supersede yours.
Again, I carry concealed every day, am a life member of the NRA, as are all of my immediate family, and I have had to use a firearm to defend myself before. I believe that if someone doesn't want me in their business with my handgun, it is their right to restrict that and it is my obligation to honor that.
Again, I carry concealed every day, am a life member of the NRA, as are all of my immediate family, and I have had to use a firearm to defend myself before. I believe that if someone doesn't want me in their business with my handgun, it is their right to restrict that and it is my obligation to honor that.
quote:
To become falselyindignant for the sake of moral relativism is a fool's game at best.
It's not moral relativism to say that one should obey the laws of the state one is in. You seem to be putting your set of morals above the state's laws. Texas allows a very broad range of self-defense, but doesn't allow guns in certain locations. You feel your perceived need for a gun for self-defense trumps current Texas law about where you can carry that gun.
If you think the law is wrong, work to have it changed, as is currently being done. If you feel you need to violate the law out of your moral convictions, as one would do in civil disobedience, do so with
the willingness to pay the consequences.
You and I have discussed guns before on Texags. While I do not mean to dismiss your feelings, I am still surprised at the level of unfounded fear that motivates people to carry around here, and remain convinced that the self-defense argument is something of a cover for the desire to carry a gun
because one just wants to carry a gun.
quote:
Who decides when one's life is worth defending? Such arguments are specious. Of course we have a right to defend ourselves.
I did not say one's life isnot worth defending.
As for God's law (which I know you didn't bring up), I would note that Jesus said something about turning
the other cheek, and about living and dying by the sword(ok, I'm trolling you can find a quote for anything in scripture.)
I'm heartened by the responsible CHL folks who actually obey the laws of the state of Texas, and I respect their right to work within the system to change those laws.
And I'm mortified by the arrogant foolishness of those who say that they decide what the law is. Stunning arrogance. I'll repeat: you lie through your teeth when you call yourself a "law abiding" anything. You're a menace. And unlike the sensible CHL folk working within the system, you and your TTTH "defenders" are the ones that give those who actually do obey the laws a bad name. That's just how things work.
And I'm mortified by the arrogant foolishness of those who say that they decide what the law is. Stunning arrogance. I'll repeat: you lie through your teeth when you call yourself a "law abiding" anything. You're a menace. And unlike the sensible CHL folk working within the system, you and your TTTH "defenders" are the ones that give those who actually do obey the laws a bad name. That's just how things work.
Tradishun and lostmydog get it. You are law-abiding or a scofflaw. This thread has made it crystal clear who is which.
quote:
post deleted
"I'm 100% law abiding except on those occasions when I'm not."
The biggest problem for CHL on campuses will be the skinny built in seats with flip up desks in a lot of the classes. Just like most peace officers eschew chairs with arms, there will be a learning curve learning how to sit in one of those tiny seats with a concealed pistol. We'll probably see an increase in Maxpedition style bags for carry.
What many of y'all can't seem to grasp is that laws don't prevent school shootings. In fact, knowing people are prohibited by law from carrying makes schools and university more desirable targets.
I don't think there's anyone here who denies that, techno. We just have a sense of respect for the law and rights of others, and act with that in mind.
And, again, I don't think the major issue is school shootings. At all. It's walking to class through areas to and from class that are unsafe after dark. I do that, and I don't like it, but I still don't carry. As much as I might feel my right to self defense is being infringed upon, that does not give me righteous directive to infringe on the rights of others.
And, again, I don't think the major issue is school shootings. At all. It's walking to class through areas to and from class that are unsafe after dark. I do that, and I don't like it, but I still don't carry. As much as I might feel my right to self defense is being infringed upon, that does not give me righteous directive to infringe on the rights of others.
quote:Well fortunately looks like the law might change soon and you can carry in good faith.
I don't think there's anyone here who denies that, techno. We just have a sense of respect for the law and rights of others, and act with that in mind.
And, again, I don't think the major issue is school shootings. At all. It's walking to class through areas to and from class that are unsafe after dark. I do that, and I don't like it, but I still don't carry. As much as I might feel my right to self defense is being infringed upon, that does not give me righteous directive to infringe on the rights of others.
What people can't seem to "grasp" is that state laws are not "conveniences."
quote:I'll disagree with you here, Fly.
What people can't seem to "grasp" is that state laws are not "conveniences."
Most people on this thread do indeed grasp this, to their credit.
A couple notables do not, and their bloviating and pontificating and TTTH'ing speaks volumes.
I stand happily corrected.
Not being allowed to legally provide your own protection is indeed an inconvenience.
kudos to techno and some others for valid arguments here.
I'm not going to jump back into this one. Glad to be living back in this community and out of Austin!
I'm not going to jump back into this one. Glad to be living back in this community and out of Austin!
quote:
Not being allowed to legally provide your own protection is indeed an inconvenience.
I'd worry more about protection from those Sonic milkshakes.
BUT seriously, this has been a great and informative thread, all disagreements aside. On the Politics or General Boards it probably would have gone in a very different direction.
If you have a license AND can conceal your handgun, carry it. Screw these yahoos worrying about whether its' right or not. Don't be a statistic.
A good question to ask is, what's the difference between concealed carry in a movie theatre -vs-
a classroom?
a classroom?
One is illegal, prohibited by a law enacted and upheld by the representatives of this state in order to respect and protect the rights of the voting majority - a critical aspect on which our society and government are built.
quote:
A good question to ask is, what's the difference between concealed carry in a movie theatre -vs-
a classroom?
Nothing, other than legality. Carrying illegally in places that do not allow it does the movement no favors. If you feel that strongly about it, do not visit places that do not allow you to carry.
quote:That one will hopefully soon no longer be illegal. Then, folks will legally carry concealed in both classrooms & theaters. There is essentially no difference, no matter how uncomfortable the thought makes you feel.
One is illegal, prohibited by a law enacted and upheld by the representatives of this state in order to respect and protect the rights of the voting majority - a critical aspect on which our society and government are built.
Techno, read the rest of the damn thread before you get snarky. I support campus carry and it doesn't "make me uncomfortable" at all. I support campus carry, justified it in this thread, have campaigned for it, you name it. I think campus carry is great...when it's legal.
quote:
Techno, read the rest of the damn thread before you get snarky. I support campus carry and it doesn't "make me uncomfortable" at all. I support campus carry, justified it in this thread, have campaigned for it, you name it. I think campus carry is great...when it's legal.
Which it hopefully soon will be.
quote:
Techno, read the rest of the damn thread before you get snarky. I support campus carry and it doesn't "make me uncomfortable" at all. I support campus carry, justified it in this thread, have campaigned for it, you name it. I think campus carry is great...when it's legal.
I have a lot of respect for your views and patient insistence, C XX I.
Hang in there.
^Ditto. Voice of reason.
Appreciate it, glad it seems to be helping/at least clarifying. I usually have no qualms about being a bit combative in arguments on teh internetz, but I take this issue to heart and would rather it stay a civil and educational discussion.
quote:Agreed. Y'all have a done a good job keeping it civil this time.
Appreciate it, glad it seems to be helping/at least clarifying. I usually have no qualms about being a bit combative in arguments on teh internetz, but I take this issue to heart and would rather it stay a civil and educational discussion.
Agreed. The restrained use of the smug and bloviating TTTH has been especially refreshing in this thread. Lots of good information conveyed all around.