I was driving by Shipleys and saw that they still had the little debit card "service fee" signs still up.

This is despite HB 3068 going into effect today outlawing any form of surcharge on debit card use, even "service fees charged by our processor."

Did any TexAgs posters visit Shipleys, Cici's, or any other of the infamous debit card surchargers and get charged a fee for using a debit card?

Edit for grammar

[This message has been edited by coach dub (edited 9/1/2013 4:29p).]

I still got charged a surcharge today at brunch.

As before, the local program is a discount program for using cash, credit. It is not a debit surcharge program.

I am neither arguing for or against it, simply stating its definition.

It is not a discount program.

If you pay with cash or credit the receipt shows a .49 fee and then a deduction of the .49 fee. They are not discounting anything. Instead, they are charging a fee for the use of a debit card and not charging it for cash or credit.

That makes it a debit surcharge program.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Palsgraf (edited 9/1/2013 5:29p).]

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It is not a discount program.

If you pay with cash or credit the receipt shows a .49 fee and then a deduction of the .49 fee. They are not discounting anything. Instead, they are charging a fee for the use of a debit card and not charging it for cash or credit.

That makes it a debit surcharge program.

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Ding! Ding! Ding!

I guess it depends on how it's spun/perceived. The cash and credit receive the discount, the debit does not.

Interesting indeed.

Report 'em to the state!

Government teach those private businesses a lesson!

Does this law apply to a C-store having a "minimum amount" that you have to spend before they'll take a card?

Some stores have $5.00 minimum before they'll allow you to use a debit card.

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I guess it depends on how it's spun/perceived. The cash and credit receive the discount, the debit does not.

Interesting indeed.

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Therefore the additional fee is an illegal surcharge.

You can report illegal debit card surcharges to the Office of the Consumer Credit Commissioner at 800.538.1579 or at http://www.occc.state.tx.us/pages/agency/Index8.html.

And SAWgunner- they did not outlaw minimums on credit/debit charges.

[This message has been edited by coach dub (edited 9/2/2013 8:31a).]

My understanding is that the merchant can require a $10 minimum for credit card purchases but cannot require a minimum for a debit card transaction.

some of these same posters that are saying to report them and cheer-leading this government regulation, are also claiming to be conservatives and anti big government.

interesting!

I've always wondered how much of a burden handling cash is for a business. If everyone paid in cash, would this be enough to force businesses to create incentives for using "plastic"?

I guess it sounds nice that businesses can't charge a surcharge for a debit card, but practically that means they'll just cook that into the price for everyone. I'm not sure how that is a win for me.

Frankly, it should be up to the business to determine what forms of payment they wish to subsidize or accept. Just like it is up to consumers to purchase from the business.

robert

Robert,

I'm with you. Over regulation drives prices up. In the end, the consumer will have to pay more. The business will not win either, as they will have to pay the bank.

Clear winners in this situation: banks.

Banks have the money, so they have the lobby, so they have the politicians. Not very hard to see.

Under the debit card surcharge scheme, major interstate banks profited at the expense of the smaller, locally owned banks. This was due to the fact that the big banks issued more credit cards while the smaller local banks primarily issued debit cards. Maintaining a penalty for using debit cards discourages debot card usage hurting the local banking community while rewarding the larger out of state banks.

In addition, people with lower incomes are more likely to carry a debit card or prepaid card than a credit card due to their lower credit scores. The now-illegal debit card surcharge racket punished them as well.

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some of these same posters that are saying to report them and cheer-leading this government regulation, are also claiming to be conservatives and anti big government.

interesting!

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So, in contrast are you saying liberals should cheer businesses violating the law and ripping off consumers? Non sequitur.

Have any businesses been charged yet for "violating the law and ripping off customers?"

Seeing how the law took effect on Sunday and today is a federal holiday, I doubt the Texas OCCC has been able to receive any complaints, yet.

Sully's manager said he had not heard of the new law and would let the owners know. I'm sure CharlieB hasn't told his merchant clients that charging a debit card service fee is now illegal, especially since they're on the hook for the violation, not him. Class act.

I tested it at Shipley's this morning. I did not get this " discount"...I was given a credit for the $.49 cent fee automatically charged to me. No dicount given. I was also told it wasn't a service fee, but was a surcharge imposed by the carrier , so they were not doing anything illegal.

I tested it at Shipley's this morning. I did not get this " discount"...I was given a credit for the $.49 cent fee automatically charged to me. No dicount given. I was also told it wasn't a service fee, but was a surcharge imposed by the carrier , so they were not doing anything illegal.

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some of these same posters that are saying to report them and cheer-leading this government regulation, are also claiming to be conservatives and anti big government.

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Welcome to BCS.

The AG's opinion with regards to credit card service fees was essentially that you legally in Texas could charge an unspecified fee, as long as it was disclosed and itemized, but that the fee could NOT be directly correlated to credit card use versus not using a credit card.

They defined an applicable and legal
discount program as one that would discount the price of an item or a percentage off the total for using cash/debit as opposed to credit as legal. Which is how the Spec's "10% off for using cash/debit" is allowed. You have a set price for items, and under the normal checkout you pay that price regardless of method, but cash and debit are given 10% off the total, as item discounts rather than fee refunds/credits.

The program that Shipley's and a small number of other merchants use doesn't work this way. You're charged for your items and then a fee is added on, but then removed for only certain items. There's no discount to listed prices, which was what the AG's opinion was.

Now the AG's opinion on the matter was for credit cards, as we outlawed those fees in 1985 (I believe) and that pre-HB3068 this method of fee prevention and disount-program-legality didn't apply to debit cards.

Now that HB 3068 *has* passed and is effective, the bill's authors have said that they wrote the law to grant the same protections from fees that have existed on credit card accounts to debit card accounts. If you take that at face value, then the same protections would prevent the program being used from being legal, since the fee is directly tied to using a debit card and the fee refund is not correlated to the price or discount of items, but is the refund of that line-item fee.

That's at least my interpretation of what's going on with HB 3068.

AG's office opinion on discount programs
https://www.oag.state.tx.us/agency/weeklyag/2006/1106cc_faqs.pdf

http://kutnews.org/post/smaller-texas-banks-stand-gain-ban-debit-surcharge

http://www.dallasnews.com/investigations/watchdog/20130627-the-watchdog-texas-merchants-who-charge-extra-for-credit-debit-purchases-face-more-than-a-warning-letter.ece

Took me a bit to find these other ones as well...

The AG's interpretation that a business may charge a fee, but may NOT base the fee on a credit card's use over another form of payment (important if the HB 3068 extends the same protections to debit cards that it offers to credit cards, as the bill's authors intend)

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/iia/view.php?type=q&id=871&cid=11

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Retailers can not post a price and add a surcharge for credit card payment. They may, however, post one price and offer a discount for cash.

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A per-transaction fee, as put in an example of a fast food restaurant. Legal if a fee for a per-transaction is levied on everyone, but not if levied based solely on the use of a credit card.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/opinions/50abbott/op/2012/htm/ga0951.htm


[This message has been edited by nwspmp (edited 9/2/2013 1:40p).]

nwspmp

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nwspmp

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Not that I agree with the fee, but is it that hard to support your local businesses with cash?

Yes, because I never carry cash.

If you want my business, you will not charge extra just for me to pay. If you feel the need to charge for my use of a card, I will go elsewhere.

+1.

I prefer cards, specifically credit, because of rewards. It's much more convenient to use cards, as well.

+1 everything is direct deposit now a days. I'd rather use cash but going to an ATM before hand is usually to far out of the way.

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some of these same posters that are saying to report them and cheer-leading this government regulation, are also claiming to be conservatives and anti big government.

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Welcome to BCS.

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Where has cons/lib been brought up at all?? Why do leftists always try to tell everyone else what to believe, while they hide their true belief/intent? Can you not comprehend that there are many varying degrees of "converatism", and none of them believe in an absolute free market.

Speaking of cici's is it legal for them to force people to buy drinks with the buffet? I hate that because I hardly ever drink soda so I'm essentially paying an extra $1.50 for water

You don't have to buy a drink. You can get water. Or at least you could a couple years ago.

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If you want my business, you will not charge extra just for me to pay. If you feel the need to charge for my use of a card, I will go elsewhere.

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Alternatively, why should everyone else subsidize your form of payment? That is exactly what will happen if the retailer can't have you pay the fee. They're not going to take the hit, they'll pass it on to everyone else.

robert

They've been "taking the hit" for years. There is just a cost to doing business. It's not an intelligent business decision to try to charge customers to use something that the majority of them use. It's too easy to find the same product elsewhere, without the fee.

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Report 'em to the state!

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Why can't I get the image out of my head of techno looking very much like Eric Cartman, standing outside a business with a surcharge fee sign and yelling "Respect my author-iti!"