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CHL or OC situational question...

5,640 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by Caliber
Kenneth_2003
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AG
This event happened here in Beeville last Friday evening. I did not witness this, but listened to it live on my radio. Thankfully no one was injured and there were no license holders present that I'm aware of, or if there were no one drew.

I had just left the police station and had stopped at Whataburger (No 1 with cheese, mayo, no mustard). My next stop was the Sheriffs Dept. We were hosting a charity bike ride the next day and I wanted all emergency services, especially dispatchers, aware of what we were doing and have route maps with turn by turn directions should a situation arise. PD dispatch reports that they've got a kidnapping in progress at the Stripes on US Hwy 181 Bypass at FM 351. Three male subjects dressed in suits came in the store, grabbed a guy and carried him outside. Th victim got away briefly, but was recaptured and put into a black Camaro headed north toward San Antonio.

A minute or so later, while I'm still in the drive-thru I watch every cop in town that was on duty heading North. Side-bar this means they were ALL at the police station and not patrolling and this would be a great time for someone else to cause mischief. Sheriffs Dept has reported they have no deputies in the area and request PD to take the lead until they get there. A trooper is en-route but is still 10+ miles away. Dispatch further reports multiple 911 calls continuing to come in, stories are all the same/similar.

It continues to play out for the next 20 minutes or so. Tapes are pulled from the store. The footage corroborates the 911 callers reports, but they only captured a partial plate on the Camaro. Next county north is sending a unit to the county line to wait. Off duty detectives are showing up and the gas station is shut down for the investigation. Police are searching all the side streets and back roads north of town along that highway. So multiple agencies are involved, an Amber alert is being prepared, and a BOLO is out on the Camaro.

Then the hammer drops... Three men (not wearing suits) walk into the police station and turn themselves in. They heard (somehow) that the cops were out in force looking for them. It was a prank they pulled on a friend.

So, if you had been there what would you have done? You're either pumping gas nearby or inside the store (again, presumably nearby). Carrying either on your person or in your vehicle. I do not know if any weapons, real or fake, were brandished during the kidnapping. There was no radio traffic that I caught on that matter. It might have been discussed, but I was trying to follow multiple frequencies and might have missed it.
CS78
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Maybe they watched Old School one too many times.

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92Ag95
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AG
Personally, not being a law enforcement officer, the only reason I would draw my weapon would be to discharge it in order to prevent an imminent death. I would not draw as a warning or to prevent what appeared to be a kidnapping. I would be more inclined to gather as much info as I could to aid law enforcement and possibly even follow at a distance without the intent to engage.
CanyonAg77
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AG
Decision tree:

Am I in danger?
Are my loved ones in danger?
Is a stranger in danger?
Am I damn sure the stranger is in danger?
Can I do anything about it?
Am I sure I want to do anything about it?
Am I sure I won't make it worse?

To be honest, 99 times out of 100, most of us will be standing there with our hands in our pockets, watching the Camaro fade into the night and wondering WTF was that?
johnrth
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I probably wouldn't have drawn, but tried to get the best description possible. I bet the thought of it being a prank would cross my mind, but I still would have tried to get a description.

On a side note, this exact sceneio was pulled on my wife when she was in high school. She got "kidnapped" by some of her friends and the whole tiny town in Iowa went bonkers, Amber alert and all. They had a story about it in the paper the next day
Credible Source
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AG
The only time I'm pulling is if I'm being attacked and absolutely cannot retreat.
CanyonAg77
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AG
quote:
On a side note, this exact sceneio was pulled on my wife when she was in high school.
A million years ago when I was in about 4th grade, I was a big fan of Reader's Digest. In one was a story about a newly-married couple having a prank played on them. This being the day of actual gas station attendants who would pump your gas, the best man put a note under the gas tank door, written in lipstick. It said something along the lines of "Help! I'm being kidnapped by this man! He's pretending to be my husband!"

When my mom was helping get the local church ready for a neighbor girl's wedding, I mentioned that story and how it would be funny to do that to this couple. Her horrified look and threats of what would happen to me convinced me not to write such a note.

Unfortunately, one of the groomsman had read the same story. He did one of the fake notes. The couple spent their first night in a the big town close to home, then headed into New Mexico for their honeymoon. Sure enough, somewhere on the trip, they get gas. The cops get called, and the new husband gets pulled over and drug out of the car at gunpoint. Bride is crying, saying "He IS my husband!", cop keeps saying "It's all right ma'am, we've got him now, you don't have to pretend."

Luckily for them, they had bought a local paper before heading into NM, and they were able to show the cop the paper and go on their way. However, my name was a cuss word for the rest of their honeymoon, as in "I'm going to kill that (CanyonAg77) kid when I get home."

The offending groomsman 'fessed up when they got home, so my life was spared. Good thing, the guy joined the NSA later. If he was still mad, he'd probably cut off my Internet acce
Kenneth_2003
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AG
The three subjects wearing black suits thing threw me for a loop. I was sitting in the drive-thru with the tiniest red flag waving in the back of my mind that that little tidbit was weird. From chatting with a few of our local LEO's the next day they also found the suits thing odd, but obviously couldn't just assume prank.
meggy09
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AG
I woulda drawn and shot the tires out.
meggy09
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AG
Also how in the hell are three guys gonna kidnap a 4th in a freaking camaro. That woulda been my red flag. Panel van or you're an amateur/it's a joke.
FSGuide
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quote:
The only time I'm pulling is if I'm being attacked and absolutely cannot retreat.

Wow, you'd be great to have around in a tight situation, sounds like a great team player.
Credible Source
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DannyDuberstein
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AG
My strategy is to stick with one approach - assess the direct threat to me (and any family/friends with me) and deal with it if necessary. Otherwise, I'm letting it go down. People watch too much tv and have a false sense of how accurately they'll be able to assess a situation in the moment.
Unemployed
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AG
I would draw my phone and call 911.
htxag09
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AG
I always wonder this when you see some of these prank videos on YouTube. Not like scaring a friend in the hallway, but when they pull stunts on complete strangers in the street.
Kenneth_2003
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AG
Thanks guys... It's good to see that I'm falling largely in line with y'alls thinking. Don't get involved unless you're directly involved or at risk...

So you find yourself between them and their car or in their path. My goodness, I don't even really want to think about it.

These guys are beyond stupid, and incredibly lucky. Oh and at least one of them WAS arrested that night and taken to jail. Turns out, when they turned themselves in at the police station, HE HAD AN OUTSTANDING WARRANT FOR HIS ARREST!
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Wouldn't get involved. If three dudes in suits are crazy enough to kidnap someone in a haji mart with cameras everywhere then they crazy enough to blast you ass for looking at them the wrong way.

Dude getting fake kidnapped got stuffed in the back of a Camaro? Thats dangerous right there.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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AG
You showed a real lack of situational awareness and made a pretty piss poor decision.

You ALWAYS get mustard on a Whataburger.
UnderoosAg
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UnderoosAg
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AG
Something something CHL doesn't come with a cape.

Seems like drawing on the suits means you expect to be able to hit all three of them, while missing the kidnapee and any bystanders, before any of them can return fire.
Credible Source
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AG
Tell that to FS guide. Super gonzo over here would have us blasting people all over the place and hopefully getting parades.
UnderoosAg
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AG
quote:
I always wonder this when you see some of these prank videos on YouTube. Not like scaring a friend in the hallway, but when they pull stunts on complete strangers in the street.

Coworker showed me a couple of "prank" videos where a dude dressed in what is supposed to be Middle Eastern manjamas runs up to a group of people and throws a backpack before running off. Of course everyone scatters and runs like hell. Seems to me that would be a really good way to get shot.

Tx-Ag2010
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Yea... I think some of the videos were shot in England.

I think you would be shot if you tried this in Texas...

CactusThomas
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AG
Stopped reading at "mayo, no mustard"
Kenneth_2003
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AG
quote:
Stopped reading at "mayo, no mustard"
Mustard goes on hotdogs, not hamburgers! Bunch of fat side down trimming yahoo's thinking otherwise!
AggieRob93
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AG
quote:
Mustard goes on hotdogs, not hamburgers! Bunch of fat side down trimming yahoo's thinking otherwise!


Yep, mustard does indeed go on hot dogs. AND burgers. And corn dogs. And deviled ham sammiches.
eric76
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AG
I've read about cases where someone grabbed a screaming kid, put them in a vehicle, and drove off and it turned out to be parents with an uncooperative child.
eric76
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AG
quote:
quote:
Mustard goes on hotdogs, not hamburgers! Bunch of fat side down trimming yahoo's thinking otherwise!


Yep, mustard does indeed go on hot dogs. AND burgers. And corn dogs. And deviled ham sammiches.
It can also be good on beans. And BLT sandwiches.

In comparison, mayonnaise is only good for tuna fish sandwiches, turkey sandwiches, and chicken sandwiches.
Caliber
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quote:
Stopped reading at "mayo, no mustard"
Seriously, this.

I was wondering if this story took place in Canada or something...


On topic, I likely would not have gotten involved.

During my CHL class, the instructor showed a video of a ~14 yo girl leaving a walmart when a minivan speeds up. The sliding door opens up and two people hop out and grab her while she is screaming and fighting to get away. They throw her in and take off, looks like a kidnapping.

The real story was that it was her parents and she was a runaway. Point being that you need to accurately access the situation before sending bullets down range, especially when dealing with strangers. Way too much stupid going on to just jump right in.

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