Guess this is a good place to post this. Look this over if you don't mind, and sign if you agree. Clean Line Energy Partners is developing a series of transmission lines that will deliver thousands of megawatts of renewable power from the windiest areas of the United States to communities and cities that have a strong demand for clean, reliable energy but lack access to such resources.

The Plains & Eastern Clean Line transmission project will deliver 3,500 megawatts of low-cost wind power from the Oklahoma Panhandle to utilities and customers in Tennessee, Arkansas and other markets in the Mid-South and Southeast. The 700-mile direct current (DC) transmission line is currently under development and the Department of Energy is currently deciding whether to approve the Plains & Eastern Clean Line project.

Not only will this provide access to renewable energy, it will also create jobs and benefit local economies, both in the generation area and all along the transmission corridor.

Renewable Energy Infrastructure Petition

But what about the migratory birds wind turbines kill?

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But what about the migratory birds wind turbines kill?

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I know you are just messing, but it pales in comparison to the amount that are killed by airlines, cars, cats, buildings, and probably 100 other things. Birds are dumb and fly into stuff.

ER- when I first read your OP I was startled by the statment that the proposed transmission line will be a DC system. On first blush this does not seem like a very good idea for cross-country, long distance power transmission. However, when I opened and read the petition it does not mention DC transmission. I don't have the time to research this project but are you sure it's a DC system?

I personally have some concerns about this:

1. Why a separate transmission system and it's related cost?
Why not feed any new power into existing grids and as wnd power grows
it will supplant the other sources. Utilize existing infrastructure and use
savings in upgrades and expansions?
2. Tennessee and the Southeast? Where there is hydro-power? And coastal
winds lend themselves to more local wind power generation?
3. DC power distribution seems odd.

My thoughts anyway. Not sure this project is a good idea based on sketchy information. May feel differently when I learn more.

Here's more information. And yes, it is an HVDC line. The existing infrastructure just isn't there to transport a significant amount of energy from remote areas to major markets, particularly in the East. This is an issue facing the transmission grid in general for the western part of the US, not just in relation to this project. Look at the CREZ initiative in West Texas.

http://www.plainsandeasterncleanline.com/site/home

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I'm pro free market capitalism.

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Do you like $7/gallon gasoline?

Just saying, all energy development in the US is heavily subsidized.

Water Turkey - Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that without the help of government that gasoline would cost $7/gallon? What is it that the oil & gas industry receives by way of subsidy that makes the price of a gallon of gas less than half of your $7 figure. I know that approximately half of the cost of a gallon of gas sold in Texas is tax, but even if the government put that directly back in the pocket of the oil company you still don't have $7. The oil & gas industry may receive what some deem to be "corporate welfare," but the renewable energy industry would not exist without taxpayer dollars.

There are several large wind farms in my part of the state. The power went out the other night in a thunderstorm. It struck me as ironic that the little red lights on top of the turbines went out when the power went down. Couldn't believe that those things don't power their own lights. When the red lights go out air traffic has to be rerouted around the wind farms. That burns more fuel you know.

What counties in the okie strip?
Why not the northern most counties in the Texas panhandle ?
Sounds like a bad deal.

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It struck me as ironic that the little red lights on top of the turbines went out when the power went down. Couldn't believe that those things don't power their own lights.

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Don't get me wrong - I believe wind energy is the least efficient type of electricity generation there is - but this is actually pretty common.

The wind turbine can't power it's own lights, because they're not always generating power. The same as any other power plant has secondary power coming in from the grid, because they still need to be able to power up their computer systems, lights, safety systems, etc... when they're not currently producing power either due to market demands or an outage.

That said, it is a little silly that there's not a backup system (battery or generator) to power the aircraft warning lights.

I agree with very little if any of the ideas expressed by the OP and thus will not be signing the petition.

Texboatman and 89FordAg with the best posts of the thread. Like most of the green movement, efficient, renewable wind energy is currently an impossibility. But the left relies on emotion from their supporters, not logic, un-manipulated data sets, or prior human experience as should be relied upon for decision making. They refuse to consider all the negative consequences of their ideology, and in this case it's leftism and crony capitalism wrapped into the same story, as we are all forced to pay higher rates to support the "public-private parternship" that was necessary for a company to even build the infrastructure to begin with.

And for water turkey, "big oil" only makes 8-10 cents profit per gallon of gas. The rest of thst cost is tax to the citizen, cost of production and exploration (that encompasses a lot not listed) and corporate taxes, fees, and permits "big oil" is required to pay to have permission to operate. Subsidies to the large oil companies ended years ago. Yes, some small subsidies are given to smaller exploration companies but the percentage of oil that is subsidized by the govt (and thus actually by us and our children as the printing presses run constantly to print money to cover the debt) is relatively small.

And setting that aside, fossil fuels run our economy and the world and there is emty to go around. We have tremendous reserves in the Rockies and Alaska that the left won't even consider allowing us to access so we can work towards energy independence. Last study I saw was that if all fossil fuel energy was taken off the table, we would have 7% energy production remaining from water and wind sources. That would be a SHTF scenario of the largest degree.

Tldr: I won't be signing the petition either. Sorry Txboatman for what you've been through. You have like minded individuals all around you. Hang in there.

A true environmentalist could argue the wind industry has done more harm to the environment than it could ever possibly offer through the offset of production of a renewable energy resource. I understand this is your livelihood but I will not be signing your petition as I have too much firsthand experience of this industry resulting in the destruction of native rangeland or highly productive farms.

High voltage lattice type towers and powerlines just went through our place, took 8 acres, and 200 pecan trees through eminent domain, because the NIMBY's in Denton didn't want to have it go through their precious greenbelt and kill any of their trees. So they ran the line 20 miles north off the original path, then back east 20 miles, then 20 miles south to the original path so the hippies in Denton wouldn't have to look at it. And killed probably 10 times the trees due to the extra 40 miles of lines they ran. Oncor, hippies, and the wind power movement can EAD and die for all I care.

So much focus on energy production, and not enough on energy reduction. Tax dollars spent on subsidizing wind power should be spent on energy efficiency projects. Tons of energy to be saved out there, and it would have payback. Then we wouldn't have to focus so much on transmission lines etc

I guess this isn't as good a place to post this as the OP thought...

Log, let's not forget, there were OB posters (at least one), that faught to make that happen (the skipping Denton go "rural").

From a wildlife standpoint, the transmission lines create a lot of edge habitat. Some generalists love it, but habitat specialists as a group do not do well with increased linear edge habitat. Get up in the Panhandle, you get some species, like prairie chickens, that are not tolerant of large vertical structures.

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I guess this isn't as good a place to post this as the OP thought...

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Nope

and 20 years from now are they going to abandon these towers because they are worn out ?

Who pays to remove these, or are they left to decay forever?

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So much focus on energy production, and not enough on energy reduction. Tax dollars spent on subsidizing wind power should be spent on energy efficiency projects. Tons of energy to be saved out there, and it would have payback. Then we wouldn't have to focus so much on transmission lines etc

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I didn't specify it earlier, but the lines that came through our place were built specifically to carry wind power in from West Texas.

Also, my field of work for the last ~8 years has been energy efficiency & engineering. I agree, this is where we need to focus, rather than this green crap.