Tell me about TV's

3,003 Views | 24 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by aezmvp
ATL Aggie
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AG
Lightning strike on Saturday fried my 7 year old LCD TV main board. All 4 HDMI ports dont work, the AV ports do still work, I didnt check the component. Anyway, all of the internet tv parts stores dont have the main board in stock and the local repair shops dont have it either.

Its been a while since I paid attention to TV technology. Is there any reason why I shouldnt buy 4k/UHD? I would like to spend less than $1k on a 47-50". Does anyone have any recommendations?
tamusc
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Vizio P-series, best non-OLED on the market

$999 for the 50"

https://www.vizio.com/p-series

https://www.vizio.com/tvs/pseries/p50c1.html

I've been looking around pretty hard since my old plasma finally bit the dust and I'll be getting the 65" P-series myself in the near future.
kirbyclarke
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Look at this way if you have the money and are a movie buff who likes quality, then get the 4k tv. I have a 42" 4K from vizio and LOVE it. amazing clarity and colors.. I am also a huge nerd when it comes to this stuff and notice it more than the average person since I work around cameras all day every day.

long story short, if you have the money get a 4K. If not then your standard 1080 works
tamusc
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Agreed, though at this point at that size and price range, there really isn't a reason to NOT get a 4k TV. The new technology is all on 4K displays, so you're more than likely getting a far better display if you buy a 4k versus a 1080p one.

4K and HDR are pretty much my must haves currently, as those will be the big things that will actually be supported moving forward.
Martin Q. Blank
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I don't think you can tell the difference between 1080 and 4k at that size.
tamusc
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Yes, you can, though it depends on how close you sit, but as I said, you're typically going to get a better display now with a 4K versus a 1080p one. Things like HDR will make a difference regardless of how close you sit to the TV.
hph6203
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quote:
Vizio P-series, best non-OLED on the market

$999 for the 50"

https://www.vizio.com/p-series

https://www.vizio.com/tvs/pseries/p50c1.html

I've been looking around pretty hard since my old plasma finally bit the dust and I'll be getting the 65" P-series myself in the near future.
Start Here: www.rtings.com

This is your answer. I just purchased the 50" model and it is incredibly impressive from a black level, sharpness of picture standpoint. To me the most noticeable issue from TV to TV is how dark the blacks get, and on this TV they appear nearly as black as possible.

To get a relatively equivalent set of features on a competing set you'd have to add 25-50% to the cost (Samsung/Sony/LG).


My main gripe about it is that the smart features are essentially a built in Chromecast, and the remote is not an IR remote but rather a Bluetooth connected Android tablet. It still receives IR commands, and they provide you with a "dumb" IR remote; the included tablet just doesn't have an IR blaster. That means you can't control a soundbar/any other device with the included tablet unless it is CEC compatible. You can however purchase a universal remote to control everything, including the TV.


The other issue, that isn't relevant to me, but may be relevant to you is that the TV does not actually meet the general definition of a TV, but is rather more of a monitor. It does not have a built in digital tuner, so if you're planning on watching OTA channels you'll need to buy a separate box.


Benefits:
4K Resolution
FALD (Back light instead of edge-lit, provides better contrast/black levels)
HDR Dolby Vision - This is the big improvement in display technology, increases the color accuracy and brightness. This requires integrated hardware and cannot be added through a firmware update. It's already available on the TV.
HDR10 is coming in the next month or so. It is the generic, less impressive version of HDR Dolby Vision, but is what is going to be used by UHD Blu-Ray Players and the upgraded gaming consoles.
All of this basically adds up to the best picture for the dollar available on the market

Drawbacks:
No integrated tuner
Remote could be better
Smart features could be better
Probably won't be getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata, but that won't be available on any TV this year.
tamusc
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AG
quote:
Drawbacks:
Probably won't be getting HDR10 with dynamic metadata, but that won't be available on any TV this year.
Yeah, Vizio actually went with the more expensive standard (Dolby Vision HDR) and have the ability to add HDR10 compatibility to their sets with a firmware upgrade (which they've said will be coming soon).

As you said, if you have an HDR10 set, you likely won't be able to add Dolby Vision compatibility in the future and thus will be stuck with just HDR10.
tamusc
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The Verge did a really nice review of the P-series and did an in-depth piece on their SmartCast control scheme.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/19/11687510/vizio-4k-hdr-tv-smartcast-google-cast-review

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/22/11279954/vizio-smart-tv-google-cast-tablet-remote-smartcast-app-feature

It's definitely a new approach that you may or may not like. As hph said though, you can use their simple IR remote or a standard universal remote as well. Personally, the built in GoogleCast functionality is a huge selling point for me as it's one less device to buy and take up an HDMI input.

The other advantage to this approach is that you won't be stuck waiting for firmware updates for individual apps that may or may not ever come (looking at you Samsung with your lack of updates). Instead, any app that has or adds Chromecast/Googlecast functionality will automatically work with this display.
jamaggie06
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Whats the significance of HDR? How does that translate to video? Excuse my ignorance. A quick google search left me confused.
tamusc
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This article does a nice job explaining it.

http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-hdr-for-tvs-and-why-should-you-care/

Short answer is HDR gives you dramatically better colors and contrast, but you have to have both a TV capable of displaying AND content mastered for it. There's also two competing standards, Dolby Vision and HDR10, that we discussed above. Right now, the safe bet is to get a TV with Dolby Vision (or both) because the manufacturers can add HD10 decoding after the fact with a firmware update if a display has Dolby Vision. If a display has HD10, you're stuck with just HD10 and hope that it either wins the standards war or both are supported moving forward (like Dolby Audio and DTS).
ATL Aggie
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Based on the responses and a few internet reviews I came across it looks like the Vizio P50 is a no brainier.

For the past few years I have been using Roku for Amazon & Netflix. I understand now that these TV's have built in apps (and in the Vizio's case a tablet which streams the app content). Do modern TV's handle internet apps as well as Roku or are you better off continuing to use Roku?
tamusc
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If you already have a Roku, I would keep it to compare that experience to the integrated Googlecast approach with the new Vizios.

One of the big factors in Vizio deciding to go with the approach they did was that they got tired of having to work on licensing deals with all the providers and worrying about updates for individual apps (which rarely happens on most "traditional" smart TVs). With this approach, when a provider adds Googlecast functionality to their iOS or Android app, it's immediately available on the new Vizio displays.

Ultimately, the new Vizio approach is far more flexible and future-proof, but can take some getting used to.
hph6203
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quote:
Based on the responses and a few internet reviews I came across it looks like the Vizio P50 is a no brainier.

For the past few years I have been using Roku for Amazon & Netflix. I understand now that these TV's have built in apps (and in the Vizio's case a tablet which streams the app content). Do modern TV's handle internet apps as well as Roku or are you better off continuing to use Roku?
My personal preference is the Roku experience. Picking what to watch for me is a group decision.

Also, the Vizio casting system (aka integrated Chromecast) does not support Amazon. So if you use Amazon regularly, stick to the Roku.
tamusc
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quote:
quote:
Based on the responses and a few internet reviews I came across it looks like the Vizio P50 is a no brainier.

For the past few years I have been using Roku for Amazon & Netflix. I understand now that these TV's have built in apps (and in the Vizio's case a tablet which streams the app content). Do modern TV's handle internet apps as well as Roku or are you better off continuing to use Roku?
My personal preference is the Roku experience. Picking what to watch for me is a group decision.

Also, the Vizio casting system (aka integrated Chromecast) does not support Amazon. So if you use Amazon regularly, stick to the Roku.
Amazon is STILL blocking Googlecast? I use AirPlay with my AppleTV, so I had assumed that they added that. Guess they are still trying to force people to buy their Fire devices.
Dwide Schrude
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Keep in mind that the Vizio P series does not have a built in tuner, that's a deal breaker for some.

I know you said that your budget is under $1k. But just to plant the seed in your head, I recently bought a 55" Samsung KS8000 for $1,500 and it's been worth every penny. The 49" version is $1,300, you should at least go Best Buy and check all of them out. Just make sure you ask the associate to put it on a live tv setting.

If you're not going to replace your tv for a few years, why not get something you'll be 100% happy with now?
tamusc
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There is zero reason to spend $300 more for a Samsung that is 1" smaller. I used to be a huge Samsung fan, but they've really let the competition catch up/surpass them and have started pricing their TVs as premium devices like Sony has done for years. Don't get me wrong, Samsung makes a nice TV, they just don't justify the premium price over other brands.

Also, an external tuner is ~$50. I'm using the $50 USB tuner for my Xbox One currently and it works great.

In general, comparing TVs in a store is a pretty terrible idea.
tamusc
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Vizio releases the firmware update that adds HDR10 support to their displays that have Dolby Vision, so they now support both major HDR standards.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1469791153
Seven Costanza
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I just returned a Samsung KS8000 due to not being able to get used to the motion issues. The set has great ratings, but it seemed like my choices were 1.) Motion Plus On - nauseating soap opera effect, 2.) Motion Plus Off - frame skipping/jumping or 3.) Custom - no matter how much I tweaked the settings, it was always some combination of soap opera and judder.

I may look at the Vizio to see if it's any better. Or maybe just go ahead and get an OLED since it seems that they don't have motion issues.
tamusc
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quote:
I just returned a Samsung KS8000 due to not being able to get used to the motion issues. The set has great ratings, but it seemed like my choices were 1.) Motion Plus On - nauseating soap opera effect, 2.) Motion Plus Off - frame skipping/jumping or 3.) Custom - no matter how much I tweaked the settings, it was always some combination of soap opera and judder.

I may look at the Vizio to see if it's any better. Or maybe just go ahead and get an OLED since it seems that they don't have motion issues.
The LG OLED displays are definitely the ones to beat, but they are also significantly more expensive ($1,000+ more for the same size as a solid LCD/LED set). If you can handle the price though, they are the ones to beat.
Pman17
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I have an HDR Vizio P series 55". It's the nice silver bezel ones. Definitely over $1K. I didn't want to spend that much but hey, TVs usually last me for 10 years so might as well invest and invest in the future since 4K HDR content isn't that common.
Buck O Five
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Vizio known for more than just cheap tv's? Impressive jumps in quality as a brand these past few years.
tamusc
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quote:
Vizio known for more than just cheap tv's? Impressive jumps in quality as a brand these past few years.
Yeah, the used budget TVs to build their business and then really spent money on R&D to put out some phenomenal references displays a few years ago. Now the tech they developed for those really expensive reference displays is found in their consumer displays.
JW
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OLED.
Gigem314
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The thing about going 4K right now is the content is still very limited. If you're looking for this to be a '10-year or more' tv, then you might want to spring for it now. But if you're trying to find a nice deal to get you by a few years, I wouldn't throw a bunch of money at a 4K.

We were in serious need of an upgrade from our 32" Samsung, but I just didn't like the 4K options in the $1,000 price range. Those sets were always lacking something to save costs, and I wasn't going to spend $1,500-$2,000 on an LED. So I went with a basic 50" 1080p for around $500 to get us by a few years and have been very happy with the upgrade.

If you're not careful, you could end up with a tv that says it's 4K...but for cost-saving measures it lacks the other pieces to give you the true 4K display and work with all the new content that's out there. There's still a lot of snake-oil out there with the companies pushing the shiny "4K" display, but not having enough under the hood to really give you what you think you're getting.

I did a LOT of research last year and read a lot of reviews...and found that many of the 4K's I was considering in the $1,000 range always had something that was missing. You had to go $1,500 or more to get something more "future proof". Which, even there, still has the drawbacks typical with LED tv's (poor viewing angle, so-so blacks). I just didn't think it was worth the huge investment right now. While the technology is making strides, I feel like we're going through an "inbetween" period at the moment.

Another important aspect of the 4K route to consider is upscaling. Most content is still 1080p or 720p. I think it's an absolute waste of money to buy a tv that might look nice with the small amount of 4K content out there today...but can't deliver as good or better 1080p/1080i/720p image quality. That's improving, but something you really want to watch for in reviews. That's how some companies (like Vizio) cut corners. It may not be as important to some, but it was for me.

I keep hearing good things about the new Vizio P's. Though one of the issues that kept me from going to the cheaper Vizio 4k route was their poor ratings with upscaling. That was a deal breaker for me.

Once OLED gets more mature (or another non-LED technology) along with HDR, 4K blu ray (those players will be pretty expensive for a while) and 4K is more commonly available...then I'll be willing to sink $1,500 or so into a really nice tv. Prices will also go down in a few years as this new standard gets more sorted out. Until then, I'm happy to get by for a few years with a decent sized 1080p that didn't cost much.

Just my opinion.
aezmvp
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The upscaling can be bad on a lot of content, especially 720 and some poor quality 1080i content. I will say that for most consumer who aren't true videophiles the Vizio M-Series and down are just fine. The P series will be as good as most LG / Samsung / Sharp products and the R series will go head to head with anyone including the highest end Samsung stuff. Didn't used to be impressed with Vizio but they've come leaps in their tech/build quality.
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