A friend of mine recently played "Dark Side of the Moon" for me on his record player. As a self-proclaimed audiophile/music snob, I was completely blown away. Now I want to find my own record player. He recommended a site; the player has it's own self-contained analog speakers.

Does anyone have any recommendations for places to look for 1)a turntable or 2)albums?

If you want to buy new - turntables of all price ranges are available at places like Music Direct. They also sell vinyl.

But I would probably buy a used turntable on ebay.

Add: you may also need a phono preamp to send the signal to your audio system. Many don't have phono inputs any more.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 2/11/2009 7:53p).]

technics 1200mk2 are whats the dj industry standard. They have normal rca/phono output

best place to check is craigslist in musical instruments.

The DJ standard is not an audiophile turntable. Stay away.

Dark Side of the Moon is also incredible on SACD. If you have one of the older PS3's, it plays SACD's.

I got a turntable (Pro-Ject Debut III) for Christmas and LOVE it. A clean LP sounds amazing.

An "audiophile" that hasn't heard DSOTM on vinyl? TORBUSH!

[This message has been edited by helgs (edited 2/11/2009 11:57p).]

I was going to say something smart-alec, but then I realized you're even younger than I, helgs.

I'm a 1L at SMU. I spend my time trying to find distractions to take my mind off the fact that I'm in law school.

Because of this thread I looked on ebay....

I have this turntable. I bought mine on ebay almost 10 years ago. But I didn't pay this much!

I think you would enjoy a belt drive Dual, Thorens, AR, Pro-Ject, Rega, Music Hall or similar.

Sadly with MP3 becoming the de facto musical standard these days, most young people have never experienced glorious analog turntable sound (cracks and pops, notwithstanding).

Anyone remember those Discwasher brushes?

[This message has been edited by AGnCS (edited 2/12/2009 9:39a).]

showtime, it gets worse. I find ANYTHING I can do besides reading during the day. That usually means I end up going to bed at 1:00 am because I put off reading. When you get to upper level classes, the profs tend to become a little less uptight.

Audiophile turntables are Dependant on what kind of cartridge you use not physical unit. HTH

[This message has been edited by agdjrob-e-rob (edited 2/12/2009 11:02a).]

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Audiophile turntables are Dependant on what kind of cartridge you use not physical unit

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Meet Spicewood. Nothing short of using a laser based turntable will sound right.

The rumble from a direct drive motor that 99% of humans can't detect is like scraping rusty nails across a chalkboard to him.

This site is great and seems to have a great selection for turntables and accessories.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=78

I was walking through Fry's the other day and almost bought a new turntable. I've been turntableless for about 7 years now, and my boxes of vinyl just move from extra closet to extra closet with me. But I didn't pull the trigger because I hated to buy something with no research.

I got rid of mine when I finished grad school so I could buy "something nicer". I guess by something nicer I meant nothing at all.

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Add: you may also need a phono preamp to send the signal to your audio system. Many don't have phono inputs any more.

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I'm a audio-idiot, but does that mean that most newer receivers don't amplify any of the inputs because they are digital and don't have to? What exactly do you mean by a phono preamp. I'm near replacing my 15 year old receiver (which still has phono inputs) will I need to buy an amp as well? I'm not an audiophile, just love old vinyl.

I bet I've listened to the first side of Dark Side of the Moon abouta thousand times. It was my favorite album to study to in college. Lots of times I'd be too lazy to flip the album so I'd just pick the needle up and play it again.

For agdjrob-e-rob.... Yes the cartridge is very important. The key thing many forget is that the cartridge will convert not only wiggles in the record groove into signal - they convert rattles, vibrations, resonance, etc. into signal too.

So the platform for the cartridge - including the tonearm matters. The biggest problem with direct drive is that all of them transmit all vibrations from the motor to the platter directly, which then reaches the record. Then the cartridge. Oh these vibrations also travel through the base of the tonearm. NoACDammit says it doesn't matter - and that's good for him because he can spend less and be happy.

I have never suggested you need to spend tons of money. I suggest instead that a medium priced belt drive will probably sound better than just about any direct drive. DJ turntables are built to be manhandled and including forced stop and backwards motion. No need for that in a home audio turntable.

On the phono preamp question....

Phono cartridges produce signal in the single millivolt range (~10 mV) whereas a CD player or tape player can produce output near 1V. So the phono cartridge signal must be amplified much more to be audible. Receivers with a phono input have the additional (pre)amplification builtin. If the receiver doesn't have a phono input you'll need a phono preamp (some actually call it a pre-preamp). The output of a phono cartridge is also not flat with frequency. So a phono preamp also equalizes the signal.

Phono preamps don't have be expensive. I have a Parasound unit that I paid < $100 for. NAD makes a good one too that can be bought used on ebay.

You aren't going to hear the motor vibration from a direct drive table. You WILL hear pitch variability when your belt expands and contracts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TECHNICS-TURNTABLE-SL-QD33-Direct-Drive-Record-Player_W0QQitemZ130286744744QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item130286744744&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

$40 total on ebay. I wouldn't bother spending more than that unless you have dog ears. If you can find a direct drive in a pawn shop, nab it and save on shipping.

NoAC - You seem to have a particular passion for cheap turntables.

I think it is funny how direct drive has survived only for DJ use. That's because of the high torque and mechanical simplicity of DD.

After the initial euphoria when DD first came out - vinyl fans noticed they didn't sound as good as their 20 year old Thorens or AR. The super low speed variation of a DD is because the servo is constantly correcting speed errors. But the speed is actually constantly changing and correcting. That is much different than the speed stability of a belt drive. The speed does change - but slowly. That is LESS noticable than what happens with the measurable locked-on speed of a direct drive.

But I guess the fact that DD turntables can be bought on ebay for < $50 with cartridge while reasonable belt drives cost $300 is meaningless? Or is it a giant conspiracy of the the turntable makers to force belt drive upon us?

But it seems you and will not agree on this. That's OK.

I suggest that someone who really wants to hear Pink Floyd sound good on vinyl will not get the sound they want from the $50 Technics DD.

If the $50 will do - then you'll have money left over for that Bose clock radio you always wanted.

Buyers choice....

vinyl means nothing with crappy speakers

actually direct drive is not as mechanically simple compared to a belt driven turntable. with pitch adjustment, reverse and torque, there is more that goes into a direct drive.

also, the reason djs use slipmats is to prevent the vibrations from picking up being so minimal.

Also, please show me a DD turntable below 50 bucks. I'd stock up....
Belt driven turntables are another story. they belts warp and depending on the power inside can cause them to melt...

The typical direct drive TT has a DC motor driven by electronics. The motor shaft is sometimes the spindle. All speed variation is electronic. So mechanically they are VERY simple. Electronically they are sophisticated. The Technics DJ oriented models are sturdy and well made. The chassis is relatively heavy, the motor bearings are solid, etc.

I have never seen or heard of a belt melting - although I can imagine it might happen in DJ use. The rubber can definitely age and might crack over time. A belt drive is a poor choice for DJ use because most belt drives are a bit slow to reach the correct speed. The platter is usually relatively heavy (for the flywheel effect) and the belt can slip at start up. And stopping the platter by hand would cause the belt to stop moving.

I was not talking about dj use...hth

also, take into consideration having a belt driven turntable, and not using it for sometime can cause the belt to harden...

taken from hyrdogen audio wiki

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Belt-driven turntables are better than direct-drive turntables

Belt drives are far easier to implement than direct drives, easier to improve, and arguably easier to repair. Well built direct drives have speed and rumble tolerances as good or better than well built belt drives.
Subjective claims to the improved musicality and audio quality of belt drives are disputed and not well agreed upon by all listeners.
Belt drives hold their value just as poorly in the used market as direct drives.
Direct drive motors tend to last a very long time (some original-model SL1200s may still run without any maintenance). Belt drives need new belts on a semi-regular basis and tend to have noisier motors at the same price ranges as direct drives.
There is a common myth that a direct drive will "hunt" for the correct speed and cause audible speed variations. This has no basis in reality.
It is believed that direct drives are better at handling dynamic stylus friction than belt drives, except in cases of very poor direct drives or very good belt drives.
Some examples do exist of direct drives of inferior quality.
Stock tonearms on direct drives tend to be much less expensive than the tonearms that come with belt drives at similar price points.

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DJ - We should keep in mind that virtually all statements of audio quality are disputed and not agreed upon. It is just like the arguments on bit rates for MP3.

I think the evidence - based on what I see on ebay - says though that used DD TTs are far cheaper. The Technics models have held their value because they are well built. But the typical good belt drive has held their value very well. The models that suspend the drive system and tonearm are particularly valuable. Thorens, AR, some Duals, etc. are good examples.

So my preference for belt drive isn't some binary thing - it is just that the best vinyl sound I have heard has always been on a belt drive. I'm not a golden ear audiophile that believes in audio snake oil (like exotic cables).

People who think 128kbps on their iPod earbuds sounds good will be perfectly happy with just about anything.

But I think the market has spoken clearly. Direct drives have all but disappeared in the audio market except for DJ use. Only Denon is marketing an audio oriented DD at typical prices. If someone wants a DD, that is what I would buy for $350.

One company produces a $19,500 direct drive and it is a beauty. It takes advantage of things that DD is really good at and works to minimize its deficiencies.

http://www.stereophile.com/turntables/1107gp/

Very cool....

Add: I mentioned Music Direct earlier and someone else mentioned Audio Advisor.

Another place to look is Needle Doctor. They sell a bunch of analog stuff. Huge selection of turntables of all kinds.

[This message has been edited by SpicewoodAg (edited 2/13/2009 10:19a).]

reguarding ebay...i did a quick search on ebay for belt driven turntables...average is ~70$ while direct drive [not technics completely, but there were some], averaged at about ~200

DJ - you can't compare a search for Technics DD against all belt drives.

There are plenty of cheap DD TTS. There are cheap JVCs, Pioneer, Radio Shack, etc.

Search by brand like Thorens and the results are different.

I bet one like the TD160 here will go for quite a bit more than an AT1200. This TD160 looks like it is in terrific shape.

This is long past being a silly thread. You like direct drive. I like belt drive. Hopefully the OP has enough information to make his own choice to enjoy vinyl.

all i did was search 'belt drive turntables' & 'direct drive turntables'

thanks, everyone. i have come to the conclusion that this is entirely too confusing. i'm going to get an 8-track player instead.

http://www.crosleyradio.com/Product.aspx?pid=1670

This is more along the lines of what I was searching for...any thoughts?

Overpriced crap. Why do you need it self contained?

The single most important thing about playing vinyl is the cleanliness of the record itself. When my father passed, he left me a very extensive collection of 45's ranging from 1950 to 1989. I bought an entire sound system around this collection. I was very disappointed in the quality even though I bought near top of the line equipment including a Thorens turntable, Harmon Cardon amps, a quality preamp etc.

The store I purchased all the equipment from suggested I clean the records before I play them to get the best quality sound.

I did some research and then bought a VPI Disc vacuum cleaner. I couldn't believe the difference.

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http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-VPI-16-5-Record-Cleaning-Machine-In-Stock-Now-NIB_W0QQitemZ380100227452QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item380100227452&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

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It is an expensive investment no doubt. But I think you'll find much more enjoyment once you have it! Vinyl does sound much better than digital.

oops

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-VPI-16-5-Record-Cleaning-Machine-In-Stock-Now-NIB_W0QQitemZ380100227452QQcmdZViewItemQQptZTurntables?hash=item380100227452&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14