As a beginning place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Fathers

Some of you guys are super knowledgeable about early church history. What do you know about these communities of Christians who went out into the desert during the 3rd and 4th centuries? Why did they do it? What can we learn from them?

forgot to add that this bit I found most interesting. The second citation is quoting Thomas Merton, who describes the desert fathers as a type of anarchists.

Quote:

---

When members of the Church began finding ways to work with the Roman state, the Desert Fathers saw that as a compromise between "the things of God and the things of Caesar." The monastic communities were essentially an alternate Christian society.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Fathers#cite_note-Chryssavgis16-4][4][/url] The hermits doubted that religion and politics could ever produce a truly Christian society. For them, the only Christian society was spiritual and not mundane.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Fathers#cite_note-Merton4-17][17][/url]

---

The small amounts I've read on the Desert Fathers and Mothers has been fascinating. Thanks for this reminder. I need to read more on them.

They were heavily ascetic and were a trove of spirituality for us. The sayings of the desert fathers are very edifying.

My understanding of why they did it was because they were deeply influenced by the martyrs who truly gave everything to Christ. Once Christians stopped being persecuted, they still wanted to suffer and give everytging to Christ. So they went into the desert so they could live out their Christian life in a radical way. The most obvious thing I think we can learn from them is that we need to stop being so complacent in our lives. We need to focus ourselves on Christ and not always fret about the things of the world.

You should also read about the stylites if you have not heard of them.

Quote:

---

Once Christians stopped being persecuted, they still wanted to suffer and give everything to Christ.

---

riiiiight.

I'm sure there is much more to it than that, but that mindset to me is bonkers.

JJMt said:

---

Doesn't their withdrawal from the world contradict Christ's commands and example to us, though?

---

Maybe you should tell a real life monk that their lifestyle contradicts Jesus and see how they respond.

Jesus clearly does not call us to isolation away from the world. Sure monks are good people pursuing the Lord in the way they think best. But they are sinners in need of grace just like me.

Monks are not isolating themselves from the world the way I think is being imagined here. It's not for self-gain or to pursue personal peace or anything like that.

Monks die to the world. They cut all ties, even leaving their families. They lose their name (even their former Christian or baptismal name). They forgo all material possessions. They do this to devote their lives to prayer and serving God. Monks pray for the whole world.

And, they are nothing like what I imagined. I'm not sure how I expected them to be, but the monks I've met have been... amazing. Real. Happy. I've never left a monastery and not thought "this is probably how all Christians should live".

Well they do have the advantage of being cut-off from any viewpoint that differs from their own. Part of life is learning how to deal with people and views that challenge your own. That's usually where conflict arises.

I'm sure they are great people to commune with and I respect that they have the self-discipline to cut themselves off from many pleasures I enjoy. So don't think I am bashing their life-style. Just pointing out where I think it falls short. They can easily do the same to me on a much grander level.

Your post is kind of like "I'm not sayin' they're wrong, I'm just sayin'..." Not everyone is called to marriage, not everyone is called to celibacy, not everyone is called to the world, and not everyone is called to the monastic life. You say that their life falls short -- I completely disagree.

Most of the monks I've met didn't enter the monastery as young men. And if you think being a monastic is easy or somehow easier than living in the world because they're insulated somehow, I think you're mistaken.

Just playing devils advocate. I like to take a step back and analyze things for the sake of conversation.

I don't think monks have an easy life. I just think isolation excludes you from carrying your message to the world.

I'm pretty sure that I had read before that believers and nonbelievers would visit the desert fathers and mothers often. I believe their lives were well known in their region and drew many people to them. I don't think they were completely cut off from others.

The teachings of the desert fathers are available in a book called the Evergetinos.

You can find some other quotes around the internet. Here are some:
http://www.coptic.net/articles/sayingsofdesertfathers.txt
https://archive.org/stream/ApophthegmataPatrumTheSayingsOfTheDesertFathers/Apophthegmata%20Patrum-The%20Sayings%20of%20the%20Desert%20Fathers_djvu.txt

And this isn't just the desert fathers, but these are all from Ascetics.
http://orthodox.cn/patristics/300sayings_en.htm

RetiredAg said:

---

I'm pretty sure that I had read before that believers and nonbelievers would visit the desert fathers and mothers often. I believe their lives were well known in their region and drew many people to them. I don't think they were completely cut off from others.

---

This seems to be true based on the little I've read so far. They were perceived as having much wisdom to share. They also provided an example of a certain kind of egalitarian, non-hierarchical Christian community for others to consider. In some ways, that type of community could be argued to be much closer to the very early apostolic church than the authoritarian behemoth organization that the RCC evolved into.

Retired, I had a feeling you would relate.

Marco,
BTW, good to see you around here. Seems like it's been forever since you posted over here.

Isolation from whom, by the way?

These monks were not hermits. They lived in small communities called sketes. This is the cenobitic lifestyle, a community. And as they said many monks are spiritual fathers, confessors, and advisors for non-monastics, laymen, etc. Monasteries support monks writing books and often run charities, seminaries, and the like.

My youth pastor told me a story about visiting a monastery in Indiana.

He had gone through several very difficult situations within a few months, and was getting completely burned out on ministry. Someone advised him to give this place a visit.

He drove there in desperation, uninvited, and the monks immediately took him in. What was planned as a weekend trip turned into two weeks of hospitality and spiritual nourishment. It was really needed, and very helpful.

There is a good place for a group ascetics in the Kingdom.