R - On Genesis and Creation: What is the Meaning of the Text? (Novum Topic)

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Drum5343 said:


What do you take as the philosophical meaning of Genesis?
1) There is more to this world than the physical and material things. Rest, reflection, enjoyment and relationship is important.

2) Man is different than nature because he has the ability to contemplate moral issues, and therefore, has the ability to contemplate/show altruism / love.
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JJMt said:

Can you name anything from the Bible itself to indicate that references to Adam were in any part allegorical?

Seems to me that describing Adam and/or the first 11 chapters of Genesis as allegorical is primarily wishful thinking. It's a futile attempt to try to reconcile the Bible with understandings of modern science.
The first and most important response to this is to keep in mind the age of the text.

Can you name any piece of written language from 1000 BC or earlier that is not at least partially allegorical?

People forget that historical narrative wasn't invented until close to the time of Christ. We put impossible demands on this text, analyzing it without deference to its age.

Second is the instantaneous appearance of other people that were not of Adam's decent in Genesis. Very strange.

Third is the language around the names. Adam in Hebrew means literally "from dust," with connotations of earthy as opposed to spiritual. Eden means blissfulness and paradise.

Finally, there is the oral tradition of the importance of the story of Adam. The fact that we all came from one created being was taught as a reason to love everyone. We (all people) are all of the same eventual lineage. That is the profound truth, and the moral reason, for the story, whether or not it fits into your definition of historical narrative.

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Can you help me identify other pieces of literature from the early iron age, around 800 - 1000 BCE, that are a historical narrative that do not contain allegory? I'm having a hard time finding examples.
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It [the Bible] clearly and unequivocally claims to be a historical narrative, and has proven to be a pretty darn good one, too.
You are treating the Bible as if it is one consolidated book. I think that this potentially leads to a lot of confusion. Sticking with parts of the Bible that are somewhat contemporaneous to Genesis, the purpose for writing, for example, Leviticus is very different than the purpose for writing, for example, Job. I view it as a canon of different books written for different purposes, and treat each book as an individual work.

Do you think that Job was written to be interpreted as historical fiction? It, too, describes God's work in creation. A comparison between Job 38 and Genesis 1 is pretty interesting. The details in each are different to make different points.
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What oral tradition are you referring to?
The Talmud. I find it to be helpful to get a historical perspective on how the OT was considered by early Jewish scholars.
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And I think that you have missed the importance of Adam from a traditional Christian perspective. He was an opposite type of Christ - through Adam, one man, sin entered into the world. Through one man, Christ, sin has been conquered.

And we don't need Adam for your point. Don't Noah and his sons serve the same purpose?
My point is that the importance of Genesis, from the way it was taught in early Judaism, was the 7th day rest and the commonality of all man. Those were the points that early Jewish scholars pointed to in the text.
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To the contrary, the entire text of the Bible assumes without question that the first chapters of Genesis were factual history.
Can you provide some support here? Jesus spoke of Abel being murdered, but that would work with his teaching if Abel was a figurative character.

Finally, you do realize that discussion about allegory in Genesis is very old, right? We have writings from Jewish scholars from before 1100 AD saying that, where science and Genesis don't agree, we should assume Genesis is allegory. So, this isn't something that showed up during the age of enlightenment.
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