Question for atheist or agnostic parents who grew up going to church. Do you ever think it would be beneficial for your children to grow up in some type of spiritual community as you did?

Seeing all the things I got out of being part of a church throughout my childhood and being close with others in faith I feel that I want my children to experience something at least similar.

Any non believers or agnostics still go to some type of church for their children's benefit (I don't mean for the sake of their salvation or any silliness like that)?

Does anyone have any experience with some more alternative churches? Universalists or the like?

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The churches I went to always felt too much like high school: there was an in-crowd, an out-crowd, and it felt like everyone was judging you at all times.

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I could see that with a large church. The one I grew up in was probably no more than 200 members. The youth church was pretty small and everyone was friends pretty much.

i'd put forth that the feelings you got from those activities was based on a perceived spiritual experience that you were all sharing. if you don't acknowledge that the spiritual experience is based in reality, then i guess you could put your kid in it just as a way to indulge their childhood? kind of like santa claus or the tooth fairy?

to put it another way, if you don't believe in the spiritual "truths" that that church group is based on, does it matter to you that this "bonding" is based on fiction?

i'd feel pretty weird if when i got to be an adult i found out my parents weren't believers but they had me go to church youth group stuff and praise and worship stuff just so i could get warm and fuzzies.

Again though, it's not the same. Singing praise and worship together, going to events to serve our community, sharing spiritual beliefs and experiences with friends, I just have never experienced that in sports or any other group activity as a kid.

I am not an atheist so I wouldn't be completely subjecting my child to something I do not believe.

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I think that raising a child in a religious community often (maybe not always) has the affect of imposing a superficial religious identity on children before they are old enough to understand the religion at a sufficient enough level to make a rational decision about their faith.

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I see it as no different imposing a favourite sporting team or college football team on them as a child before they are old enough to pick for themselves.

what about a youth service organization?

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I think that raising a child in a religious community often (maybe not always) has the affect of imposing a superficial religious identity on children before they are old enough to understand the religion at a sufficient enough level to make a rational decision about their faith.

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I see it as no different imposing a favourite sporting team or college football team on them as a child before they are old enough to pick for themselves.

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yeah, i roll my eyes at people's stories of their kids knowing the war hymn, etc. i think they should enjoy it because of their actual experiences, not because i tell them that's who the "good guys" are.

That just focuses on one aspect. I don't think kids in those sit around discussing personal issues, personal relationships with a higher power.

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I think that raising a child in a religious community often (maybe not always) has the affect of imposing a superficial religious identity on children before they are old enough to understand the religion at a sufficient enough level to make a rational decision about their faith.

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I see it as no different imposing a favourite sporting team or college football team on them as a child before they are old enough to pick for themselves.

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Sports teams are real though. . . . . hahaha

Seriously though, religion is something that is an important part of how a lot of people identify themselves. Sports team, not as much. A 16 year old thinking about going to a school other than the alma mater of their parents is going to struggle far less than a 16 year old thinking of rejecting the faith of their family, friends, community.

maybe i'm weird, but i didn't really discuss my own personal feelings with others. even in small groups settings. i also didn't really have any "issues".

That's why I would not put them into a community that has the "our way or the highway" mentality. If they chose to go another way, there would be no rejection or shame in that. However as an adult I would rather them make the decision on whether they do nor do not believe in a higher power with having experienced full belief in something. I'd be just as happy with them growing up in any spiritual community that did not think those that didn't follow their belief were doomed to some ultimate pushiness. It's just that Christianity is what I know more and would feel more at home in so long as it was a "updated" version of it.

"ultimate pushiness"

My wife and I pretty much fit the discription of the OP.

I understand the point being made based on a sense of community. I worried about that when my kids were very young and if they would be missing something. But they have turned out very well adjusted. They found groups in school that they 'belonged' and they participated in dance, sports, etc. We live in Texas so we are a very small minority of folks that don't go to church. We were often under a good deal of pier pressure (mostly the kids because I DGAF) about not being 'church folks'. I will say this, without any commentary from me or my wife, my kids picked up very quickly on the hypocrisy of kids/families that were the big church goers and how they actually lived their lives and treated others.

Will be in that boat soon. Mrs. Malibu is still a believing and practicing Catholic. I will probably end up doing what my father-in-law did, which is go to mass with family and keep a low profile. My church experience was quite positive, and kids I was in youth group with 15-20 years ago are still my closest friends. I suppose I have some FOMO for my kids, combined with a desire to be a good father and spouse. Love for others to weigh in, especially non-believers with a religious spouse.

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I think that raising a child in a religious community often (maybe not always) has the affect of imposing a superficial religious identity on children before they are old enough to understand the religion at a sufficient enough level to make a rational decision about their faith.

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Who is old enough to make a rational decision about something that is inherently unknowable?

We go to church, but Anglican and agnostic are pretty interchangeable anyway.

Anything uncreated is unknowable / unfathomable / ineffable because it's outside of all creation. Sorry I guess this thread shoulda had an (A) and I'm derailing.

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The churches I went to always felt too much like high school: there was an in-crowd, an out-crowd, and it felt like everyone was judging you at all times.

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I could see that with a large church. The one I grew up in was probably no more than 200 members. The youth church was pretty small and everyone was friends pretty much.

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My experience was the same as this. Small church, small youth groups with no room for cliques. Good group of kids and some of my best times.

I have a feeling I wouldnt have enjoyed being part of a megachurch or even one with 100+ kids in the youth group.

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Anything uncreated is unknowable / unfathomable / ineffable because it's outside of all creation. Sorry I guess this thread shoulda had an (A) and I'm derailing.

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No worries - its not an irrelevant question.

I think my point was clear, even if it was clumsily made. I don't think that any of us know enough to make any rational conclusions about the 'big' questions, but I think that I know enough to know I don't know enough and thus arrive at agnosticism as being a sensible position given the available information. I'm sure that you would say that you know enough to arrive at a theistic position on these big questions based on thousands of years of well thought out philosophy. We may reach different conclusions, but at least you have the knowledge and experience to make a decision grounded in something beyond "Mom and Dad believe in God and so do I."

What does it mean for a 6 year old to say that he/she loves Jesus and believes in God and wants to spend eternity with them? I would argue that it means nothing. . . . other than Mom and Dad wish to encourage one conclusion to the inherently unknowable over another conclusion. And that is their right. No doubt, some posters on here think that it amounts to child abuse for me to tell my 6 year old that there may or may not be a God, that there are a lot of different beliefs, and that I don't necessarily think there is a God. . . .the only thing I think is dangerous is to teach your kids that your conclusions is absolutely and unquestionably right and that all other conclusions amount to heresy or devil worship or some other such nonsense.

It seems like results would vary a lot based on where you live. The only atheist I know who was raised non-religious grew up in Portland, and for her it was never a big deal at all. In my little town in West Texas, not going to church would have killed any hope you had for any kind of social life.

I'm not sure how much the difference in those experience is explained by geography versus the urban/rural difference though. I'd imagine if you were raising a secular kid in most major cities you'd have plenty of social outlets other than church for both parents and the kids. It just seems like there would be plenty of opportunities to have your kids "belong" to plenty of things without the mythology angle being tossed into the mix.

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I was once told by a friend that grew up in Kingwood "I can't imagine how hard it would have been to get laid without my youth group"

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Your friend was a 'youth' when he said that. . . . I hope. . .

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Question for atheist or agnostic parents who grew up going to church. Do you ever think it would be beneficial for your children to grow up in some type of spiritual community as you did?

Seeing all the things I got out of being part of a church throughout my childhood and being close with others in faith I feel that I want my children to experience something at least similar.

Any non believers or agnostics still go to some type of church for their children's benefit (I don't mean for the sake of their salvation or any silliness like that)?

Does anyone have any experience with some more alternative churches? Universalists or the like?

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I don't have kids but if I did this is a question for me.

I was raised in a Christian home going to different denominations (Baptist, Methodist). We went to our local neighborhood churches growing up. I never fit in, as they were clickish and full of the popular kids. So if you weren't popular in school they excluded you from the church activities. Probably one of the main reasons I left church and became agnostic was because I felt like an unwanted outsider. I realize this was 15+ years ago but the scars haven't healed yet.

In college I tried a variety of churches with friends but they were often different and as much as people tried to welcome me they came off kind of creepy.

I often think my ideals and beliefs are Christian, but I don't feel comfortable in most Christian churches. Amazingly I felt the most welcome at a Catholic Church (no way I'm going to convert to Catholicism; but really nice people).

Anyhow as a parent I wouldn't want to subject my kids to what I went through. Yet I don't want them to miss out on the community of a church.

Thankfully no kids or even a boyfriend so I don't have to make a decision anytime soon.

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I don't have kids but if I did this is a question for me.

I was raised in a Christian home going to different denominations (Baptist, Methodist). We went to our local neighborhood churches growing up. I never fit in, as they were clickish and full of the popular kids. So if you weren't popular in school they excluded you from the church activities. Probably one of the main reasons I left church and became agnostic was because I felt like an unwanted outsider. I realize this was 15+ years ago but the scars haven't healed yet.

In college I tried a variety of churches with friends but they were often different and as much as people tried to welcome me they came off kind of creepy.

I often think my ideals and beliefs are Christian, but I don't feel comfortable in most Christian churches. Amazingly I felt the most welcome at a Catholic Church (no way I'm going to convert to Catholicism; but really nice people).

Anyhow as a parent I wouldn't want to subject my kids to what I went through. Yet I don't want them to miss out on the community of a church.

Thankfully no kids or even a boyfriend so I don't have to make a decision anytime soon.

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Why do you say you wouldn't convert to Catholicism? I'm honestly just curious.

Coming from the perspective of someone whose faith is all but destroyed, I was thinking about this yesterday. Ours is only 4 months old though, right now with mom who's at church. It doesn't bother me any if he goes and I'd rather he be happy, attend with faith where instead I doubt and question, and lead a life more like hers than mine anyway. I may attend sometimes, I may not. Not sure yet but it's also unclear whether I will end up in the non-religious bucket or not.

The experience I had growing up was very cliquish until about jr high when the ***holes either quit going or attended at the Baptist Academy where they went to school. Good riddance. At A&M relationships at church were pretty superficial but as a single adult and even now it's the place where I met nearly everyone I know outside of work. I've also been wondering what will happen on my end if I end up in the non-religious camp (outcast? everyone's spiritual fixer-upper project?).

I think the non believers that get the outcast label are the ultra confrontational 'Debate Me, I'm an Atheist' types. And I think that those that become fixer uppers are the ones who waiver in their convictions or don't do a good job vocalizing their positions. I think if you are a decent person, decent individuals will accept you regardless of your beliefs.

If I can ask a personal question - how religious is your wife and what is her opinion of your current state of belief?

I grew up in small Baptist churches. Hated going to church. Guilt trips, money grubbing, hypocrites. I did not and would not subject my children to that.